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Thread: New selling tactic?
03-15-2013, 10:29 AM #11
Alot of people mention supply and demand, and its very true. I think everyone understands where the secondary market is at now, just some people still take it personally.
The guy was funny.. On the plus side for Rick Nash collectors, their cards are now /24
03-15-2013, 01:30 PM #12
"Luckily for us both I am intellectually above immature shallowness."
Baahahahahahahaha...oh, you were serious...
03-15-2013, 01:31 PM #13
I don't think that will even make jersey cards particularly valuable again.
If all the cards companies started only SSPing GU cards tomorrow, that won't change how flooded the market it already. If Rick Nash only had 10 GU cards TOTAL made of him next year, it wouldn't change the fact that there are 1000s of them on the market already. For the hardcore Rick Nash collector, that might drive the prices up (if there are a couple of them) but for the "I want a Rick Nash GU card for my collection" guy, he's got a decade of saturation to choose from.
It's the same reason why Bobby Orr autos can be had for under $100 today, where as 10 years ago there was no chance of it.
03-15-2013, 01:45 PM #14
03-15-2013, 03:07 PM #15
Ima looking at recent sales for 96/97 UD jereseys off eBay there.........$75 for Ray Bourque, $99 for Lindros $166 for Brett Hull. I truly think that a jersey card of a star player inserted one out of every 10 or 15 boxes in a $4.99 pack of next year's Upper Deck Series I or II would be "worth" decent money, AND hold its value. There are still set collectors out there, even if the player collectors don't need another Nash card..........
But then again, they'd still be flooding the market with the rest of it. Pacific doomed us all with 00/01 Private Stock, but if they hadn't then 00/01 SP GU would have.
Obviously I'm just talking to hear my own voice, I have NO idea how it could go back to the "good ol' days"
03-15-2013, 04:55 PM #16
Short printing without numbering does work though... last year Hejduk was an A-tier UD Game Jersey and every time one of those came up it sold quite high and all it was, was a small swatch of Hejduk jersey. I'm pretty sure they started at around $100, then later fell to $30 once set collectors grabbed them. But just this example alone proves it works. There are a trillion single one-color swatch Hejduk jersey cards, but because it was a short print part of a set that people often complete, the value increased. This helps box breakers as well, because now you don't have to score a Crosby buyback auto to recoup some of your cost, you've got more avenues to find value in the products. AND in theory shouldn't cost card companies any more $$$
Here's another example:
What other Shawn Matthias autograph card sells for $25?
On the same end, here's one that didn't work so well:
BUT - From the same set, an A-tier that worked (value-wise):
I think UD is on the right track with this idea, but obviously there has to be a tweak or two to the system for it to work out a bit better.
03-15-2013, 10:56 PM #17
Perhaps I'll be the lone voice in the wilderness, but I sympathize with the seller in the original ebay auction who ripped up the Nash card to make a point. When you open wax then sell, it's disheartening to see the thin return on the dollars spent for the wax. Buyers can complain about his point of view and suggest the solution is not to open wax...or blame the card companies. But:
-if people didn't open wax then buyers would have nothing to chase/buy;
-expecting card companies to lower their wax prices has the same chance of President Obama being re-elected for a third term in the next election (FYI if you don't know, by law he's not allowed to run a third time)
I've expressed this view before: in the past collectors paid more for cards, then came the internet followed by the poor economy, and prices tumbled and many people took advantage of sellers who were desperate for money and got cards for too little dough...then the expectation of many buyers seemed to be that low prices should be the norm (after all, it's just a "hobby" and who cares if others spend too much money to open the wax I need/want then lose big dough...that's THEIR problem). Now the postal rates have gone up with the States catching up to Canada after many years, then those same buyers who have that same sense of entitlement, complain about paying for those increased shipping costs (after all, why pay for increased ship...that's the problem of the seller...it's THEIR problem).
Add the fact that sellers get hit with ebay's rules favouring buyers...such as the zero negative feedback sellers can leave for deadbeat buyers...such as sellers having to guarantee delivery or else a full refund will be assessed against the seller (even though sellers can't usually charge for tracking ship, since those same buyers don't want to pay for it)...
