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  1. #11




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    This is what we call a "cause and effect" relationship.

    If you walk into a store and start throwing a tantrum, will the manager be inclined to help you or is he going to ask you to leave and then come back when you can act like a civilized human being? I've watched enough episodes of Pawn Stars and worked in enough customer service jobs to know that the answer is the latter.

    Just because you can't see the other person on the phone line doesn't mean that they're not a human being too. Treating them with dignity and respect begets dignity and respect coming back the other way.

    It's unfortunate that you had a really bad experience but it sounds like it was largely a self-inflicted one. You go through the proper channels, good things happen. You try to cut corners and all of a sudden you've got a velociraptor chasing you all over the park because the electricity is down.

    I respectfuly disagree.

    I didn't start by "throwing a tantrum", MONTHS of incompetent idiots not doing their jobs, followed by a couple of messages that were flat out IGNORED caused me to try harder to get their attention.

    This illustrates the difference between GOOD customer service and POOR customer service. Just because you work, or have worked in customer service, doesn't mean you provide(d) GOOD customer service. Good customer service doesn not just ignore a ticked off customer, they try to understand what it is that their company has done to tick that person off in the first place and solve the problem. The organizations across the globe with a history of impeccable customer service all follow that same formula.

    The customer is not a HINDRANCE to your work, they are the reason for it. You have a job because you keep them satisfied. A customer does not buy your product with the intention of being disappointed, and once you have disappointed them at that all important first moment of truth(a term used across the industry to describe the point at which the customer first opens your product and decides whether their money was well spent, or if you have let them down) it is your job to understand that they WILL be upset, and that you cannot control their reaction, because people get upset in different ways, and if it wasn't for your crappy quality control, they would not currently have a reason to be upset. At this point, any GOOD customer service rep would weather the storm and then proceed to try and please their customer, so as not to lose them as a customer.

    Please stop assuming that just because you have worked in customer service, you understand what GOOD customer service is. I made a career out of it, I gave my entire self to satisfying customers, which is why I get so upset when I run into BAD customer service.

    Stop making excuses for them, I know that everyone wants to be the one to stand up and say "quit complaining, suck it up" but it gets real old real fast, and it really shows how much you guys undervalue yourselves as consumers.
    Last edited by adamslogik; 09-18-2014 at 12:08 PM.

  2. #12
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    Undervaluing ourselves as consumers? I'll respectfully disagree with that. I think it's more a case of people being realistic about how valuable they are, as consumers.

    If you're talking about a major distributer of your products (let's use CnC as an example, as they do sell a high volume of wax) I would imagine a company is going to bend over backwards to make sure they don't upset them. Give them free stuff, or special treatment? Maybe not... but fix problems as quickly as possible, for sure. Of course they've probably got a sales rep that they've got a relationship with... and wouldn't be dealing with regular CS anyway.

    As far as CS goes (in general), maybe this is a reflection of how jaded I can be - but be honest: Do you really think the person on the other end of the phone cares? Truth is that most customer service jobs are staffed by people making minimum wage (or slightly better) and they don't care. I don't agree with this (I believe that if someone is good enough to give you a job, and you agree to take that job, you should aim to do well at it - no matter how menial you think it might be) but that's the world we live in. Be that the guy calling you trying to sign you up for a new credit card, the kid working behind the counter at the gas station, the one pouring a cup of coffee for you, or whoever it is on the other end of the line @ Panini.

    Yes, I've worked customer service type jobs too (on occasion I guess I still technically do - I'm dealing with clients as a programmer, not pumping their gas) and I'll agree with what you're getting at: good customer service is being able to quickly, and effectively, deal with the concerns of your customers. Poor customer service is not being able to do, or even worse - flat out ignoring them.

