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Thread: Evidence vs. Faith.

  
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    Evidence vs. Faith.

    So, this is what it all comes down to when we discuss our beliefs.

    Evidence vs. Faith

    What I personally don't get is why it is only in the "God hypothesis" where people are unwilling to give evidence, and yet they expect and want others to believe them.

    Think about it.

    In your daily life, evidence is a MUST in order to accept almost any claim.....especially if it's a BIG claim.

    Example: You're the manager at a business and one of your employees is 2 hours late, when you ask him what happened, he tells you that he got a flat tire.

    At this point, the employee presents a receipt from a tire station he went to, which is correctly dated to today's date, you also notice that his clothes are a bit dirty and he looks like he's been sweating.

    Now, do you believe his story about why he was late?

    Most people would say....YES!

    There is EVIDENCE that he had a flat tire, he's got a receipt from the tire station he went to get a new tire, his clothes are dirty which suggests he probably attempted to change the tire.....even though you are not 100% sure he is telling the truth, from the evidence presented, you conclude (using common sense and rationality) that the story checks out.


    Example #2: The same story, however in this scenario, the employee has no evidence of his story, and furthermore he seems defensive when you as the manager ask him for said evidence.


    Any logical human being would say that for the second example, the employee's story simply can't be believed.

    He is not providing any evidence whatsoever, and when asked to provide evidence, he gets bothered....more than likely, he is lying.

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    So, this is what it all comes down to when we discuss our beliefs.

    Evidence vs. Faith

    What I personally don't get is why it is only in the "God hypothesis" where people are unwilling to give evidence, and yet they expect and want others to believe them.

    Think about it.

    In your daily life, evidence is a MUST in order to accept almost any claim.....especially if it's a BIG claim.

    Example: You're the manager at a business and one of your employees is 2 hours late, when you ask him what happened, he tells you that he got a flat tire.

    At this point, the employee presents a receipt from a tire station he went to, which is correctly dated to today's date, you also notice that his clothes are a bit dirty and he looks like he's been sweating.

    Now, do you believe his story about why he was late?

    Most people would say....YES!

    There is EVIDENCE that he had a flat tire, he's got a receipt from the tire station he went to get a new tire, his clothes are dirty which suggests he probably attempted to change the tire.....even though you are not 100% sure he is telling the truth, from the evidence presented, you conclude (using common sense and rationality) that the story checks out.


    Example #2: The same story, however in this scenario, the employee has no evidence of his story, and furthermore he seems defensive when you as the manager ask him for said evidence.


    Any logical human being would say that for the second example, the employee's story simply can't be believed.

    He is not providing any evidence whatsoever, and when asked to provide evidence, he gets bothered....more than likely, he is lying.

    How can you add a caveat to one scenario and not another? Unless he got defensive when he had evidence, you've created two completely different situations that don't say anything to your point and aren't really comparable.

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    How can you add a caveat to one scenario and not another? Unless he got defensive when he had evidence, you've created two completely different situations that don't say anything to your point and aren't really comparable.

    OK, fine....take the defensive attitude away from the equation and it doesn't change that much....you still can't believe his story.

    BTW, the only reason I added the defensive part, is because that's how many theists react when atheists tell them to provide evidence for the god they believe in.

    This is when they will say things like "You can't prove god doesn't exists!"

    That is still the most stupidest retort that any theist can use.....I'm NOT the one making the claim...YOU are.

    Let's put that in my example...

    The manager asks the employee to provide proof of his flat tire.

    Since he doesn't have any proof, he says...."You can't proof my car didn't get a flat tire!".

    Well....DUH!

    The manager is not the one making the claim....the employee made the claim and as such the burden of proof is on him to properly explain his story.

    If he can't explain his story in a satisfactory manner WITH evidence....then there is simply no reason to believe him.

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    You can believe it. In scenario one you can't. You know it because there is proof. Knowledge means belief can't exist.

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    evidence based logic and faith based logic

    The Big Bang Theory, Aquatic Hypothesis, Savannah Hypothesis are logical based on evidence and knowledge, but in no way can be proven to be true, thus are based on faith that the information is true.

    even the first scenario requires faith that your logic is correct. they could have smudge some dirt on them and their friend who works at the tire store gave them a fake receipt. you would not know it was true unless you passed them on the road when they had the flat tire.

    the second scenario also requires faith. maybe someone helped changed the tire or they are good at it and are not dirty (or brought other clothes) perhaps they have had a bad day and seem defensive, but it has nothing to do with lying. but you have faith in your assumptions and believe you are right.

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    What I personally don't get is why it is only in the "God hypothesis" where people are unwilling to give evidence, and yet they expect and want others to believe them.

    Think about it.

    In your daily life, evidence is a MUST in order to accept almost any claim.....especially if it's a BIG claim.

    My wife recently returned from a business trip to Las Vegas. As she walked through the casino area she repeatedly passed tables where she was expected to risk her money. At every table she was expected to have faith that she could win while being given no evidence that her chances of winning were real.

    Your theory is flawed sir. There are many, many instances in life where we have faith without evidence.

    Want to know the ironic part? You (as in JustAlex) have faith...you have faith that there is no god. You have zero undeniable proof that there is no such thing as Elohim, Allah or even Lucifer. You can no more prove that there isn't a god than they can prove that there is. As much as you hate people who have faith that there is a god, you are no different from them except that your faith is counter to theirs.

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    OK, fine....take the defensive attitude away from the equation and it doesn't change that much....you still can't believe his story.

    BTW, the only reason I added the defensive part, is because that's how many theists react when...

    Many atheists are going to church and turning atheism into a religion. Why do you get to ignore this?

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    I have to say this is a very good analogy.There is all types of faith and you my friend but a bullet wound in Alex's theory.I understand Alex's passion against religion and the so called church but like stated in the thread a faith in no god and atheism as a religion.I cannot add anything other than I agree here with Duane and Wick
    My wife recently returned from a business trip to Las Vegas. As she walked through the casino area she repeatedly passed tables where she was expected to risk her money. At every table she was expected to have faith that she could win while being given no evidence that her chances of winning were real.

    Your theory is flawed sir. There are many, many instances in life where we have faith without evidence.

    Want to know the ironic part? You (as in JustAlex) have faith...you have faith that there is no god. You have zero undeniable proof that there is no such thing as Elohim, Allah or even Lucifer. You can no more prove that there isn't a god than they can prove that there is. As much as you hate people who have faith that there is a god, you are no different from them except that your faith is counter to theirs.


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    My wife recently returned from a business trip to Las Vegas. As she walked through the casino area she repeatedly passed tables where she was expected to risk her money. At every table she was expected to have faith that she could win while being given no evidence that her chances of winning were real.

    Your theory is flawed sir. There are many, many instances in life where we have faith without evidence.

    Want to know the ironic part? You (as in JustAlex) have faith...you have faith that there is no god. You have zero undeniable proof that there is no such thing as Elohim, Allah or even Lucifer. You can no more prove that there isn't a god than they can prove that there is. As much as you hate people who have faith that there is a god, you are no different from them except that your faith is counter to theirs.

    This is a terrible analogy. You are referring to HOPE, not FAITH. If you had framed it in such a way as to describe YOUR FAITH in your wife's ability to resist the temptation to gamble; that would have been a proper analogy. And as for JustAlex's faith in no God; you are again comparing a belief and a disbelief. It can't be done credibly.

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    So a disbelief or God is not the same as the belief of a lack of God?

    Serious question.

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