Add the fact that 1) sellers have to pay increased ebay fees (buyers pay nothing to ebay) and then 2) when ebay eventually made it mandatory that buyers pay with paypal (a company owned by ebay) causing sellers to lose more money for paypal fees (buyers pay nothing to paypal)...and 3) if you're lucky enough to be a seller in Canada, converting the US paypal funds into Canadian cash results in paypal charging a US/Canada conversion fee (buyers pay nothing for this)...so after spending time to create the ebay listing...and after the sale then spending time to carefully pack up and ship the card...and with buyers often expecting to pay no more than the actual ship charge (why pay for the soft sleeve, plastic hard case, the envelope, gas for the trip to the post office or anything else because that's up to the seller so its THEIR problem), sellers get hit with about a 10% reduction when paying for the three things I mentioned at the start of this paragraph...
So sellers such as the one listing the ripped up Nash, react by sending a message with this ebay listing...and buyers wonder WHY? But hey, why bother to try and understand...after all, sellers can stop opening wax and that will solve everything...
Sorry but I always maintain that people should consider both sides and always strive to reach a solution that's mutually beneficial and one that helps the hobby grow. Sellers consistently losing money will eventually come around and hurt buyers. I've already noticed "die hard card collector" friends opening much less of especially higher end wax. I both sell and buy and always think "you get what you pay for" so I don't mind paying a fair price for something I need for my PC. If buyers keep thinking sellers owe them a favour and should continue to lose money and not complain...and if buyers continue to ignore the concerns of sellers...this hobby will die.
03-15-2013, 11:46 PM #18
BUT, there is no "law" stating buyers have to do anything, including buy. There is only the open market. If the sellers aren't making money from busting open SO MANY boxes and re-selling the insides, then go do something else. Or put their stuff up on eBay for a fixed BIN and not bend and see who caves first. I stopped selling last year because of the fees and the work involved and the fact that I'd run out of stuff to sell, but I never bought a box for the expressed purpose of selling it bit by bit. And like it's been said before, there's an absolute LOAD of stuff out there to buy without ever cracking open another box. If I don't wanna pay XXX dollars for a Trevor Linden card /100 to someone, I'll try seeing if the next one goes for XX or even X dollars. Or maybe find a different Trevor Linden card /100 to chase. A LOT of the blame goes to the card companies for the supply they're putting out, but some of it has to go to the eBay "businessmen" who keep buying into the never-ending ride as well.
Churning out product after product is sheer idiocy considering the economic times most of us live in. My spending has been cut down by 2/3 since the beginning of the year. Of course I want all the cards!! But who's paying for them??
The hobby will never die. It will change and morph and mutate, but there will always be people out there looking for a 51/52 Parkie or a Forever Rivals Henri Richard Jersey Red (me).
Don't forget, the hobby got along jusssttttt fine when your card choices were OPC & OPC if you lived in Canada and Topps & Topps if you lived in The States
03-16-2013, 12:37 PM #19
I don't think collector need person who break wax to sell. When I buy a card on ebay, I am the one that pay the paypal fee and the ebay fee and the shipping fee. not the seller. So I totaly disagree with that long post. While I agree some buyers can be a pain and that is a reality, most pay and don't ask question. I never write to a seller, I click, I pay and I leave feedback. So in the end I am the one that pay for all the fees the same way when I go to the store I am the one that pays the sale tax.
In the end it's up to seller to ajust their price to make money and if demand is too low, it's hard to turn a profit. But ain't this the way our market works. To me this is a hobby and I am not in to make money, if other want to do this, then it's their venture. While it's true that when demand is high you can make good money, it's also true that when demand is low you can loose money.
When I go to a store, do I ask myself if the owner make profit, no. So why should I do it for those who try to turn a profit selling cards?
So buyers pay the fees in the end not the sellers. It's up to them to set the price accordingly and auction with no reserve is a risk like when you buy a action, sometime you win sometime you loose. But it's their choice to sell not mine. Collector own nothing to seller except to pay in time, be nice and not lie about not receiving the cards. I mean this is where it's stop for me. Of course I sympathise with the seller about the nasty buyers. But for the rest, it's their business not mine.
So I disagree that the hobby need wax breaker for profit. It just raise the demand and lower the value in many way and manufacturer just put more product out there. The true collector would be there even if there was no secondary market seller. With Internet collector would still be able to sell their non PC items.
03-16-2013, 12:45 PM #20
I've never paid fees for buying..."Luckily for us both I am intellectually above immature shallowness."
Baahahahahahahaha...oh, you were serious...