03-15-2013, 08:34 PM #21
What you're showing is good data. I'm not arguing with the data. I'm saying America is in a toilet in all areas and is spinning fast down the drain. You're happy that religion is on the decline. But when I see what's on the rise at the same time, I see the possibility of a real correlation between the two.
Of course, that correlation would mean religion isn't completely the evil entity you describe it as. To admit that religion does some noticable good would undermine every argument you've ever made, so you won't. This is also what's wrong with the scientific method as we know it. You always ask me how ego could possibly get in the way of facts, you're demonstrating how. You refuse to even look at the possibility that religion does have a real place in society (they aren't separate, as you seem to think) and dismiss the very idea that the decline of America and the decline of religion could be related. The possibiilty is there, but you deny it without a second thought because of your preconceived thoughts of religion.
Basically, it's no different than someone saying "Look, I think the Earth is round" and you saying "No. It's flat. Look at the evidence. It's under your feet. What does it look like? Flat. It's flat. The Earth is flat." because you're already convinced the Earth is, in fact, flat.
03-15-2013, 08:40 PM #22
Ok, the amount of assumptions in this post is staggering.
On the other hand, in a more religious culture, particularly a Christian one, suicide is a sin that automatically gets you banned from heaven. I don't believe that, you don't believe that, but many do and if it saves lives, so be it.
03-15-2013, 08:45 PM #23
As I can easily show that violence in America is DOWN!
YOU assumed just as much....that America is getting more violent, when in reality it's not.
While I'm in fact making a case that there is ZERO correlation between religion, morality, and crimes.
You're trying to make one on the INCORRECT assumption that violence is on the rise in the U.S."The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."
03-15-2013, 08:54 PM #24
Religion hits record low in America.....But you made an ASSUMPTION that America has NEVER been in a worse shape as a country.
You then go to say school shootings, divorce, and teen suicides as a correlation.
I say that these things are NOT correlated and show examples of other countries.
You IGNORE those examples....and then say this:
Violent crime has been steadily going down.
So what now Wick?"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."
03-15-2013, 08:55 PM #25
03-15-2013, 08:56 PM #26
03-15-2013, 08:57 PM #27
so did you look at my source? and you went with wikipedia again??? (had to get that in)
I am not saying we need more religion, I am just pointing out your data can back up the fact religion declined/morals declinedJay Shrewsbury
03-15-2013, 09:14 PM #28
I don't think it's morally wrong to divorce or even kill yourself.
I would NEVER argue that one should kill himself because I value life. But at the same time, I believe that people should be able to do as they please with their own bodies.
The U.S has many problems, always has, always will....just like any other country.
There are legitimate reasons for those problems.
For example gun violence.....this is a big problem.
I've acknowledged that this problem is directly correlated with our "culture of guns".
In other words, the U.S is swimming in guns (Over 250 million), it's in the constitution, it has been engraved into our society.....this does not have to do with religion, or morality in general.
And so, the gun violence we see is not due to a rise in non-religion.
But there are other factors.
Let's go to divorce.
What's the cause of the rise in divorce?
Well, I'm sure that there's a variety of reasons.....and it's been steadily rising for some time now.
But we might be looking at it from the wrong end....maybe there's a problem with marriage, which is causing the divorce rate to be higher.
Maybe people are pressured into marriage when they are not ready.
we can do this for many topics....but to say that religion and morality goes hand in hand is silly."The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness..."
03-15-2013, 09:28 PM #29
03-15-2013, 09:32 PM #30
If people are killing themselves due to bullying....that's a problem.
If people are killing themselves because they simply don't want to live, then that's their own business.
We would need to see the numbers of people killing themselves due to third party influences, and address those influences.
When it comes to bullying, that's an easy one....we need to stop bullying in schools, the internet, and any other places where it might be rampant.