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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by indexed View Post
    Atheists ask some fairly dumb questions. Would you leave your children with a child molester who converted to Christianity. If you answer no then you are some kind of hypocrite. Its the same as asking does 2+2=4 you answer yes and that somehow by default puts your belief in doubt because you have sided with science over religion. It is a completely irrational question to ask.

    christians follow some fairly dumb nothingness dogma. I would not leave my children with any human that was previously charged with pedophilia, or a turkey, or a goat.

    How am I a hypocrite? I am the worst kind of atheist that you will ever encounter, the common sense, historical truth kind.
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  2. #22
    How about God actually proves he's real to begin with.

    Maybe by showing us some evidence.

    Let's start there
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    with our group of good friends that are all gay, most say they were born that way, one says she is a pansexual(attracted to the person no the gender)

    habs, yes, I chose to be with females, can't say why, but perhaps nature, has always made me attracted to the opposite sex. was I born that way? sure, how else would a species survive without the need to procreate?

    I guess I don't see homosexuality as a retardation (as some would) but rather a personal choice, that could have been altered by by several factors.

    I live in a huge gay community (oberlin, OH) and know all kinds of gay couples, some you would know were gay, some not. some women like to look like men, some not, females couples that both seem masculine, and female couples both seem feminine, as the same with male couple. some couple have been together longer than I have been alive. some are poor, some are teachers, some are very active in the community. to me, they are all born the same, just people make different choices in life for different reasons.

    I don't think people are born religious, atheists, gay, liberal, conservative, I think people become these things from choices, experiences, and influence.

    but who knows, maybe they will find the gay gene, but the real question is, what if they do?
    Really Jay??? You lump gay in with political ideologies and religious beliefs. You really think they are the same thing? You really think people choose to be gay and experience a life filled with hatred and rejection from loved ones?

    Explain to me what the reasoning is behind your refusal to even consider that humans can be born with a multitude of varying sexual identities? What is it that makes this so hard to accept? You can talk all you want about your "experiences" with gay couples. If you aren't listening to what they are telling you what difference does it make? If they tell you they have always been gay, why do you refuse to believe it? Why do you, who has no personal experience at being gay, feel you know the truth of their gay origins?

    Your stance on this is completely illogical, but what's new.
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  4. #24
    habs, good job at sticking one in there, hope you feel better.

    I don't find most gays to be genetically mutated, or born with some disease, or abnormality.
    People do all kinds of things that make them experience hatred and rejection, most of what I named are prime examples.
    people can be gay without having to have some reason to justify it, they are not freaks and don't need an excuse for their sexual preferences.
    what are you afraid if they weren't born that way it leaves anyone open to becoming gay?
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  5. #25


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    Saying it's a choice for none is as illogical as saying it's a choice for all.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JustAlex View Post
    How about God actually proves he's real to begin with.

    Maybe by showing us some evidence.

    Let's start there.
    I still can't get over the idea that people think that the higher power gives a crap and a half about what we do...or that there is a higher power that is aware of something as unimportant to the general flow of fate as sexual orientation...and that people really believe that: Of course God can transform a gay person straight. He's God and can do anything. ... just laughable
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  7. #27
    wickabee, perhaps my issue with saying they are born that way is I would then be applying they have a genetic disorder.

    from what I know MSH and your sixth chromosome are the genetics that create the desire to mate and reproduce, and without this, their is no species.

    I think personal sexuality is just as important as religious beliefs, morals, and values. and people will suffer through what they believe is right, which in essence is right. but I can tell you I cannot argue they are not born homosexual, neither one of us have the proof, it is just my opinion, and one that could be wrong. it is not about believing them or me being right, it is about seeing something a different way.
    if they ever find the gay gene, will it be considered a mutation, a syndrome, a disorder?
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  8. #28
    I wasn't meaning to speak in absolutes, obviously sexuality can be more ambiguous than just black and white.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by centrehice View Post
    christians follow some fairly dumb nothingness dogma. I would not leave my children with any human that was previously charged with pedophilia, or a turkey, or a goat.

    How am I a hypocrite? I am the worst kind of atheist that you will ever encounter, the common sense, historical truth kind.

    There is just no correlation at all whatsoever in your statement. You could actually be retarded or severely handicapped for example and convert from Atheism to Christianity and I wouldnt they would be able to baby sit either. A CHristians relationship is between him/herself and god not the babysitter, the gov't, the paper boy etc. So I don't see how it makes much sense to say not leaving your kids with a converted molester has anything to do with a belief in faith.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by shrewsbury View Post
    habs, good job at sticking one in there, hope you feel better.

    I don't find most gays to be genetically mutated, or born with some disease, or abnormality.
    People do all kinds of things that make them experience hatred and rejection, most of what I named are prime examples.
    people can be gay without having to have some reason to justify it, they are not freaks and don't need an excuse for their sexual preferences.
    what are you afraid if they weren't born that way it leaves anyone open to becoming gay?
    Jay, I'm not afraid of anything. I accept people for who they are. I accept what a gay person tells me to be the truth. If one tells me they were "born that way", I believe it. If another tells me they "chose" to be gay, I believe it. I do not have a reason to disbelieve them. Faced with both options being true, I look for explanations that make both plausible. You apparently discount what "most" of your friends are telling you and go with your own hunches that say all those people in the word having a problem with their sexuality, do so out of choice. It's absurd.

    Considering the complexity of the universe it's not hard to imagine that every human is not born the same, unless of course you have a reason to stick your head in the sand.
    Last edited by habsheaven; 05-07-2013 at 08:08 AM.
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