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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by JBpatches View Post
    Anyone with a Brewers avatar and Ryan Braun banner will not have an unbiased opinion about this.

    He's a cheater.
    At this point he's a cheater like you are a murderer. If one has not been convicted of anything, then a label shouldn't be applied. That goes for Braun, Gio, etc etc.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JBpatches View Post
    Anyone with a Brewers avatar and Ryan Braun banner will not have an unbiased opinion about this.

    He's a cheater.
    Absolutely incorrect. As a Ryan Braun fan, I'd bet my house that I've done more research/reading about his case, and the testing process + chain of custody than you. And the more I read, the more inconsistencies I found with the accusations that were made public.

    You are part of the problem, to be honest. You are so quick to pass judgement based on a few blurbs on some internet site. Shyam Das, a man that is well respected in professional sports, one that had the facts germane to the appeal, and not just the wild speculation and fabrications, decided that Braun's team were able to prove his innocence. Yet you're so sure "he's guilty" based on....what? Because some idiot on ESPN.com said so?

    The source of the "leak" has never been made public. The opinion from Das has never been published. And the binding arbitration has prevented Braun from speaking in detail as to what really happened. But you're sure he's guilty when you don't have anything to support your opinion.

    Please.

    If something comes out that is irrefutable, then I'll accept it. But I'm not going to condemn the man based on a hunch.
    Collecting pre-war, vintage and modern baseball cards.
    Currently working on the T206 set, 1975 Topps, master collections of Roberto Clemente and Robin Yount.

  3. #23
    Amen Lambeau and mo, funny comparison.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by lambeausouth View Post
    Oh waaaaaa. The only thing older than Ray Lewis' schtick are Matt Kemp fans complaining about him not winning the MVP. Get over it.

    I'd rather defend my player for not winning the MVP then defending him for doping twice. Bonds denied it too and was never found guilty but is he in the HoF? Nope he took the dope!
    They are cheaters deal with it.
    Last edited by Bisonx28; 02-06-2013 at 02:39 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmo1979 View Post
    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...97882/35087627

    A point can be made it wasn;t his inner circle that 'leaked' it - but no one else has been ratted out before or since so I put the blame squarely on his legal team
    Well, that's true. Nobody has ever been "ratted out" before. How are we to know that it wasn't some new employee at the lab handing the tests, or an employee involved with the appeal working for MLB, that didn't "leak" the story? Somebody that never previously had the opportunity to do something like this? That's why chain of custody is so important. Things like that aren't supposed to happen. Braun's name is supposed to be replaced by a number so nobody can see it's him being tested. If chain of custody is broken, leaks happen. Samples get compromised. That's why his win wasn't just some dumb "technicality". It was science.

    Why would a member of Braun's team risk leaking the story? Again, I ask you, what possible benefit could there be?

    If Braun wins the appeal, and an investigation into the leak determines a member of his team were responsible...that would be grounds for having the appeal overturned. So all that money spent and work is for nothing. Braun's reputation is still trashed because the process was made public.

    Leaking the failed test in no way benefits Braun. No matter the outcome, Braun's reputation is irrevocably tarnished. It makes no sense that a member of his team would do that.
    Collecting pre-war, vintage and modern baseball cards.
    Currently working on the T206 set, 1975 Topps, master collections of Roberto Clemente and Robin Yount.

  6. #26
    It's terrible when athletes turn out to be liars, cheaters and con-men. Braun and all of the other PED-users should be ashamed of themselves.

    Everyone outside of Milwaukee knows he's a cheater, and everyone in Milwaukee is delusional.

    But I get it. It sucks to have your favorite player turn out to be a cheater and you don't want to face the truth; still trying to hold onto the memory of someone children could look up to.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JBpatches View Post
    It's terrible when athletes turn out to be liars, cheaters and con-men. Braun and all of the other PED-users should be ashamed of themselves.

    Everyone outside of Milwaukee knows he's a cheater, and everyone in Milwaukee is delusional.

    But I get it. It sucks to have your favorite player turn out to be a cheater and you don't want to face the truth; still trying to hold onto the memory of someone children could look up to.
    +1!

  8. #28
    Thats precisely my point. Someone on brauns team was a flaming moron. His test was leaked by their actions and then they hire a sleezy doc as a consultant ( or so the story goes)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant #88 View Post
    I'd rather defend my player for not winning the MVP then defending him for doping twice.
    He's a cheat deal with it.
    Doping twice? How obtuse can you be?

