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  1. #1

    Jason Collinsís religious critics need to practice what they preach

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  2. #2
    This is what I was trying to say in my Chris Broussard thread.

    If you're a christian shut up about gays and follow your bible and do NOT judge others, don't say they are sinners.

    You are NOT better than them, and you do NOT have the "moral high ground".
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    This is what I was trying to say in my Chris Broussard thread.

    If you're a christian shut up about gays and follow your bible and do NOT judge others, don't say they are sinners.

    You are NOT better than them, and you do NOT have the "moral high ground".
    i don't think i am better than anyone. In fact, I know I'm not. I am a sinner just like anyone else. christians should definitely not judge others. However, me being a sinner does not keep me from saying that something else is a sin. Your line about "don't say they are sinners" seems strange. why does me being a sinner keep me from saying something else is a sin?

    now, it shouldn't be done in a judgmental way, with that I agree completely.
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  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    i don't think i am better than anyone. In fact, I know I'm not. I am a sinner just like anyone else. christians should definitely not judge others. However, me being a sinner does not keep me from saying that something else is a sin. Your line about "don't say they are sinners" seems strange. why does me being a sinner keep me from saying something else is a sin?

    now, it shouldn't be done in a judgmental way, with that I agree completely.
    It's the old "well can you do any better" argument that assumes you need to be a 5 star chef to know when food tastes bad.
    In this case, however, it assumes one must he perfect in order to find wrongdoing.

    Now, I don't agree one bit with what some people are saying hut, in the interest of freedom of speech and religion, "I will fight to the death for their right to say it" so to speak. Those are their beliefs. Some see it as passing judgement, they see it as stating fact. In the context of their beliefs, it is fact. We can't definitively say one way or the other if they're right or not. What they aren't is bigots. Bigots would be calling for this man to be thrown out of the league, if not killed. These people aren't accepting by any means, but by simply stating their beliefs on the subject and nothing more, they are remaining tolerant. Accepting and tolerant are not the exact same thing.

    What I find slightly ironic is alex's secular self passing judgement on him despite your not being a judge and him having broken no law, about him passing judgement. Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

    Maybe these comments are a damnation by the speaker. If that's the case, they have no one to answer to but their God. While he's basically right about what he's saying, I do find it odd he's kind of playing the prophet here, and telling the religious what they're doing against God.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    Your line about "don't say they are sinners" seems strange. why does me being a sinner keep me from saying something else is a sin?
    Because there is an implicit hypocritical contradiction when a christian points fingers at others while he himself is doing something he shouldn't according to his bible.

    The Bible clearly says not to judge others.....you are NOT allowed to call anyone a sinner, that is judging them.

    Even if you believe they are sinning, it is NOT your place to call them out on that.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickabee View Post
    What I find slightly ironic is alex's secular self passing judgement on him despite your not being a judge and him having broken no law, about him passing judgement. Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

    Maybe these comments are a damnation by the speaker. If that's the case, they have no one to answer to but their God. While he's basically right about what he's saying, I do find it odd he's kind of playing the prophet here, and telling the religious what they're doing against God.
    There's nothing ironic about my comments.

    I called Broussard out because he is pointing fingers at something he shouldn't by his own religious biblical laws.

    He is NOT allowed to call others sinners regardless if he believes they are sinning, that is not his place.

    I may not believe what the bible says but if you ARE going to use the bible to make a point....so will I.

    That's fair, is it not?
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    Because there is an implicit hypocritical contradiction when a christian points fingers at others while he himself is doing something he shouldn't according to his bible.

    The Bible clearly says not to judge others.....you are NOT allowed to call anyone a sinner, that is judging them.

    Even if you believe they are sinning, it is NOT your place to call them out on that.
    you would be wrong. not only is telling someone they are sinning not the same as judging, the bible specifically tells christians to "call out" people on their sins in order to help them return to purity.
    Again, I am very against condemning statements and I am against a lot of the reaction against collins but to say that calling something a sin is wrong is ridiculous.

    it seems very interesting that according to you, no christian is ever allowed to talk to anyone else about their sin because we are all sinners. I don't need to be perfect to see a sin. Now we can disagree on whether something is a sin or not, but my ability to see it is not hindered by my own sin.
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  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    you would be wrong. not only is telling someone they are sinning not the same as judging, the bible specifically tells christians to "call out" people on their sins in order to help them return to purity.
    Again, I am very against condemning statements and I am against a lot of the reaction against collins but to say that calling something a sin is wrong is ridiculous.

    it seems very interesting that according to you, no christian is ever allowed to talk to anyone else about their sin because we are all sinners. I don't need to be perfect to see a sin. Now we can disagree on whether something is a sin or not, but my ability to see it is not hindered by my own sin.
    Amen!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ensbergcollector View Post
    you would be wrong. not only is telling someone they are sinning not the same as judging, the bible specifically tells christians to "call out" people on their sins in order to help them return to purity.
    Again, I am very against condemning statements and I am against a lot of the reaction against collins but to say that calling something a sin is wrong is ridiculous.

    it seems very interesting that according to you, no christian is ever allowed to talk to anyone else about their sin because we are all sinners. I don't need to be perfect to see a sin. Now we can disagree on whether something is a sin or not, but my ability to see it is not hindered by my own sin.
    Think about what Broussard said.....he said that the homosexual life is both a life of sin and being in open rebellion to god.

    So there's no doubt he is calling Jason a sinner.

    OK, now let's get to the next point.

    Are Christians allowed to do this?

    Well let's see:

    James 4:11 "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law."

    James 4:12 "
    There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? "

    Matthew 7:1-2 "
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you"


    You're kidding me if you think calling others sinners and in open rebellion towards god isn't judging their actions.

    Yes, I believe Christians don't have the right (by their own stupid rules) to call ANYONE a sinner.
    Logic and Reason is all you need.

  10. #10
    adam and eve not adam and steve
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