separation of church and state

[shrewsbury]

it's an educated guess

[Star_Cards]

Ask alex. In science, theories are facts and hypotheses are theories.

yes, but that doesn't mean who evolution is taught in schools. Do people actually know it's being presented as a 100% truth? It wasn't when I was in school.

[Wickabee]

yes, but that doesn't mean who evolution is taught in schools. Do people actually know it's being presented as a 100% truth? It wasn't when I was in school.

Depended on the teacher when I was in school.

[shrewsbury]

I for one have an equally large grin on my face when either someone is stating facts about human evolution or creationism or intelligent design or Genesis.

or when someone says they have proof of god or proof that there is no god.

equality is equality and trying to give science an edge over religion, or religion an edge over science in no more equal than giving race an edge over social class, or gender an edge over age, it makes no sense.

the sciences are awesome and should be taught for all they are worth and constantly updated to reflect new finding, theories, and hypothesis.
but religion is awesome as well and should be explored for all that they are not just shunned because of the way they have been used by some throughout time.
religion has been there since the beginning and to think it does not play an important role is just playing it short, there is a reason why it is so old and why so many believe, and the reason is not stupidity, fear, or lack of education.

[drtom2005]

Yes, however, how many "most likely theories" over the years have been proven false? The fact is, Jay is right, there is very little evidence on the grand scale. Teaching something as "fact" when it's "the most likely theory" is any better?
It ends with people jumping up and down claiming evolution as currently laid out by the scientific community is the only possibility and the evidence we have supporting is is in no way actually evidence of something even larger, like alex.
The fact remains that, while there is more proof for this theory than any other, that does not make it fact. It simply makes it the accepted theory. But that seems to be enough to teach it as fact? There is enough eveidence that much of the Bible is true history, but that's wrong to teach because of the book it comes from. There is not enough evidence to call evolution the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, yet we teach kids that it is anyway.
To me, that's a double standard.


In actuality, you're probably right. However, I see it more as "If you're going to teach evolution, which is accepted and not fully proven, you should teach creationism as there are enough things in the Bible proven true to think it could be right about this too," but I doubt those who are fighting this fight think like I do.

Wickabee, based on this series of statements how do you know anything? I guess you do not believe antibiotics work because they fail sometimes? Brakes on cars do not work because they fail sometimes? Do you trust your doctor with your health because doctors fail sometimes? You are trying to apply a standard to evolution that you do not accept in everyday life because it does not fit your religious views.

[shrewsbury]

tom, it is more like finding a piece of what may be a Roman coin in your backyard and claiming there must have been a Roman settlement there. when in fact there is just as much chance that the last person who owned your home buried it there, or a traveler from the past dropped it there, or it is not Roman at all. Now you have rewriiten history based on a single find of a single piece of something that may or may not be a roman coin.

o.tungenesis, 6 million years = 1 fossil
ardi, 4.4 million years = 17 fossils
anamesis, 4.1 million years, 1 fossil
anamesis, 4 million years, 1 fossil
afarensis, 3.6 million years, fossilized footprints, no fossils

so in 2.5 million years we have 20 fossils and this is the basis for proof of human evolution? no, but nothing wrong with an educated guess, until is is presented as fact.

[Wickabee]

Wickabee, based on this series of statements how do you know anything? I guess you do not believe antibiotics work because they fail sometimes? Brakes on cars do not work because they fail sometimes? Do you trust your doctor with your health because doctors fail sometimes? You are trying to apply a standard to evolution that you do not accept in everyday life because it does not fit your religious views.

First, I'm going to ask you what my religious views are. As far as I know, I have zero connection to religion, but please enlighten me.

Second, that's not what I've said at all. I'm saying something shouldn't be taught as fact. 2+2=4 is a fact. Evolution is an educated guess that gets peddled as absolute fact. I'm not even certain what you're on about, honestly.

[Star_Cards]

First, I'm going to ask you what my religious views are. As far as I know, I have zero connection to religion, but please enlighten me.

Second, that's not what I've said at all. I'm saying something shouldn't be taught as fact. 2+2=4 is a fact. Evolution is an educated guess that gets peddled as absolute fact. I'm not even certain what you're on about, honestly.

I still don't know that evolution is actually being taught as fact.

[Wickabee]

I still don't know that evolution is actually being taught as fact.

Like I said before, it depends on the teacher. The majority of my teachers said "Now, people will try to tell you evolution isn't a fact because it's not proven. This is wrong. It is a fact and is proven" or something along those lines. A few went with the reality that it's a discovery in process, but the overall theme was "it's right, don't question it, only build on it."

I'd link you to my high school experiences, but I'm not certain how to copy/paste memories.

[drtom2005]

First, I'm going to ask you what my religious views are. As far as I know, I have zero connection to religion, but please enlighten me.

Second, that's not what I've said at all. I'm saying something shouldn't be taught as fact. 2+2=4 is a fact. Evolution is an educated guess that gets peddled as absolute fact. I'm not even certain what you're on about, honestly.

The fact that antibiotics will work is an educated guess. The fact that your brakes will work is an educated guess. Evolution has more evidence then those assumptions, so it is absolute fact just like the assumption that your brakes will work when you drive a car.