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  1. #51
    [QUOTE=shrewsbury;12504496]so is the idea of owning guns only for the purpose of fighting our own soldiers or an invading army? Because, besides this and just for fun there is really no need for 20-30 round clips. if this is the case we should have access to better stuff, because we are not going to be stopping tanks, jets, and the like with these weapons.


    If people want access to better stuff, they can obtain Class III licenses. A guy that lives down the road from me has a tank in his barn. It's "decommissioned"... He still has the firing mechanism to install to make it fully operable. Class III licenses are relatively tough to obtain. You have to go through ATF with paperwork, thorough background check and pay I believe is $2,500. Also, besides paying 2500, a yearly fee is applied as well. Fully automatic machine guns like the M16 can get high in price. Up to $20k. So yes, we do have access to "better stuff", you just have to give an arm and a leg for it. And be heavily watched and regulated by ATF.
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution" - John Adams, March 4, 1797 March 4, 1801

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    so is the idea of owning guns only for the purpose of fighting our own soldiers or an invading army? Because, besides this and just for fun there is really no need for 20-30 round clips. if this is the case we should have access to better stuff, because we are not going to be stopping tanks, jets, and the like with these weapons.

    then how about wickabee's question on what is safe? and add to that safe against what? storing a gun safely could mean to not put it under my pillow with the safety off, that's not safe. not leaving it on the hood of my car all night, it could mean disassembling it and stashing the parts all over before i leave home, or it could mean putting it in a safe that is so large no one could steal it and has a high rating so it is hard to break into it.

    my issue here is, we are required to have car insurance, but never ave to show proof unless you are committing a crime. even when you renew your DL or get new tags, you only check a box. why would they have these types of searches on a whim but not require to check for insurance unless you commit a crime?

    also at what age would a child have to be for a parent to leave a gun out when the child was home alone?

    might surprise you,

    but how about 11 years old?

    http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/201...th-pink-rifle/

    maybe 12?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1992381.html

    or maybe even 10?

    http://www.wafb.com/story/10741492/c...edirected=true
    Wasn't aware of that. Up here when the cops pull you over they ask for licence, registration and proof of insurance. We are not allowed to drive without basic liability insurance.
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  3. #53
    habs, if you are pulled over it is because you are being accused of a crime, so yes you have to show proof of insurance.

    but when you renew your drivers license or get new tags you do not have to show proof.
    so why should I have to show proof that my gun/guns are secured safely unless I am committing a crime or a victim of a crime?
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  4. #54


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    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    habs, if you are pulled over it is because you are being accused of a crime, so yes you have to show proof of insurance.

    but when you renew your drivers license or get new tags you do not have to show proof.
    so why should I have to show proof that my gun/guns are secured safely unless I am committing a crime or a victim of a crime?
    I almost agree with you. You shouldn't have to prove it until your gun is accused of a crime.

    I know someone is going to come in here saying I'm blaming guns for crime. I'll explain now so that person can look like an idiot.

    Some will see this as semantics, but written law is semantics. As you've put it, if you get accused of petty theft, they come in regardless of the fact that no gun was used. Also, as you've put it, if your gun is used by someone else in a crime, how you stored it is of no consequence.

    So I would say if your gun is found to have been used in a crime your house is immediately inspected. Though for what I don't know, since safely and securely isn't defined.

  5. #55
    NY state has a law in place since 1/14/13 that is virtually the same as the perposed one you had started this thread with! On the29th NY state has to show how the law is not unconstitutional.
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  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by habsheaven View Post
    Are you okay with a gun owner keeping his guns in his unlocked bedroom closet with his ammo in the nightstand beside the bed while he goes off to work during the day leaving his wife and three kids at home? Should there not be a law stating that this is unacceptable? I would have thought every jurisdiction already had laws such as this concerning "safe gun storage".
    I would absolutely, 100% want my wife and kids to be able to access my guns (or theirs) if I wasn't home. I can't think of anything that would be more horrible than to come home and find my family ravaged, raped or murdered because the guns were locked away and inaccessible to them. The assumption that a woman or someone under 18 is incapable of properly using a firearm is entirely incorrect and unsupportable.

