Trying to understand Republican logic on what Barack Obama is doing....

[37jetson]

I've witnessed first hand just how needed the 'illegals' (and, I use that term lightly, because nobody is illegal, anywhere. This Earth belongs to us all. If you have a dream, and want to plant it in the USA, then come on over) are, and without them, farmers in California would go out of business and there would me a MASSIVE food shortage everywhere in the world. People do not want to pay much for these veggies and crops, and so farmers cannot pay their workers good wages. If they were to pay minimum wage, the cost of this food would skyrocket, and people wouldn't buy the food. Very few Americans are willing to go through the strenuous labor for very low wages, and without these immigrants, the food would not be able to be harvested. The government of California basically turns their head and doesn't do anything about it because they know just how crucial these people are to the economy.

Think about it, if you didn't have a job, would you work 12-13 hours a day in a hot field, doing hard, manual labor, for $2-3 dollars an hour?

Let me put this in terms that will hit home with you. The Purdue degree that you are about to pursue will require a lot of intelligence, effort and money. After you graduate you get a great job for $55K and buy yourself that nice car that you have earned. Fast forward five years to your work promotion taking your salary to over $80K which comes in handy because you have a wife and a baby on the way in your brand new house. Kind of sounds like the American Dream, eh? Well some politicians get bribed enough that they decide that they are going to change to immigration and the work rules which allows your profession to be flooded with people from China, India, Eastern Europe that are willing to do your job for $30K. What will you think of your government at that point?

[Imac7065]

1) For your scoffing and indignation pleasure:
Lower Participation = Lower Unemployment Rate. As high as the unemployment numbers are, they still overstate the economy’s performance. Since the recession began, the labor force participation rate—the proportion of adults either working or trying to find work—has fallen by 3.2 percentage points. The government counts only people actively looking for jobs as unemployed. The drop in labor force participation accounts for almost the entire net drop in the unemployment rate over the past five years.
Another measure of the state of the labor market is the employment–population ratio. This ratio shows employees as a proportion of all adults, both those looking for work and those outside the labor force. During the recession, the employment–population ratio fell sharply and the unemployment rate increased. Since then, the unemployment rate has improved modestly. The employment–population ratio barely increased.

The unemployment rate peaked at 10.0 percent in October 2009 and currently stands at 6.3 percent. The employment–population ratio has gone from 58.5 percent to 58.9 percent during this time. Unemployment has fallen because fewer Americans are looking for work, not because more Americans are finding jobs. Since the recession ended, job creation has only slightly exceeded population growth.



2) Regarding the deficit please reread the chart to see that Obama's best projected deficit (this year per your article) is still greater than any single year deficit that we have had since 1992. Whoop de do that he has cut the deficit in half after TRIPLING the deficit.

So you try to prove you aren't spinning by doubling down on spin? LOL... once again, if you have to manipulate facts to prove a point, then you aren't giving facts.

And Obama tripled the deficit? Really? The collapse of the entire economic system in 2008 had ZERO EFFECT on this? Hmm. I guess in your world view the stimulus, car bailout, bank bailout, and every other BS we went through in 08-09 was happening because we dared elect a democrat? haha

[Imac7065]

[QUOTE=shrewsbury;13632149]

stop trying to spin into your own world view. If you have to manipulate the facts.. they are no longer facts.[/QUOTE

a smaller participation rate means more people getting government help and giving up trying to find a job. It is not a "spin" on anything. leaving out a major fact to make yours seem legit, is the only spin going on.

For the third time now... we've used the exact same calculation method for the unemployment rate for as long as we've been keeping track. The same rates under Bush, Reagan, Nixon, etc etc etc.... if you want to re write the method of calculation, go get an economics degree, work your way up to the head of the department of labor, and go for it. Until then, use the same math Bush used in 2004 for discredit people pointing out the negative job growth he had in 2003-04

[andrewhoya]

I want to sing kumbaya now. Anyone want to join me? Sorry Andrew just a little fun, I know you're a young buck and have some idealistic dreams...I was this way too and as a kid, I dreamed of ways to make it illegal to throw away aluminum cans and recycle 100% of them...that dream failed too.

Anyway, if illegals gain legal status, would they be entitled to minimum wage, seemed like the only way this stuff worked was for them to stay under the radar and get paid under the table.

That's not a 'young buck' view...millions of people share the same ideology. Theres a difference in believing that throwing away a can should be illegal and believing that imaginary lines should not dictate where human beings can and cannot go.

As for the minimum wage, I for one do not believe there should be one...or, if there is one, have different levels of minimum wage for different jobs and industries.

