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  1. #101
    Amazing to me what constitutes "solid evidence" to some people. Braun (and his attorney) already came out and said that his defense team was approached by Bosch. And the point has already been made that Braun's camp disagreed with the amount of money owed to him for his contribution, which was deemed negligible.

    Yet his name being written in pencil on two pieces of paper ripped out of a little $1.50 notebook is concrete evidence that he's a cheater? LOL.

    Look, I know there's a good possibility he used something. But his suspension for 50 games was going to be for an illegal substance, not for a PED. It was made CLEAR that Braun did not test positive for a performance enhancer. That doesn't make it any better really, and I don't care if it was a mistake or not. If he did something that MLB prohibits, he should be punished. But the whole basis for everybody's "he's a cheater" claims are his name on two pieces of paper, and a suspension which he was able to have overturned.

    I pray to God none of you are ever accused of a crime, and convicted on "evidence" this flimsy.
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  2. #102
    I wonder if any of you have read about the case of Diane Modhal, the Olympic track and field star from England that was suspended from competition for displaying abnormally high levels of testosterone (the same thing that has happened to Braun). Modhal's defense team were able to prove that the lab incorrectly stored the sample, and their storage caused the degradation of the biological sample.

    Well, in Braun's case, his sample was left out on a counter top for two days in a Tupperware container. And the sample, when tested at the lab, showed T levels 30:1, way higher than any test result in history (4 times as much). Yet all of you completely exclude from the realm of possibility that the high testosterone level could have been caused by a screw up. You're all convinced that he's guilty, and laugh off his completely plausible explanation as lies.

    If he were innocent, what could he possibly say to convince any of you to that effect? You've all made up your minds, and seem to take great joy from each new incident where his name is included.

    Has any document been presented showing "Ryan Braun owes $1,500 for ______ medication"? Any notes showing that Braun uses a particular banned substance?

    If anything is funny, it's ESPN's "reporting". They were the ones to break the story on Braun, and when he had his suspension overturned, they got egg on their faces. Now they are trying to do anything they can to save face.

    If I were a prosecuting attorney, and had any of your wives or girlfriends arrested, and charged with use of an illegal substance, and had this same "evidence", you'd all raise hell. But because it's a baseball player, well that ought to be hung!
    Last edited by the 'stache; 02-16-2013 at 03:15 AM.
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    I will treat all SCF members with respect. I ask that you please do the same.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by lambeausouth View Post
    Amazing to me what constitutes "solid evidence" to some people. Braun (and his attorney) already came out and said that his defense team was approached by Bosch. And the point has already been made that Braun's camp disagreed with the amount of money owed to him for his contribution, which was deemed negligible.

    Yet his name being written in pencil on two pieces of paper ripped out of a little $1.50 notebook is concrete evidence that he's a cheater? LOL.

    Look, I know there's a good possibility he used something. But his suspension for 50 games was going to be for an illegal substance, not for a PED. It was made CLEAR that Braun did not test positive for a performance enhancer. That doesn't make it any better really, and I don't care if it was a mistake or not. If he did something that MLB prohibits, he should be punished. But the whole basis for everybody's "he's a cheater" claims are his name on two pieces of paper, and a suspension which he was able to have overturned.

    I pray to God none of you are ever accused of a crime, and convicted on "evidence" this flimsy.
    By evidence that is flimsy, you mean the drug test he failed and got off on because of a technicality?
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by gladdyontherise View Post
    By evidence that is flimsy, you mean the drug test he failed and got off on because of a technicality?
    Do you ever get tired of parroting the same meme? I gave you more credit than the stooges like NY Sports Teams. Was I wrong?

    If I piss in a container that is sealed, and it sits out at room temperature on a table in some guy's basement for two days, the sample was not stored the way it was supposed to be. The Players Union, and Major League Baseball, haggled over specific guidelines on how collected biological samples were to be stored because they knew if the storage was screwed up, something specifically like this could happen.

    When the testosterone levels are off the chart because the sample was allowed to degrade, it's not a God damned "technicality". The collector screwed up. I don't give a flip about what time he collected the piss sample, or if it was inconvenient for him to drive a couple extra miles to drop it off at an approved facility, with approved storage conditions. Once he did not do his job properly, the sample was no good, and no testing on an invalid sample is valid. The results will never be accurate. And his contention that there were no fed Ex facilities within 50 miles is patently false.

    Per Braun in his press conference:

    There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at.

    Then, on the Monday after the sample was collected, he didn't go in to Fed Ex until 1:30 PM. What was he doing that precluded him from being at Fed Ex to deliver his package at 8 am when it opened?

    Why can you not friggin' get how important proper transport of his sample was? Did you fail basic chemistry in high school? Urine cannot sit out at room temperature for two plus days. Piss is not inert. The fluid in the sample, as it heats, will evaporate. The ph in urine will change. There is cellular degradation, meaning bacteria is created after 8-10 hours if not refrigerated. The collector in his statement admitted that Braun's sample was not refrigerated. It sat in a Tupperware container for 44 hours. link

    Immediately upon arriving home, I placed the FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples.

    It blows my mind how obtuse some of the people on this forum are.