    But what are you expecting Panini will do here? They've got a pretty clear set of procedures, and you didn't follow it. I agree with how you handled it, I wouldn't have paid for tracking either, but no matter how many times you call them.... no matter how polite or rude you might be.... what seems to have never happened is anyone receiving your package. Did they? Probably. But without the requirement of a signature, whoever handled the mail that day can get away with being as lazy as they want. The tracking forces someone on the receiving end to accept personal responsibility for the early part of the process, and by letting them off the hook with that, you're taking a chance that the guy making $8 and hour, receiving your mail, is actually going to do something with it - instead of making his own life easier and doing nothing.

    Going back to how much any of us are "valued" as a customer - the answer is pretty simple: We aren't. We're insignificant numbers to big corporations (be that Panini, Home Depot, Shell, or Time Hortons). We do not have the power to affect their business. If I start a thread here, bashing Panini, and insisting I'll never buy from them again because they wronged me: How much will that change their bottom line? How will their sales be impacted? We both know the answer is "It won't". Therefore, why are they going to invest the time & money into building a customer service department that can effectively deal with everyone's problems? They won't, because that would hurt their bottom line.



    I respectfuly disagree.

    I didn't start by "throwing a tantrum", MONTHS of incompetent idiots not doing their jobs, followed by a couple of messages that were flat out IGNORED caused me to try harder to get their attention.

    This illustrates the difference between GOOD customer service and POOR customer service. Just because you work, or have worked in customer service, doesn't mean you provide(d) GOOD customer service. Good customer service doesn not just ignore a ticked off customer, they try to understand what it is that their company has done to tick that person off in the first place and solve the problem. The organizations across the globe with a history of impeccable customer service all follow that same formula.

    The customer is not a HINDRANCE to your work, they are the reason for it. You have a job because you keep them satisfied. A customer does not buy your product with the intention of being disappointed, and once you have disappointed them at that all important first moment of truth(a term used across the industry to describe the point at which the customer first opens your product and decides whether their money was well spent, or if you have let them down) it is your job to understand that they WILL be upset, and that you cannot control their reaction, because people get upset in different ways, and if it wasn't for your crappy quality control, they would not currently have a reason to be upset. At this point, any GOOD customer service rep would weather the storm and then proceed to try and please their customer, so as not to lose them as a customer.

    Please stop assuming that just because you have worked in customer service, you understand what GOOD customer service is. I made a career out of it, I gave my entire self to satisfying customers, which is why I get so upset when I run into BAD customer service.

    Stop making excuses for them, I know that everyone wants to be the one to stand up and say "quit complaining, suck it up" but it gets real old real fast, and it really shows how much you guys undervalue yourselves as consumers.


  3. #13
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    I respectfuly disagree.

    I didn't start by "throwing a tantrum", MONTHS of incompetent idiots not doing their jobs, followed by a couple of messages that were flat out IGNORED caused me to try harder to get their attention.

    This illustrates the difference between GOOD customer service and POOR customer service. Just because you work, or have worked in customer service, doesn't mean you provide(d) GOOD customer service. Good customer service doesn not just ignore a ticked off customer, they try to understand what it is that their company has done to tick that person off in the first place and solve the problem. The organizations across the globe with a history of impeccable customer service all follow that same formula.

    The customer is not a HINDRANCE to your work, they are the reason for it. You have a job because you keep them satisfied. A customer does not buy your product with the intention of being disappointed, and once you have disappointed them at that all important first moment of truth(a term used across the industry to describe the point at which the customer first opens your product and decides whether their money was well spent, or if you have let them down) it is your job to understand that they WILL be upset, and that you cannot control their reaction, because people get upset in different ways, and if it wasn't for your crappy quality control, they would not currently have a reason to be upset. At this point, any GOOD customer service rep would weather the storm and then proceed to try and please their customer, so as not to lose them as a customer.

    Please stop assuming that just because you have worked in customer service, you understand what GOOD customer service is. I made a career out of it, I gave my entire self to satisfying customers, which is why I get so upset when I run into BAD customer service.

