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Thread: Kerry Fraser Admits NHL Refs Have Player Biases...and Brendan Gallagher Confirms It
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11-24-2014, 07:07 PM #11
I agree, Fraser's article is pretty widespread in the net it casts. It just happens that the day after that article comes out from Fraser, there's a clear cut scenario of Gallagher getting messed with without consequence or penalty, and then he addressed exactly what Fraser was talking about.
Even if there's a list...and if the zebras want to keep one, fine...to have an official flat-out tell a player on the ice that "yeah what happened is penalty but not on you because you're on the list" is blatantly unprofessional. Their job is to call the game. Doesn't matter if Chris Lee gets shown up one freezing night in January, it's not Tim Peel's job to protect his "brother" ten months down the road to get back at the player. If that happened in any other employment situation where there's a power differential, i.e. if my boss is giving out bonuses to everybody on staff, but I don't get one and she says it's because I made a joke six months ago that she didn't like, well that's petty. And I'd complain to HR. Because I make a lot of jokes, I don't even remember what I said yesterday most of the time.
Yeah it's definitely something that goes beyond the scope of just the Habs. And Brendan Gallagher is far from the first player that's flat-out said that there's double standards out there. All you have to do is watch a Bruins game and see the garbage they routinely get away with...Habs fan and collector! Main PC's: Carey Price, Nick Suzuki, Cole Caufield, Juraj Slafkovsky, and of course...
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11-25-2014, 12:31 AM #12
I will agree that if it is a blatant penalty, it should of been called. I don't care if he is on a list of divers or not. Truthfully I like the way Gallagher plays most of the time, I have no tolerance for diving. But the rest of the time that little hobbit is flying up and down the ice playing a 200 ft game most players can only dream of. However, as I also said, without seeing the play I can't comment on whether or not I think it was a missed call or a blatant oversight. Considering the number of missed calls I have seen this year around the league it would be pretty easy to believe it was a missed called, however there have been other calls where I have been left scratching my head because the official is looking right at it.PC Players: Hidden Content , Hidden Content , Hidden Content , Hidden Content & Hidden Content
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11-25-2014, 01:08 AM #13
I would probably of commented on the complete post in more detail but your last statement about Lucic two handing Price, or Phaneuf stabbing Subban is ridiculous in itself; but that Bruins/Leafs fans would find a reason why they deserve it is either, one of the dumbest things I have ever read and you have no impartiality at all, or you are trolling. The rest of the stuff is exaggerated in this post and your previous one, but the last comment shows you have little to no grasp on reality when it comes to the merits of the actual conversation that was going on before you posted.
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11-25-2014, 02:19 AM #14
Wow, so if I try to use an extreme example to prove a point it is just totally lost on you.
Yeah, I guess that makes ME the idiot here.
My grasp on reality is just fine, obviously much better than your ability to think beyond the literal.
The last efforts of someone who knows they cannot keep up with a debate is to start picking apart flaws in language. The fact is, I don't actually believe that you are a complete idiot, so I have to believe that you understand the concept of exaggeration(which is clearly what was going on in regards to my statement about Price getting two handed or Subban getting stabbed by a skate). You are doing a great disservice to both of us and our level of intelligence by pretending not to understand that just to have something(anything really) to say to refute my point. As far as trolling, get real man, I contributed to the debate. At no point did I attack you or any other specific party, I simply made my point. Apparently it hit a bit too close to home and you felt the need to belittle me("one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, or you are trolling").
Just to make another point, just because Gallagher gets knocked down a lot, doesn't make him a diver, he plays the game with grit and most of the tough guys who are knocking him around outweigh him by 40lbs or more. He gets knocked down a lot because he is SMALLER than most people on the ice. The fact is that those of smaller stature will end up spending alot of time knocked down on the ice, just like Gallagher. The Bruins are a prime example, they pound on guys who are half their size, then whine to the refs about diving. The fact is, not every fall is a dive. Gallagher may fall down, but he gets back up and refuses to be intimidated. The only reason why other teams full of bigger guys hate him is because as with most bullies, they can't stand it when a smaller individual shows that they won't be allow size to be a factor, they will not be pushed around.
I would take a Gallagher over a Lucic or a Phaneuf any day of the week.Last edited by adamslogik; 11-25-2014 at 02:23 AM.
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11-25-2014, 02:05 PM #15
So in your first post you start of by dismissing comments about the Habs by first agreeing that there is a bias and that the claims just make sense. Then further dismiss any comments by non-Habs fans because they hate the Habs, you then say it is because of the deep ties to French culture and then say you have "literally never" had a conversation with anybody outside of Quebec who doesn't have a problem with "all the French" so while you complain about a lack of impartiality on the part of people who aren't Habs fans, you make a dramatic statement that shows you yourself are going to have problems with impartiality, no matter what is said by anyone not a Habs fan.
you also fail to take anytime to talk about any one of the three plays Richard mentions.
