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Thread: Panini done?

  
  1. #11





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    I can't envision their corporate folks sitting around a table discussing secondary market values...

    Granted they don't care as long as they sell their products to their distributors. I doubt Panini cares that 11/12 Contenders and Elite are under 40 a box, nor does Upper Deck that 11/12 Cup is under 375. The problem I'm seeing is more products than a primary OR secondary market can support.

    If you look through a Beckett you'll see pricing that doesn't make sense. On that same token where are these Beckett prices coming from. Arguably eBay is the biggest resale market for cards and VERY few cards sell anywhere near their purposed Hi column prices. I think in 2-3 years this hobby could be in some serious trouble collectively.

    I doubt many, if any, of us are here for investment purposes. If you're breaking boxes you have to have the realization that your ROI might not reach the box price but when you can walk away with 75 bucks in resale out of a tin of Cup sooner or later that's going to weigh in heavily on people and the spending of their income. This is a discretionary market. No one NEEDS cards so when resale prices continually drop and the market continues to be flooded with products, many of which feel poorly conceived, sooner or later it's going to come crashing down.

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  2. #12
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    Granted they don't care as long as they sell their products to their distributors. I doubt Panini cares that 11/12 Contenders and Elite are under 40 a box, nor does Upper Deck that 11/12 Cup is under 375. The problem I'm seeing is more products than a primary OR secondary market can support.

    If you look through a Beckett you'll see pricing that doesn't make sense. On that same token where are these Beckett prices coming from. Arguably eBay is the biggest resale market for cards and VERY few cards sell anywhere near their purposed Hi column prices. I think in 2-3 years this hobby could be in some serious trouble collectively.

    I doubt many, if any, of us are here for investment purposes. If you're breaking boxes you have to have the realization that your ROI might not reach the box price but when you can walk away with 75 bucks in resale out of a tin of Cup sooner or later that's going to weigh in heavily on people and the spending of their income. This is a discretionary market. No one NEEDS cards so when resale prices continually drop and the market continues to be flooded with products, many of which feel poorly conceived, sooner or later it's going to come crashing down.

    -Ron

    Well said Ron. The "home run" type products out there wouldn't be such a bad thing if you could at least come away with a ground-rule-double if you don't hit something big. I don't open a ton of wax by any stretch of the imagination, but I've opened two packs out of the same box of SP Game Used over the past week at $30 per pack. Guess who came away with the two single jersey Authentic Fabrics from said box? This guy. For that same amount of money I could buy a couple really nice PC cards. I know that it's the luck of the draw and all that, but even if I hit the best single jersey cards in the product (whether personal or secondary market dictation) I'm down there. Sucks. LOL
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  3. #13





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    30 bucks for a jersey you can get 2 bucks for on eBay. Sounds to me like you're just being negative.

    LOL!

  4. #14
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    LOL A bit of sour grapes to go along with my cheese, I guess!

    Going back to the root of the thread, I hope that Panini will be around for more in hockey. Some people may not like them and others have concerns about the secondary values but they do make some really nice products.

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    So does ITG. Actually I think ITG has better swatches and patches and would produce a better product. Just my thoughts so don't flame me lol

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    I opened a couple boxes of Dominion recently and really thought it's a nice product. I know some people are not fans but if you put a Peerless Patches card beside a Limited Logos the Dominion card makes the Cup card feel cheap in my opinion. That rich gloss on the 10/11 and 11/12 Dominion really set off the designs in my opinion. Overall, I think that product is very nice. In general though for every good design there's 1-2 bad ones.

    I really wish they'd limit the releases a bit and put some more thought into products. Too much seems like it's given a new coat of paint and some tire shine and has the odometer rolled back and pawned off as new. I'd rather see less products with more well thought out designs and themes and products with depth than a new release every week that "features" 37 parallels of the same card to make up for creativity. I'm content with a couple versions. I don't need platinum, gold, silver, uranium, molybdenum, copper, bronze, brass, aluminum, carbon, iron, tin, and recycled Budweiser can parallels of the same jersey.

    I know it's all about sales, the bottom line, and profits but they're flooding their own market. You'd think they have enough forward thinking to know this but I have my doubts. There's some products, Artifacts and Ice for example, that I think have a really cool concept but they just lack creativity and product depth for me. Break 2 or 3 boxes and you've pretty much seen what the product has to offer. When your break goes hit A, B, C, D each time the novelty wears off quickly. I think if they cut down on the number of products and really gave it depth and breadth you might have people continuing to break it rather than moving on to the next newest bestest patchiest paralleliest thing to hit store shelves advertising X number of hits per box but ultimately disappointing.

    I think my soap box needs a coat of paint, LOL.


    Going back to the root of the thread, I hope that Panini will be around for more in hockey. Some people may not like them and others have concerns about the secondary values but they do make some really nice products.


  7. #17
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    So does ITG. Actually I think ITG has better swatches and patches and would produce a better product. Just my thoughts so don't flame me lol

    No argument at all here - I was going through some of my Price PC stuff the other day and I'd say that the majority of my favourite cards are ITG releases. Certainly some of the most limited and visually striking memorabilia cards are.

  8. #18




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    If you look through a Beckett you'll see pricing that doesn't make sense. On that same token where are these Beckett prices coming from. Arguably eBay is the biggest resale market for cards and VERY few cards sell anywhere near their purposed Hi column prices. I think in 2-3 years this hobby could be in some serious trouble collectively.

    -Ron

    Someone actually said to me recently they couldn't buy a card from me at the price offered because it was total BV. I could only laugh...(shocking fact was Bay listing do show it selling for that price. Certainly the exception, not the rule) Although it says a lot when a Lemieux auto out of 50 only books 50!

    Ron and I have discussed this a few times, and I couldn't agree more. The market is flooded with too much that just brings the value down and makes it hard to spend hard-earned money on something that too often will disappoint. Eventually that catches up with all parties involved. I know it helped me end my player collections and basically limit what I collect to a few things compared to what I was doing previously. Box breaks basically ended entirely, although then I saw stickwork, got excited, and ordered a 20 box case, but that's another story. That will be all I break for the year, and probably the only non-Penguins thing I collect.

    Back to the original discussion. Despite what I said above, I hope the license is worked out for Panini as well give ITG one too. But as was already said, I'd love to see the products more limited and include more depth. Less variations of cards and more unique subsets. 4-5 releases, each, only. 1-2 low end, 1-2 mid-range, and 1-2 higher end.
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    Thanks for this information, Dr. Price.

    I was looking through the Internet to see when they made the announcement back in 2010 and it was late March. So we're around that same timeline now - should be interesting to see what happens.

    My ideal scenario is that Panini, UD, and ITG each receive a license to make 7 NHL/PA products plus one specialty release if they so choose, i.e. Team Canada, Heroes and Prospects. I feel that all three companies have much to offer collectors, and it would be great for the hobby to have each of them producing products on a level playing field with the knowledge that they only get so many opportunities to deliver appealing hockey cards.



    You know what though, based on that Rich, this is a reason I wouldnt want ITG to get a license if they had to make that deal. What keeps ITG neck and neck without a license is the amazing specialty sets they do put out. Looks how many over the past couple years, Captain C, Motown Madness, Broad Street Boys, FOREVER RIVALS (the best one :D), Superlative First Six, StickWork coming up looks ridiculously good, etc.

    These specialty sets are what makes ITG the unique company and IMO the #1 company

  10. #20




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    This put things into perspective. NBA, MLB and NFL has success with products that are not not licensed with the likes of UD, Leaf and Panini offering college and minor league products, but how successful would a minor league product be for hockey? AHL only for example? Interesting.

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