[andrewhoya]

Let me put this in terms that will hit home with you. The Purdue degree that you are about to pursue will require a lot of intelligence, effort and money. After you graduate you get a great job for $55K and buy yourself that nice car that you have earned. Fast forward five years to your work promotion taking your salary to over $80K which comes in handy because you have a wife and a baby on the way in your brand new house. Kind of sounds like the American Dream, eh? Well some politicians get bribed enough that they decide that they are going to change to immigration and the work rules which allows your profession to be flooded with people from China, India, Eastern Europe that are willing to do your job for $30K. What will you think of your government at that point?

Many flaws in your argument.


After I graduate I will be making ~$9-19 dollars an hour, pre tax, for my main full-time job, for about 40-50 hours a week, as well as maintaining a part time job making $12-20 an hour at nights.
After a year or so, I hope to move onto a better full time job to make, at most, $25 an hour, with only 75-80 hours a month guaranteed. I'll still be at the part time job and will be either living at home or in a crash pad with 10-15 other people.
I will continue to pay off the ~$200,000+ in college loans I have amassed, despite making only $18-25,000 a year for quite a few years.

Second flaw: I currently have little desire to stay and work in America. I will likely end up working in China or the Middle East, where working and living conditions are far better, and pay is almost ten times better in some cases.

[andrewhoya]

Many flaws in your argument.


After I graduate I will be making ~$9-19 dollars an hour, pre tax, for my main full-time job, for about 40-50 hours a week, as well as maintaining a part time job making $12-20 an hour at nights.
After a year or so, I hope to move onto a better full time job to make, at most, $25 an hour, with only 75-80 hours a month guaranteed. I'll still be at the part time job and will be either living at home or in a crash pad with 10-15 other people.
I will continue to pay off the ~$200,000+ in college loans I have amassed, despite making only $18-25,000 a year for quite a few years.

Second flaw: I currently have little desire to stay and work in America. I will likely end up working in China or the Middle East, where working and living conditions are far better, and pay is almost ten times better in some cases.

But, to your point that I know you were attempting to make, if somebody else can do the same work I am doing, but for cheaper, than kudos to him/her.

[gsj68]

I want to sing kumbaya now. Anyone want to join me? Sorry Andrew just a little fun, I know you're a young buck and have some idealistic dreams...I was this way too and as a kid, I dreamed of ways to make it illegal to throw away aluminum cans and recycle 100% of them...that dream failed too.

Anyway, if illegals gain legal status, would they be entitled to minimum wage, seemed like the only way this stuff worked was for them to stay under the radar and get paid under the table.

in Oregon we have a 5 cent refund on aluminum cans,be a fool to throw them away,people walking collect them,boyscouts and youth sports teams go door to door asking for them

[Imac7065]

Since no one seems to be responding to the thread I wrote about it.... I would love to hear the right wing posters on here response to the republican 2 year report absolving the White House, State Department, and basically anyone but the criminals who attacked the consulate in Benghazi?

[37jetson]

My source is the same as your source, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (compiled by the Heritage Foundation). When you can't argue a point you simply state that I am not giving you facts. Well what I am showing you is in black and white.

Can Obama be blamed for the entire deficit when he inherited a world wide recession, no is the answer. He has had nearly six years to do something about the deficit and he has not done so. I will save you the "he inherited all of this from Bush" jive because you could then make the same argument about the first six years of the Clinton Presidency.

So you try to prove you aren't spinning by doubling down on spin? LOL... once again, if you have to manipulate facts to prove a point, then you aren't giving facts.

And Obama tripled the deficit? Really? The collapse of the entire economic system in 2008 had ZERO EFFECT on this? Hmm. I guess in your world view the stimulus, car bailout, bank bailout, and every other BS we went through in 08-09 was happening because we dared elect a democrat? haha

[Imac7065]

My source is the same as your source, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (compiled by the Heritage Foundation). When you can't argue a point you simply state that I am not giving you facts. Well what I am showing you is in black and white.

Can Obama be blamed for the entire deficit when he inherited a world wide recession, no is the answer. He has had nearly six years to do something about the deficit and he has not done so. I will save you the "he inherited all of this from Bush" jive because you could then make the same argument about the first six years of the Clinton Presidency.

When clinton left office we had a national surplus.. when bush left office we had a nearly trillion dollar deficit that ballooned all the way to 1.67 trillion by the end of 2009. These are facts... today we are under 500 billion from that 1.67 trillion. Yet you sit here trying to spin that into excuses, manipulations, and just can't accept the reality that believe it or not.. the things you and the republicans have railed against since 2008... HAVE WORKED lol.

-Cash for clunkers... worked
-Car bailout.... worked
- Stimulus... worked (and should have been bigger)
-Obamacare... working

the only thing that hasn't worked out for the american people is the bank bailout that was started under bush. The car companies paid us back, a lot of banks have not. Not a single person has gone to jail for the criminal actions of the banks, and that to me is absolutely disgusting. Obama should have never appointed the exact people who caused the chaos to run the treasury.