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  1. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    if all that was being done was providing health insurance for those who do not currently have it so that injury didn't bankrupt people, i would probably be accepting of it. However, what they are doing is messing with and raising costs of insurance for the 14 million americans who currently pay for it themselves. So, to answer your question, given the current plan, no i wouldn't believe it because they are affecting more than just those who currently do not have.
    I didn't ask if you could believe it. I even said I couldn't believe it. I asked, if it was believable, could you accept it.

  2. #22
    off topic - I might think twice about paying out pocket for the birth of a child. If there are any complications, you could find yourself in a world of financial pain.

    on topic - After all the subsidies and everything if you are paying less for health care than you were before... does it really matter if you are getting "government assistance?" We don't pay the real price for anything (Milk,grains,veggies,meat,gas) because of subsidies. Your mortgage interest is a government subsidy. That free school your kids will go to - same thing, government subsidy. Ditto on social security. Getting to work without a government-subsidized road would really suck. I get the philosophical queasiness, but instead I'd focus on what the government is finally doing right for you.
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  3. #23


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    Also, to the actual question in the title, no, I don't believe that to be the intent of Obamacare.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_curren View Post
    off topic - I might think twice about paying out pocket for the birth of a child. If there are any complications, you could find yourself in a world of financial pain.

    on topic - After all the subsidies and everything if you are paying less for health care than you were before... does it really matter if you are getting "government assistance?" We don't pay the real price for anything (Milk,grains,veggies,meat,gas) because of subsidies. Your mortgage interest is a government subsidy. That free school your kids will go to - same thing, government subsidy. Ditto on social security. Getting to work without a government-subsidized road would really suck. I get the philosophical queasiness, but instead I'd focus on what the government is finally doing right for you.
    part one - my insurance kicks in if there are any complications. we are only paying the 9000k for doctor and hospital fees assuming all goes well.

    part two - i do get what you are saying. the difference is, all those things you listed are paid for by my tax dollars and are provided for everyone. I don't have to go to the government and say "i can't afford to pay my bills, i need your help." the insurance subsidies are much more inline with welfare than with roads and schools. Also, if my insurance is going up, for things I don't need and won't use, how can I say "I'd focus on what the government is finally doing right for you?" What are they finally doing right for me?
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  5. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    part one - my insurance kicks in if there are any complications. we are only paying the 9000k for doctor and hospital fees assuming all goes well.

    part two - i do get what you are saying. the difference is, all those things you listed are paid for by my tax dollars and are provided for everyone. I don't have to go to the government and say "i can't afford to pay my bills, i need your help." the insurance subsidies are much more inline with welfare than with roads and schools. Also, if my insurance is going up, for things I don't need and won't use, how can I say "I'd focus on what the government is finally doing right for you?" What are they finally doing right for me?
    This is for the people. Everyone being healthy is beneficial to all.

  6. #26
    Everyone being healthy is beneficial to all
    agreed, but health often derives from lifestyle choices and advocacy for healthy choices.

    people should be able to go to the doctor or be treated and they should all have insurance.

    my issue is medicaid and medicare fraud and how bad that was run into the ground, we need more free clinics and nurses to advocate healthy choices and educate the public on the many things that can lead to good or better health.
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  7. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    agreed, but health often derives from lifestyle choices and advocacy for healthy choices.

    people should be able to go to the doctor or be treated and they should all have insurance.

    my issue is medicaid and medicare fraud and how bad that was run into the ground, we need more free clinics and nurses to advocate healthy choices and educate the public on the many things that can lead to good or better health.
    So what you're saying is preventative care and early healthy choices are needed? So Michelle Obama had the right id each then.

  8. #28
    What everyone is forgetting in all this, is good Public Health.

    There really is no Public Health platform in the USA. You need a shot, you have to pay to see a Physician, ...... end of. You have questions about public sanitation, and poor living conditions, there is nowhere to go to address your concerns. You want education regarding communicable disease and the level of risk that you and your family might be at based on your socio-economic status? No office to give you an answer. When you are poor and your kids need to be inoculated against MMR and other maladies, there is no place to get their shots without having money on hand for it.

    When the USA decided to take the Richard Nixon approach to Health, that was using a Middle-Man (Insurance Companies) to determine an individuals health needs, they threw Public Health into the gutter. Any type of government run Health Program cannot exist if the 27% disenfranchised do not have access to good Public Health.

    The personal physician being in charge of everyone's needs is a mistake, and really costly. You need a proactive Public Health policy including offices that can handle safe water issues, sanitation, Innoculations, and answer and address health questions and need for the entire community.
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  9. #29
    There really is no Public Health platform in the USA. You need a shot, you have to pay to see a Physician, ...... end of. You have questions about public sanitation, and poor living conditions, there is nowhere to go to address your concerns. You want education regarding communicable disease and the level of risk that you and your family might be at based on your socio-economic status? No office to give you an answer. When you are poor and your kids need to be inoculated against MMR and other maladies, there is no place to get their shots without having money on hand for it.
    actually you are wrong, there is not enough of them, but they do exist in many forms.
    Jay Shrewsbury
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  10. #30
    There aren't any here in Oregon, or in Nevada, or in several other States. Want some public health questions answered they direct you to the State Capitol where you are handed from one civil servant to the next and placed on hold for an eternity.
    Last edited by centrehice; 04-05-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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