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  1. #181




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    and this is why liberals are not truly liberals. not only can they not accept other peoples differences, but they feel the need to attack them and assume they are superior to anyone who would think such nonsense.

    Though I do agree with the premise of the point that a law of any god should not dictate social law. I also think if you allow your personal morals to dictate what you deem to be socially correct, that perhaps you should look different.

    But I also find it far from liberal when you "put down" someone for their religious/cultural beliefs.

    I can find the flaw of trying to expect everyone else to accept this on a social level, but find a bigger flaw attacking someone beliefs rather than their application.

    why lump all liberals into a group based off of Habs single post. I get that people do that to conservatives. On both sides it's just not the case. All of that said I also find it frustrating that beach keeps classifying posts as rhetoric instead of actually discussing the topic. I assume that he is frustrated as well and led him to this statement about his beliefs. For a person of no faith it is very frustrating when people us religious laws as evidence as to why something should be. I get that people of faith are typically very invested in their faith and it a very large part of their life, but that doesn't mean all of that should be law for everyone in this country to follow...(which is essentially what you mentioned above so we are in agreement on that)

  2. #182




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    You obviously missed my sarcasm and the mocking of you for this comment.




    Thanks for playing. You wrote it, I quoted it, and I'm mocking it.

    Why just come on here and mock? Why not have an actual discussion? I get that other do the same thing, but why not stand above? So many people have to take things personal and it just derails the conversation.

  3. #183




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    why lump all liberals into a group based off of Habs single post.

    It is far from a single post by one poster on here. It seems that this is the norm, but you are right, I should not stereotype.

    I do agree that religious laws should not and cannot be the bases for social law. It is simply not possible.

  4. #184




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    It's not because I say it's meaningless. It's because we are free to religiously believe anyway we choose in this country. Why should one religion... even if it is the majority... get to use their religious rules to legislate. If you think about it if it were reversed you wouldn't be for it either. A lot of christians have been talking about sharia law and fear mongering about it taking over the United States. Those people don't want a Islam to influence legislation but yet they hypocritically are okay with religious writing legislation as long as it is their religion. In reality no religion should dictate laws such as same sex marriage.

    There are some very simple things at play here and I am amazed they have to be spelled out. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. Do you think the things you believe it to be right, correct, just, etc.? Of course you do. Do you believe that what you believe is right for others and should be for others? Of course you do. I'm simply doing the same thing, its just not in agreement with you so I am wrong in your opinion. We are all the same, we do the things we believe in...am I so bad now?

    Also, you've used the words "jumped on" and "getting hammered". I hope that you honestly don't feel that way. I like this site because we are able to converse with people of various views and express our own. In that process I know that I sometimes reform ideas based off views that I may have not seen or experienced that are brought worth by various other members. If anything it just gives me different perspectives even if I don't agree with a certain opinion. I know things can get heated at times, but I always try to approach discussions respectfully.

    This one is sad. I have explained the context of this several times. You may not know it, but I am having fun with this stuff, passionate yes! But still having fun. I like sarcasm, keeping it light when possible. This all started when Andrew got a little to sensitive about liberals getting ganged up on so I made a couple jokes. i.e. "I guess I'm going it alone", "I'm getting hammered" I even put a smiley face or LOL after it to explain it to people like you that don't get it.

    why lump all liberals into a group based off of Habs single post. I get that people do that to conservatives. On both sides it's just not the case. All of that said I also find it frustrating that beach keeps classifying posts as rhetoric instead of actually discussing the topic. I assume that he is frustrated as well and led him to this statement about his beliefs. For a person of no faith it is very frustrating when people us religious laws as evidence as to why something should be. I get that people of faith are typically very invested in their faith and it a very large part of their life, but that doesn't mean all of that should be law for everyone in this country to follow...(which is essentially what you mentioned above so we are in agreement on that)

    Obviously words like "all" and "everybody" are easy fodder for any opposing viewpoint to prey on. Shrew got me doing this exact same thing and I had to eat crow in a different thread but lets get off of the semantics and use our brains...usually we are talking about "most" or a large percentage of a group. I would stand by Shrew's post that MOST liberals feel its ok to blast people that have opposing views than they do, in fact, most groups are free to do what they like except conservative christians BUT THIS ISN'T NEW and most of us are used to it.

  5. #185




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    It is far from a single post by one poster on here. It seems that this is the norm, but you are right, I should not stereotype.

    I do agree that religious laws should not and cannot be the bases for social law. It is simply not possible.

    Yeah, I see posts on both sides of the fence, so I get it and it's pretty much the status quo of political discussion everywhere these days. I just tire of seeing the "conservatives" are X and the "liberals" are Y. Myself, I get more defensive of the liberals posts as I lean that way more than I do conservatively and I definitely understand your stance from the other side.

  6. #186




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    There are some very simple things at play here and I am amazed they have to be spelled out. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. Do you think the things you believe it to be right, correct, just, etc.? Of course you do. Do you believe that what you believe is right for others and should be for others? Of course you do. I'm simply doing the same thing, its just not in agreement with you so I am wrong in your opinion. We are all the same, we do the things we believe in...am I so bad now?

    My side is not about what I personally believe. It's about gay couples being allowed to have the same recognition and benefits though marriage that straight couples receive. I get that you are religiously against gay marriage, that is fine, you are free to have that opinion, but why should that come into play with creating a law? There are things that I'm not personally for or partake in but that doesn't mean I'm trying to have it banned or made illegal. It's about allowing freedoms and offering the same opportunities to everyone. That's sort of the main focus of our countries foundation.