    Stop making excuses for them, I know that everyone wants to be the one to stand up and say "quit complaining, suck it up" but it gets real old real fast, and it really shows how much you guys undervalue yourselves as consumers.

    Frankly you're lucky they didn't hang up on you when you started berating them. If you want good customer service, act like a good customer.

    For someone that's given his entire being to GOOD customer service, maybe try reversing the roles a little bit. Put yourself in their shoes. If someone's screaming at them over cards that they, by their own admission, have such little value, what's their incentive to respond favourably to you?

    I have defused enough situations and enough people in my day to know when to work with someone and where to tell them to go to the corner and calm down a little bit.

    You tried the squeaky wheel gets the grease approach and it backfired on you. Try giving a little sugar, you might get some back.
    Last edited by RGM81; 09-18-2014 at 02:27 PM.
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  4. #14







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    Going back to how much any of us are "valued" as a customer - the answer is pretty simple: We aren't. We're insignificant numbers to big corporations (be that Panini, Home Depot, Shell, or Time Hortons). We do not have the power to affect their business.


    Ho ho ho!! See my signature down below? Remember my sad rant against UD months ago, where I vowed to boycott them til the end of my existence? I bought a box of OPC a couple weeks ago, so I obviously value myself less than UD does.......

  5. #15




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    Frankly you're lucky they didn't hang up on you when you started berating them. If you want good customer service, act like a good customer.

    For someone that's given his entire being to GOOD customer service, maybe try reversing the roles a little bit. Put yourself in their shoes. If someone's screaming at them over cards that they, by their own admission, have such little value, what's their incentive to respond favourably to you?

    I have defused enough situations and enough people in my day to know when to work with someone and where to tell them to go to the corner and calm down a little bit.

    You tried the squeaky wheel gets the grease approach and it backfired on you. Try giving a little sugar, you might get some back.

    I tried the sugar approach, THREE times before it got ugly. Only once I started getting ignored did I change my approach.

    Frankly, I think you should try approaching this reasonably. Instead of putting the entire blame on collectors for getting upset maybe you should consider this:

    1. Panini produced the damaged product - IT IS NOT THE CUSTOMERS' FAULT

    2. If the product needs to be sent back tracked PANINI should pay the cost, with a postage paid box or envelope sent out to the customer, similar to a cell phone or Cable company asking you to send back your phone or cable box. The Customer has already bought the product and been let down, therefor the customer should not be forced to put out additional funds just to get something fixed that should never have been an issue in the first place, and has already been paid for once.

    3. Customer service is about dealing with people who may be upset, if I was suffering from some sort of diagnosed mental condition and was honestly having an episode over how important those cards were to me, would it be appropriate to tell me to calm down or you won't deal with me, or to ignore me? If you are in customer service you should have thicker skin.

    Stop blaming collectors for not looking out for themselves.

    What you're doing is equivalent to getting the wrong order in a McDonalds Drive through, driving home 20 miles and then realizing the food is wrong. When you call to complain would you expect them to tell you that it is your fault for not checking the bag before you drove away? Maybe you should have, but does that make it your fault that the order was screwed up to begin with? Does the fact that you swear on the phone mean that they are no longer obligated to replace that order?

    Come on man.

    Get serious, I'm sick of this "you can't treat me that way" attitude. Customer service reps are not kids, if they can't take it maybe they should find another job to pretend to do.

  6. #16
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    1. Panini produced the damaged product - IT IS NOT THE CUSTOMERS' FAULT

    You are right. Probably. It might also be a distributor or shipper's fault.... but I'd bet it's Panini's.

    2. If the product needs to be sent back tracked PANINI should pay the cost, with a postage paid box or envelope sent out to the customer, similar to a cell phone or Cable company asking you to send back your phone or cable box. The Customer has already bought the product and been let down, therefor the customer should not be forced to put out additional funds just to get something fixed that should never have been an issue in the first place, and has already been paid for once.