    Quote Originally Posted by FioreSA View Post
    I still stand by my comment about switzerland who had a lower murder rate than even the UK and has more guns per person than almost any in country if not the most. They also allow automatic weaponery and were what the 5th lowest murder rate by guns?

    something about knowing that everyone is armed, makes oppurtunistic people think twice.
    That is essentially the situation in my home state of WV. Anyone without a criminal record or mental disorder that legally owns a handgun can obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon. In my area they post the names and city in the newspaper of everyone who is issued a permit for that permit issuing period. It is a nice little reminder that anybody you mess with might be packing.

    Between 2001 and 2008 we had just 135 violent crimes reported. I can't find any data for the last 4 years, but I know we rarely have a murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    That's interesting. How much is their murder rate?
    Oddly I can't find anything on their murder rate. I did however find an article that discussed how 10 years after Australia increased gun control laws and had a big gun buy-back to reduce guns in the country the gun violence rate was slightly higher than it was before their increase gun control laws.

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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by duane1969 View Post
    I would absolutely, 100% want my wife and kids to be able to access my guns (or theirs) if I wasn't home. I can't think of anything that would be more horrible than to come home and find my family ravaged, raped or murdered because the guns were locked away and inaccessible to them. The assumption that a woman or someone under 18 is incapable of properly using a firearm is entirely incorrect and unsupportable.
    I will just respond with this:

    When researchers studied the 30,000 accidental gun deaths of Americans of all ages that occurred between 1979-1997, they found that preschoolers aged 0-4 were 17 times more likely to die from a gun accident in the 4 states with the most guns versus the 4 states with the least guns. Likewise, school kids aged 5-14 were over 13 times more at risk of accidental firearm death in the states with high gun ownership rates. The findings indicate that gun availability is associated with accidental death by shooting.

    I doubt much has changed in these numbers but I couldn't find anything more recent. Good to see you do not believe in locking up your weapons. Hopefully you never have to learn the ridiculousness of this the hard way like so many others have.
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  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by habsheaven View Post
    I will just respond with this:

    When researchers studied the 30,000 accidental gun deaths of Americans of all ages that occurred between 1979-1997, they found that preschoolers aged 0-4 were 17 times more likely to die from a gun accident in the 4 states with the most guns versus the 4 states with the least guns. Likewise, school kids aged 5-14 were over 13 times more at risk of accidental firearm death in the states with high gun ownership rates. The findings indicate that gun availability is associated with accidental death by shooting.

    I doubt much has changed in these numbers but I couldn't find anything more recent. Good to see you do not believe in locking up your weapons. Hopefully you never have to learn the ridiculousness of this the hard way like so many others have.
    If I had a pre-schooler age 0-4 I would be more concerned. My kids are 17 and 11 and both mature and responsible enough to know not to mess with guns in an unsafe manner.

    Accidental gun deaths for kids is almost always associated with kids who were not properly educated on gun safety, guns not being toys and how dangerous guns are. My kids are all accomplished shooters and fully trained in gun safety.

    The only thing that is ridiculous is the liberal idea that if someone is around guns then they are automatically in danger.
    Last edited by duane1969; 04-21-2013 at 03:41 PM.

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  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by duane1969 View Post
    If I had a pre-schooler age 0-4 I would be more concerned. My kids are 17 and 11 and both mature and responsible enough to know not to mess with guns in an unsafe manner.

    Accidental gun deaths for kids is almost always associated with kids who were not properly educated on gun safety, guns not being toys and how dangerous guns are. My kids are all accomplished shooters and fully trained in gun safety.

    The only thing that is ridiculous is the liberal idea that if someone is around guns then they are automatically in danger.
    You obviously had a pre-schooler at some point. Are you qualifying your early comment now to mean people should have their guns locked up until their kids are old enough to be fully trained? Or should the mother of two toddlers still have quick and easy access to her guns? Which is it? Locked up and safe 24 hours a day, or easy access 24 hours a day just in case?
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  10. #60
    When my kids were younger my guns were in a secure location where my small children could not get them, but they were still accessible to my wife if she need them.

    Being able to access them does not necessarily mean easy to get. Your position that guns are either locked away or easy to get with no middle ground is ludicrous. This anti-gun nut idea that if guns are not secured in a locked maximum security vault with motion sensors, armed guards and a moat around them then kids will get them and go on murderous killing sprees is just ridiculous. If you libs trust your kids so little that you fear them then I pity you.

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