Which act would be considered more immoral

[drtom2005]

As long as he believes one sin makes a sinner, he's not going to listen.

One sin makes a sinner as much as one poem makes a poet or one picture makes a photographer.

I have been following along and your analogy makes the most sense so far. My question is who decides when you become a sinner? If you believe in God, then God. If you do not , then society makes the rules.
My point is where is the cut off?
When do people become sinners?
Humans should not judge the actions of others unless it is a big deal such as stealing. If people believe in a God it is not their place to tell them they are wrong.
God makes the decision or society(depending on your belief system).

[shrewsbury]

alex, maybe uneducated Christians, or hardcore followers of the church (not that they are the same in any way), but not all followers of Jesus, which by default are called Christians.

The facts of beliefs are quite different not only in the religion and denominations, but church to church, and person to person. the things you share can vary and you can often find yourself in odds with those in your own church or in agreement with those you thought you could never agree with. religion is always changing and growing, it is not stale or stifled. Your faith, belief, and understanding is always growing and altered by this growth.

you cannot listen to someone talk or read a book to instantly know it, you cannot learn it in a class or over a few years, it is a life work.

[JustAlex]

Every time I've explained a passage you claim shows Christianity for something sinister you leave change topics and focus on other people.

How many topics did we discuss on here?

Sin, immorality, sex, lust, the bible and it's infallibility, how god perceives sins, etc.

I answered as best as I could.

And not only that, I provided PROOF for my assertions (quotes from the bible).

I didn't see your side doing any quoting of the HOLY BIBLE....why not?

Could it be because you will not find what you presume?

C'mon Wick, you know what I like.....evidence!

I provided evidence.....where's yours?

[JustAlex]

alex, maybe uneducated Christians, or hardcore followers of the church (not that they are the same in any way), but not all followers of Jesus, which by default are called Christians.

Sorry Shrew, but you and I are on two different wavelengths.

The truth is, I really don't care for non-religious people that like Jesus (I guess you and Wickabee fall into this category?).

BTW, when I say "I don't care" what I mean is that your type doesn't bother me.

I'm here to discuss religious theists not non-religious theists.

And religious theists (the majority anyways) DO claim that the bible is literal fact and infallible.

If you don't like that, then join me (I'm serious this time) in opposition to their fanaticism and dogmatic nonsense they spew.

Don't stay quiet!

Say something....speak out against them and tell them that they are wrong, explain it in a logical way.

Remember, I am not an enemy of religious people, I am an enemy of religion.

[Wickabee]

Sorry Shrew, but you and I are on two different wavelengths.

The truth is, I really don't care for non-religious people that like Jesus (I guess you and Wickabee fall into this category?).

BTW, when I say "I don't care" what I mean is that your type doesn't bother me.

I'm here to discuss religious theists not non-religious theists.

And religious theists (the majority anyways) DO claim that the bible is literal fact and infallible.

If you don't like that, then join me (I'm serious this time) in opposition to their fanaticism and dogmatic nonsense they spew.

Don't stay quiet!

Say something....speak out against them and tell them that they are wrong, explain it in a logical way.

Remember, I am not an enemy of religious people, I am an enemy of religion.

You know, it's smart to learn as much as you can about your enemy. You should start doing that.

[ajcorleone]

Alex i don't know what you are.You go in so many directions I just figured you are confused.Which your points prove and there is plenty of EVIDENCE when you write.

Wrong!

Wickabee isn't bringing anything up. He is simply telling me that I don't understand and I'm only looking at christianity in an "Atheist dogma" type manner (whatever the hell that means) and he didn't specifically bring any of my points up.


OK, now this one is a specific point which Shrew is bringing up.

Unfortunately for shrew, he is WRONG....or at least he's in the minority.

The Bible in the christian religion is the ultimate guide, and must be followed, saying that Jesus didn't say that one has to follow the NT makes absolutely no sense.

The majority of Christians follow the bible as literal fact.....it is not my fault when I bring up very strict rules that the bible has and then I point this out to christians.

If christians don't like these strict rules, why did they join in the first place?

Thank god I'm not a christian, right AJ?

[maccards44]

Good old fashioned 'christian contradiction'

the Bible is infallible. The writers were overcame with the Holy Spirit to have the knowledge to write the books... God DID infact write the Bible.

I don't agree with everything the church says. Some of it is completely hypocritical.

Let's see here...."infallible" "written by god" ... and "completely hypocritical" -- and that's what the BELIEVERS say!
It makes me laugh that the majority of christians seem to feel that way (the first way, the written-by-god way)

The bible was written by MEN, interepreted by other MEN, translated from other languages by still other MEN, etc etc etc.
It gives a ton of great rules that makes life wonderful, love your neighbor, be good to other people, etc. But it also has been interepted to mean.. loosely...
KILL ANYONE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN YOU!!! LIKE NOW!!! (you'll go to heaven... it's nice really)

It's the infallible my-way-or-the-highway(to hell) attitude that most non-believers have an issue with...and they should it's rediculous.
I think that's what Alex is driving at with ALL THESE posts? maybe?

[Wickabee]

Good old fashioned 'christian contradiction'





Let's see here...."infallible" "written by god" ... and "completely hypocritical" -- and that's what the BELIEVERS say!
It makes me laugh that the majority of christians seem to feel that way (the first way, the written-by-god way)

The bible was written by MEN, interepreted by other MEN, translated from other languages by still other MEN, etc etc etc.
It gives a ton of great rules that makes life wonderful, love your neighbor, be good to other people, etc. But it also has been interepted to mean.. loosely...
KILL ANYONE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN YOU!!! LIKE NOW!!! (you'll go to heaven... it's nice really)

It's the infallible my-way-or-the-highway(to hell) attitude that most non-believers have an issue with...and they should it's rediculous.
I think that's what Alex is driving at with ALL THESE posts? maybe?

Hey, I'm with you. That's no reason to deliberately misinterpret for his own satisfaction, as he accuses Christians of.
It also amazes me that, whenever there's a negative generalization about atheists, he's the first to shout "NOT ALL!" yet has no problem taking a Catholic belief and dumping it on all Christians.

And he thinks he's somehow better than them. Why? He's got science on his side!

No different than anyone thinking they're better because God is on their side. Nobody is better.

[JustAlex]

Hey, I'm with you. That's no reason to deliberately misinterpret for his own satisfaction, as he accuses Christians of.

You didn't get what I'm saying, so I'll try to make it more simplistic.

#1 It is a FACT, not a generalization, not a grouping of some christians into all of them....A FACT....that the bible is the guide for all christians.

#2 I never claimed that ALL christians think the bible is infallible, but I definitely did make a case for it not being so....but let's see, how many Americans DO think the Bible is infallible?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/one...ally-true.aspx

^Well according to this poll 31% of Americans believe the bible is LITERAL truth!

Another 47% think it is the inspired word of god.

Sorry, but this one is EASILY disputed to be neither the literal truth or inspired word of god.


BTW, Wickabee, how exactly would I be "better than them" because I have science on my side (whatever that means)?

I didn't even bring up science in this discussion.

[JustAlex]

I want to share more about that poll:



^Check this out.

Among christians in the U.S the majority of Protestants, "other christians", and catholics do hold the bible to be either Literal truth or the inspired word of god.

Again, that claim can be disputed, and many atheists have already done so.

I am not incorrect in my generalizing of them when the evidence shows that they do hold this belief.