    This one is sad. I have explained the context of this several times. You may not know it, but I am having fun with this stuff, passionate yes! But still having fun. I like sarcasm, keeping it light when possible. This all started when Andrew got a little to sensitive about liberals getting ganged up on so I made a couple jokes. i.e. "I guess I'm going it alone", "I'm getting hammered" I even put a smiley face or LOL after it to explain it to people like you that don't get it.

    I'm not sure why it's sad, but I'm just not up to date with all of the other goings on in other posts so I didn't get that as a inside jokes. I don't post/read on this forum as much as I once did unless a topic has a good discussion. Most threads anymore devolve into nitpicking and bickering based off of bad blood. I steer clear of those, so I didn't get the gist of those posts. I thought you were being serious and didn't want you to feel ganged up on at least not by any of my posts.


    Obviously words like "all" and "everybody" are easy fodder for any opposing viewpoint to prey on. Shrew got me doing this exact same thing and I had to eat crow in a different thread but lets get off of the semantics and use our brains...usually we are talking about "most" or a large percentage of a group. I would stand by Shrew's post that MOST liberals feel its ok to blast people that have opposing views than they do, in fact, most groups are free to do what they like except conservative christians BUT THIS ISN'T NEW and most of us are used to it.

    I agree that it can be semantics, but when people say "ALL" it's a rather important word and definitely helps dictate a tone of the post.

    I don't subscribe to the theory that conservative christians are a group who are some how repressed from expressing their views. That said, if any view, from anyone, is trying to exclude others from having the same sort of benefits as another person, it will more than likely be met with debate.

  7. #187







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    Yeah, I see posts on both sides of the fence, so I get it and it's pretty much the status quo of political discussion everywhere these days. I just tire of seeing the "conservatives" are X and the "liberals" are Y. Myself, I get more defensive of the liberals posts as I lean that way more than I do conservatively and I definitely understand your stance from the other side.

    That is pretty much my same position. To be honest, my primary motivation in creating posts that lump liberals into one group is based on disgust with the constant lumping of conservatives into one group. On some level I am hoping that people will begin to grasp the irony of it. I certainly don't believe that all liberals are racists, but I have been lumped into the "racist conservatives" group so many times that I have become indignant about it. Just saying "I am not racist" is ignored by the idiots who like to label all conservatives racist, so I resort to starting threads like this in hopes of pushing my way through the thick fog in their feeble minds.

  8. #188




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    That is pretty much my same position. To be honest, my primary motivation in creating posts that lump liberals into one group is based on disgust with the constant lumping of conservatives into one group. On some level I am hoping that people will begin to grasp the irony of it. I certainly don't believe that all liberals are racists, but I have been lumped into the "racist conservatives" group so many times that I have become indignant about it. Just saying "I am not racist" is ignored by the idiots who like to label all conservatives racist, so I resort to starting threads like this in hopes of pushing my way through the thick fog in their feeble minds.

    We are on the same page. I know that conservative have been accused of some rather idiotic things in this forum simply because they are conservative to some degree and likewise to liberals. I can usually pick out members who honestly believe those claims from the ones who don't... mainly based off of other post and if they are intelligent or not. I do get throw sometimes when I'm not yet familiar with a certain member.

  9. #189




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    My side is not about what I personally believe. It's about gay couples being allowed to have the same recognition and benefits though marriage that straight couples receive. I get that you are religiously against gay marriage, that is fine, you are free to have that opinion, but why should that come into play with creating a law? There are things that I'm not personally for or partake in but that doesn't mean I'm trying to have it banned or made illegal. It's about allowing freedoms and offering the same opportunities to everyone. That's sort of the main focus of our countries foundation.

    I'm not sure why it's sad, but I'm just not up to date with all of the other goings on in other posts so I didn't get that as a inside jokes. I don't post/read on this forum as much as I once did unless a topic has a good discussion. Most threads anymore devolve into nitpicking and bickering based off of bad blood. I steer clear of those, so I didn't get the gist of those posts. I thought you were being serious and didn't want you to feel ganged up on at least not by any of my posts.

    I agree that it can be semantics, but when people say "ALL" it's a rather important word and definitely helps dictate a tone of the post.

    I don't subscribe to the theory that conservative christians are a group who are some how repressed from expressing their views. That said, if any view, from anyone, is trying to exclude others from having the same sort of benefits as another person, it will more than likely be met with debate.

    I can respect what you are saying. I'm going to drop the debate on gay marriage, you guys don't even know how many gay friends I have had over the years, I don't hate gay people, I was just defending a position.

    Remember one thing about the Believer...the Believer will one day stand before God as his judge and have to make an account for his/her life. Believers, at least the ones I know, will most certainly put pleasing God before pleasing man's whims. You can argue right and wrong all day about this but this is just an insight to the Believer.

    Peace Out!

  10. #190




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    Remember one thing about the Believer...the Believer will one day stand before God as his judge and have to make an account for his/her life. Believers, at least the ones I know, will most certainly put pleasing God before pleasing man's whims. You can argue right and wrong all day about this but this is just an insight to the Believer.

    Not all believers believe they will be judged by their god or any god. I can respect personal ethics based on religion, culture, and lifestyle, but if you look at things from every angle you will see what you may think is ethically correct for you may not have a viable application in society. Though I often wish they did, they simply do not.

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