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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    The Bible is not flawed, it is our notion of what the Bible is that is flawed.
    Shrew, I honestly have no idea what that means.

    Either something is flawed or it isn't.

    As you know, I am ready to post my proof of the different ways the bible contradicts itself, contains errors, and shows how outdated it really is.

    ^This is the flaw.

    I don't know how more simple it gets than that.

    BTW, this flaw doesn't disprove god, but it brings into question the whole religion.

    I've said in the past that I'm not against god's existence (if one day we were to find out it's true).....but I'm very much against religion.

    If god exists he most likely isn't the god of ANY of the religions we have made up here on earth.
    Last edited by JustAlex; 03-14-2013 at 11:37 PM.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  2. #42
    Either something is flawed or it isn't.
    alex, just like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so are the concepts of what is right or wrong.

    what some see as taboo, others view as normal.

    The Bible is not flawed, it is our notion of what the Bible is that is flawed.
    the Bible contains history, facts, and opinions, most of the NT is opinions, some history, and some facts
    it does not contain lies.
    if you asked me about abortion and someone asked you about abortion there would be two different opinions, though they would be contradictory to each other, neither is wrong.

    when we start to view opinions as right or wrong we create a divide and each side thinks they are right and the other side is flawed.
    example, prochoice / prolife, the death penalty, how to fix the deficit, and so on.
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    a Christian is someone who follows Christ, no where does Jesus say anything about the New Testament. So when you say Christian you are including all followers, and we have many different beliefs, just like Hinduism and Buddhism.
    Shrew, a christian is what you say it is.

    But the Christian religion is held together by the bible.....that is a fact.

    I don't think there is a single denomination within the christian religion that doesn't follow the bible is some way.

    There are three things that ALL christian denominations follow:

    #1 God (this god is nameless.....although in the OT his name is Yahweh, and it is in fact the same god that All christians believe in)

    #2 Jesus (this is the guy from the NT, his life (some of it anyways) is chronicled in there)

    #3 The Bible...

    So these 3 beliefs is what unites ALL Christians in the world.

    The first one has ZERO proof of existing.....ZERO!

    However, I don't have a problem with people believing in god.....on the surface it's quite harmless.

    The Second, probably did exist but we have ZERO proof of his miracles.....

    I'm actually more than OK with this Jesus guy.....in fact I WISH more people would follow some of his teachings in respect to love, compassion, treating others as you would want to be treated, not being greedy, helping the poor, the needy, the hungry, the desperate.


    The third is where the Majority of my problem lies in.

    This book is what both unites and DIVIDES all christians in this world.

    It is because of this book that we have so many problems.

    You can deny this all you want Shrew, but I can show evidence of this claim.


    Ultimately, despite the great teachings of this Jesus....the religion suffers because the bible is so convoluted, is so full of multiple meanings, and really does NOT do a good job of guiding human beings.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  4. #44
    again, you fail to see what I am telling you.

    the Bible can't do anything it is a book, it is the human part that is the issue.

    if you say the works of peter were the works of God or Jesus you would be wrong. if you said the works of peter were about peters beliefs and understanding of God you would be right. if you said what peter wrote is the corect way to live according to God you would be both wrong and right. how?
    because peter wrote what he knew as the truth, but he was peter, not paul, not Jesus, not thomas, just peter. he wrote with the best intentions, but they were his intentions. does this make peter a liar? only if our opposing views on abortion makes one of us a liar.
    it is humans who try to use the bible as the direct word of God that is flawed, not the bible.
    again, no where does it say God or Jesus or both wrote the NT, we know They did not, no where does Jesus or God or Both say follow the NT.

    so sure they share the bible, but the bible is a sacred text not a God nor the book written by God.

    just like a gun doesn't commit the crime, the criminal does. the Bible is not flawed, it is our view on what the bible is that is flawed.
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    just like a gun doesn't commit the crime, the criminal does. the Bible is not flawed, it is our view on what the bible is that is flawed.
    It's funny that you would use a gun analogy.

    The bible just as a gun, is harmless by itself.

    It can do nothing.

    But when a human uses these items, they can inflict terrible damage....unspeakable damage!

    The bible has some fault in this.....it is NOT any ordinary book that can create such havoc, chaos, and danger.

    BTW....would you not agree that the Koran (just as the bible) is used by people to do horrific things.

    Yes, at the end of the day the person is doing these actions....I get that, but they are influenced in a negative way by what is written in these books.
    Last edited by JustAlex; 03-15-2013 at 04:16 AM.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    It's funny that you would use a gun analogy.

    The bible just as a gun, is harmless by itself.

    It can do nothing.

    But when a human uses these items, they can inflict terrible damage....unspeakable damage!

    The bible has some fault in this.....it is NOT any ordinary book that can create such havoc, chaos, and danger.

    BTW....would you not agree that the Koran (just as the bible) is used by people to do horrific things.

    Yes, at the end of the day the person is doing these actions....I get that, but they are influenced in a negative way by what is written in these books.

    On the same token someone can be influenced by a Stephen King horror novel to do bad things. If someone is already screwed up in the head anything can set them off. A book, something they hear on the news, they could have a bad day at work, an argument with their wife, or anything else that you can think of.
    Drug and smoke free trading.

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  7. #47
    .would you not agree that the Koran (just as the bible) is used by people to do horrific things
    sure and swords, cars, knives, bats, rocks, water, money, household chemicals, planes, medicine, brains, muscles, tire iron, electricity, hammers, screw drivers, flashlights, and so on

    if we eliminated all the stuff people do horrific things with, we would have nothing left
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  8. #48


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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    And that's my exact sentiments as well.

    If it SEEMS like I'm being hateful or spiteful towards ALL christians then I think that's part of my deep frustration with what I see happening in this country on a day to day basis.

    It's just impossible for me to hate christians just becuase they believe something I don't.

    What is in their minds is of NO consequence to me.

    The problem is when they try to force those thoughts unto me by trying to pass laws that violate our constitution and our secular laws.

    I've also put it out blatantly out there before.....

    If at any point, in any thread, I directly offend anybody on here....please point it out to me and I will explain myself...

    My objective has never been to offend anyone....but at the same time IF I attack your religion, that is NOT the same as offending you directly....It's just not.

    Conversely, if theists attack my beliefs, that is also not a direct attack to me....unless the implication is direct.

    For example.....Alex is an idiot for believing the things he believes, he is immoral, and is going to hell.

    That would be a direct attack....something which I don't believe is productive in any discussion, and I don't do those type of attacks to no one on here.
    Alex, it seems like you hate Christians but because you gerealize them all together constantly. Even after you say you don't hate them you talk about the things "they" do.

    That's why we think you hate Christians.

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