    Believe what you want. I'm done arguing with people that have their minds made up.
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    Hi, I'm Bill. Cheesehead by birth. Packer and Brewer fanatic by choice.
    I will treat all SCF members with respect. I ask that you please do the same.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by lambeausouth View Post
    Amazing to me what constitutes "solid evidence" to some people. Braun (and his attorney) already came out and said that his defense team was approached by Bosch. And the point has already been made that Braun's camp disagreed with the amount of money owed to him for his contribution, which was deemed negligible.

    Yet his name being written in pencil on two pieces of paper ripped out of a little $1.50 notebook is concrete evidence that he's a cheater? LOL.

    Look, I know there's a good possibility he used something. But his suspension for 50 games was going to be for an illegal substance, not for a PED. It was made CLEAR that Braun did not test positive for a performance enhancer. That doesn't make it any better really, and I don't care if it was a mistake or not. If he did something that MLB prohibits, he should be punished. But the whole basis for everybody's "he's a cheater" claims are his name on two pieces of paper, and a suspension which he was able to have overturned.

    I pray to God none of you are ever accused of a crime, and convicted on "evidence" this flimsy.
    Quote Originally Posted by lambeausouth View Post
    I wonder if any of you have read about the case of Diane Modhal, the Olympic track and field star from England that was suspended from competition for displaying abnormally high levels of testosterone (the same thing that has happened to Braun). Modhal's defense team were able to prove that the lab incorrectly stored the sample, and their storage caused the degradation of the biological sample.

    Well, in Braun's case, his sample was left out on a counter top for two days in a Tupperware container. And the sample, when tested at the lab, showed T levels 30:1, way higher than any test result in history (4 times as much). Yet all of you completely exclude from the realm of possibility that the high testosterone level could have been caused by a screw up. You're all convinced that he's guilty, and laugh off his completely plausible explanation as lies.

    If he were innocent, what could he possibly say to convince any of you to that effect? You've all made up your minds, and seem to take great joy from each new incident where his name is included.

    Has any document been presented showing "Ryan Braun owes $1,500 for ______ medication"? Any notes showing that Braun uses a particular banned substance?

    If anything is funny, it's ESPN's "reporting". They were the ones to break the story on Braun, and when he had his suspension overturned, they got egg on their faces. Now they are trying to do anything they can to save face.

    If I were a prosecuting attorney, and had any of your wives or girlfriends arrested, and charged with use of an illegal substance, and had this same "evidence", you'd all raise hell. But because it's a baseball player, well that ™™™™™™™ ought to be hung!
    Quote Originally Posted by lambeausouth View Post
    Do you ever get tired of parroting the same meme? I gave you more credit than the stooges like NY Sports Teams. Was I wrong?

    If I piss in a container that is sealed, and it sits out at room temperature on a table in some guy's basement for two days, the sample was not stored the way it was supposed to be. The Players Union, and Major League Baseball, haggled over specific guidelines on how collected biological samples were to be stored because they knew if the storage was screwed up, something specifically like this could happen.

    When the testosterone levels are off the chart because the sample was allowed to degrade, it's not a God damned "technicality". The collector screwed up. I don't give a flip about what time he collected the piss sample, or if it was inconvenient for him to drive a couple extra miles to drop it off at an approved facility, with approved storage conditions. Once he did not do his job properly, the sample was no good, and no testing on an invalid sample is valid. The results will never be accurate. And his contention that there were no fed Ex facilities within 50 miles is patently false.

    Per Braun in his press conference:

    There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at.

    Then, on the Monday after the sample was collected, he didn't go in to Fed Ex until 1:30 PM. What was he doing that precluded him from being at Fed Ex to deliver his package at 8 am when it opened?

    Why can you not friggin' get how important proper transport of his sample was? Did you fail basic chemistry in high school? Urine cannot sit out at room temperature for two plus days. Piss is not inert. The fluid in the sample, as it heats, will evaporate. The ph in urine will change. There is cellular degradation, meaning bacteria is created after 8-10 hours if not refrigerated. The collector in his statement admitted that Braun's sample was not refrigerated. It sat in a Tupperware container for 44 hours. link

    Immediately upon arriving home, I placed the FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples.

    It blows my mind how obtuse some of the people on this forum are.

    Believe what you want. I'm done arguing with people that have their minds made up.
    To sum all this up for those of you that don't want to read this...

    All the evidence and failed drug test means nothing, Ryan Braun is innocent because I want him to be. Therefore, you are all wrong.
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  6. #106
    There is a difference between reality and wishful thinking. If Braun wasn't a Brewer, I bet you would've crucified him just like the rest of us.

  7. #107
    11 pages worth,really who cares.If he were to be found guilty no big deal,sit your 50 games and come back as if nothing happened.At least lambeausouth has presented his argument based on facts,which is alot more than the rest of you people are doing.
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  8. #108
    Lets get something straight. The testing in baseball is not all about illegal substances or PEDs. This is the science; the average male has a 1:1 ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone. When the ratio spikes above 4:1, it is grounds for a suspension. Braun's test was WAY over the 4:1 ratio and got off because the delivery guy took two days to deliver his test. Research it, there was no tampering with the bottle, everyone said there is NO way his testosterone could magically rise, so he got off on a technicality. Again they don't care if the substance in your system is banned or not.

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  9. #109
    There is nothing that can be said that would change Braunoid's fans as to his guilt just as there is nothing that would change my mind believing he is a cheater.

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  10. #110
    I'd love to see if Braun was a Yankee. Every Brewer fan in the country would absolutely kill him.

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