    Why should they? I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of them, I'm not saying I don't think it's a good idea. I'm questioning why they should. What percentage of their customers end up in the same boat as you? (Damaged cards, AND live out of the USA where tracked shipping becomes expensive - and this is even an issue at all) 2% ?? 1%?? A fraction of 1% ?? Why would someone in a back room, making these kinds of policy decisions care if that small of a piece of their customer base is mad at them?

    3. Customer service is about dealing with people who may be upset, if I was suffering from some sort of diagnosed mental condition and was honestly having an episode over how important those cards were to me, would it be appropriate to tell me to calm down or you won't deal with me, or to ignore me? If you are in customer service you should have thicker skin.

    Yes it is (about dealing with people who are upset). I bet Panini (or any company) get very few phone calls letting them know how happy you were with a recent purchase. And it doesn't matter how appropriate it is that someone tells you to calm down (less they won't deal with you) or ignore you: That's what most customer service people do.

    Stop blaming collectors for not looking out for themselves.

    What you're doing is equivalent to getting the wrong order in a McDonalds Drive through, driving home 20 miles and then realizing the food is wrong. When you call to complain would you expect them to tell you that it is your fault for not checking the bag before you drove away? Maybe you should have, but does that make it your fault that the order was screwed up to begin with? Does the fact that you swear on the phone mean that they are no longer obligated to replace that order?

    Come on man.

    Get serious, I'm sick of this "you can't treat me that way" attitude. Customer service reps are not kids, if they can't take it maybe they should find another job to pretend to do.

    I don't read any of this as "blaming collectors" - it's calling it like it is. If you want Panini to replace a damaged card for you, they've go a process to follow. If you veer even slightly away from what they tell you to do - they're not going to do anything for you. That's pretty clear. Is it right? No. Are you right to be complaining about it? Yes. It's reality though.


    Weather you're sick of the "you can't treat me this way" attitude or not, you'd better get used to it. The thing is... those Customer service reps CAN take it. They are ARE taking it. They don't care. You say something they perceive to be negative to them? They've got the power to ignore you. That is how they take it. That's not to say it's right, but that's how it is.

  7. #17




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    I had the same problem with damaged or no hits in a box from Panini last year. Problem is you are told to send tracked. I know it costs over $30 as it cost me but I did get replacements and I got extras. If you cut corners you get burned.

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    Stop making excuses for them, I know that everyone wants to be the one to stand up and say "quit complaining, suck it up" but it gets real old real fast, and it really shows how much you guys undervalue yourselves as consumers.

    I would just like to point out that to some, not all, but some, these threads that are "anti-UD" or "anti-panini" are what is getting "old real fast". These threads have been ongoing for several months, and you must have had some sort of rational thought that somewhere in a round-about way, you may meet some resistance with a thread with this title, and the method of delivery the post has.

    Now, I'm not saying either side is right, and you have every right to be upset as a consumer of a product, but you have to try to anticipate the fact that people are going to defend Panini, if for any reason, to at least try to curb these types of posts. Which, in my opinion, is why this was reported. Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption though.

  9. #19




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    Back to your problem I fell like if Panini has no proof that they received a package from you/other customers how can they justify sending out cards to you. If they did this how many people would say they received damage cards that are not actually damaged and not actually send them. Now Panini is sending out thousands of dollars in cards in good faith of the customer even though they didn't receive anything back from you.

    I feel for you as we all here know that your a good person and great person to have in this hobby however you have to look at it from their prospective too. Im not on their side either (see my first post on page 1)
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  10. #20




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    Really if you don't send with tracking regardless of the cost ... the cost isn't Panini's fault .. what's to stop me ( besides my personal morals ) from phoning up Panini and claiming I sent them a damaged MacKinon ARP and want a new one now .

    Yes , your situation sucks , but in the end YOU cut a corner and didn't follow the rules .

    And the suggestion that Panini should send out prepaid envelopes to anybody that makes a claim , just like any other company , guess who in to end is going to be paying that cost .. yes that is right us the collectors will be paying more for wax

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