    Did you read his public statement? He said his defense team consulted with him while preparing his appeal. There's no mention of Braun using a single PED, or other substance, in any of the paperwork that's been discovered. None. Other players...ARod, Melky Cabrera, Nelson Cruz, have been specifically listed with substances. Braun's name appeared once (alongside his attorney) with an amount owed that was 10 x the amount of any other players owed. So unless Braun AND his attorney are running up massive bills for performance enhancers, something else is going on. $20-30k would be an amount an athlete would pay for a retainer and expert testimony. It's a plausible explanation as to why his name is on the list. I provided a statement from another person on that page, one with zero known links to illegal supplements, that would seem to support what I'm saying. Yet you don't want to hear it. Your mind is made up. You're covering your ears going "blah blah blah, Braun is guilty" instead of considering that what he's saying could be the truth.

    As far as the MVP debate goes, there is none. Braun won in a landslide. You think I'm biased as a Braun fan? You sound like a jilted Matt Kemp fanboy that more than a year later cannot accept the fact that your boy lost, and your opinion of Braun is tainted because he's the one that beat Kemp.

    Funny that you're so sure that Braun is using, yet your boy Kemp, who has NEVER put up numbers anywhere near the ones he put up in 2011, is already seeing his body break down. Braun, on the other hand, while being tested left and right after his questionable sample, had a better season than his MVP season of 2011.

    If anybody raises suspicion, it's not Ryan Braun. It's Matt Kemp. Guy has an .808 career OPS the first 5 seasons he's in the bigs, then out of the blue his OPS is near 1.000. Then after his huge season, he's getting injured left and right. Hmm, wonder why....
    Last edited by the 'stache; 02-06-2013 at 03:13 AM.
    Collecting pre-war, vintage and modern baseball cards.
    Currently working on the T206 set, 1975 Topps, master collections of Roberto Clemente and Robin Yount.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JBpatches View Post
    It's terrible when athletes turn out to be liars, cheaters and con-men. Braun and all of the other PED-users should be ashamed of themselves.

    Everyone outside of Milwaukee knows he's a cheater, and everyone in Milwaukee is delusional.

    But I get it. It sucks to have your favorite player turn out to be a cheater and you don't want to face the truth; still trying to hold onto the memory of someone children could look up to.
    Let me ask you something. Are you saying it's completely beyond the realm of possibility that a biological sample's test result can be wrong? From the time Braun peed in his cup, and it sat on some guy's countertop for two days, and then sat at the lab, it's completely impossible that the sample was contaminated, or mixed up? Because if you can tell me without a shadow of a doubt that his sample was 100% accurate, then I'll tell you that you're talking out of your rear end. Human beings make mistakes. There are known cases in professional sports where a sample seemed to indict an athlete, and only after was it made public that the sample was mishandled.

    I'm not a Brewer fan homer, sorry. When the news broke that he'd failed a test, I read everything I could about it (did you? Or did you just say "hey, it's on ESPN, so it has to be right!). I watched as the story changed from "Braun tests positive for PED" to "Braun had elevated testosterone levels", then it was "Braun tested positive because of herpes medication". Then the story was "Braun did not test positive for a PED, but a banned substance". Then he won his appeal. Of course it was because of a *technicality (which demonstrates a complete ignorance of why biological samples have to be handled in a certain way, and if they are not, any testing of said samples cannot be considered accurate). ESPN and a few other sports media sites were throwing one thing against a wall after another, hoping something would stick.

    Even after Braun won his appeal, something that has never happened before, people still wanted to label him a cheater. Have you any idea just how impossible getting a suspension overturned is? Do you grasp at all just how incredible the odds he faced were? Shyam Das is a lot smarter than you or I, at least where this whole testing process is concerned. He's spent years keeping up with the scientific specifics of how the testing is done, and Braun's defense team presented evidence that his test was screwed up. They were able to take clean samples, subject them to the same conditions, and replicate the elevated testosterone levels. How do you explain that? "Oh ya, Braun is a cheater, just accept it, even though I have NOTHING to support what I'm saying".

    Hate to break it to you. Until he is proven guilty of cheating, it's not "everybody outside of Wisconsin knows he is guilty, and everybody in Wisconsin is fooling themselves". Sorry, that's not how it works.

    You, and others on this forum, are so quick to convict him based off of a paragraph on Yahoo Sports. What does that say about you?

    I'll wait until the proof comes out. If you want to condemn him because his name is written in pencil on a piece of notebook paper.....I laugh at you. And just a fyi, I would adopt the same line of thinking for anybody else, Brewer or not.
    Last edited by the 'stache; 02-06-2013 at 03:19 AM.
    Collecting pre-war, vintage and modern baseball cards.
    Currently working on the T206 set, 1975 Topps, master collections of Roberto Clemente and Robin Yount.

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