My observation about Gallagher mentions him directly because that is what the thread was about. As for your experiences, I can't of had the same ones; I'm just an Anglophone who grew up on the Quebec border, have Francophone friends from both sides and equally saw bigotry from both sides and both languages. Two totally different situations, with a few similarities as well.
The fact is that the Habs are the most hated team in the league, and have been for decades. Since the ownership, the administration, the coaching staff, the players and the system itself and even the building have all changed countless times during the last 60 or so years, we have to look at what remains the same to understand where the hatred comes from. The only things that remain are the fact that the Habs are the winnigest franchise in NHL history and the fact that they are the ONLY NHL team with a deep francophone heritage.
So pick your Poison, Jealousy or Prejudice, but whatever the reason, the hatred felt toward the habs can not be attributed to the Preds, the Devils, the Rangers or the Red Wings.
Like I said, Lucic could 2 hand Carey Price across the mask tomorrow, or Phaneuf could take off his skate and stab Subban Happy Gilmour style and Bruin/Leaf fans(along with most of the rest of the league) would find a reason why they deserved it and it isn't a penalty. THAT is not normal, that is a special kind of hate, the kind that transcends logic and crosses into the emotional realm. Hatred THAT deep, is the kind that closes peoples minds.
Your fact that the Habs are the most hated team in the League is without reference or citation. I know there is probable comparison for the Leafs, the Bruins, and maybe even the Flyers in the running for that category. Anything that has ever been written about it, is usually in itself biased by being a regional story, but Fans of respective teams love to latch on to it either as a point of pride, and some as a point of victimization when the going gets rough or someone speaks critical of your team.
While some may be Jealous of the teams performance, and yes in Montreal's case some prejudice, there are lots of fans who hate other teams because they are rivals. And we/Media/Teams/NHL build and market it that way. What is the best way to build fanatics of a team? Give them somebody to hate.
Your exaggeration did nothing to help prove your point, so I called you on it. It was a dumb way to argue a point as it did nothing but show you don't take the views of Bruins and Leafs fans as serious. You insulted two fan bases. I kept it to you and gave you the benefit of the doubt about whether it was the dumbest thing I had read on here or if you were trolling as you did not add to the conversation and tried to inflame the conversation, with your additional response after I am comfortable sticking with it being a trolling comment.
See above
Yeah, I guess that makes ME the idiot here.
Nah, I'm comfortable with my trolling comment
My grasp on reality is just fine, obviously much better than your ability to think beyond the literal.
The last efforts of someone who knows they cannot keep up with a debate is to start picking apart flaws in language. The fact is, I don't actually believe that you are a complete idiot, so I have to believe that you understand the concept of exaggeration(which is clearly what was going on in regards to my statement about Price getting two handed or Subban getting stabbed by a skate). You are doing a great disservice to both of us and our level of intelligence by pretending not to understand that just to have something(anything really) to say to refute my point. As far as trolling, get real man, I contributed to the debate. At no point did I attack you or any other specific party, I simply made my point. Apparently it hit a bit too close to home and you felt the need to belittle me("one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, or you are trolling").
OK, so seeing as you are now saying you contributed to the "debate" how about actually sharing your views on the plays Richard discussed, and whether or not Gallagher was being treated unfairly in reference to those two plays. That you haven't done, you've gone on about the hatred of the Habs and that is it.
Just to make another point, just because Gallagher gets knocked down a lot, doesn't make him a diver, he plays the game with grit and most of the tough guys who are knocking him around outweigh him by 40lbs or more. He gets knocked down a lot because he is SMALLER than most people on the ice. The fact is that those of smaller stature will end up spending alot of time knocked down on the ice, just like Gallagher. The Bruins are a prime example, they pound on guys who are half their size, then whine to the refs about diving. The fact is, not every fall is a dive. Gallagher may fall down, but he gets back up and refuses to be intimidated. The only reason why other teams full of bigger guys hate him is because as with most bullies, they can't stand it when a smaller individual shows that they won't be allow size to be a factor, they will not be pushed around.
I would take a Gallagher over a Lucic or a Phaneuf any day of the week.
In reference to one of the plays Richard discusses Gallagher does clearly dive, he has done it before, and he will probably do it again. like Marchand, like Burrows, like Kesler, and many others. No one is saying that "every time he gets hit it is a dive". But as nobody has either given me a time reference so I can look up the missed call, or the video itself I can't comment on the play with St. Louis. Unfortunately because he does have a reputation for diving if the play is marginal the Ref may let it go for fear that he is calling a penalty that should not be called.
you also don't comment on the third play which does not involve Gallagher in which Richard believes the ref lost sight of the puck, and that price was being interfered with. Once again one person mentions being able to see the puck, Richard acknowledges that but shares he still thinks the ref loses sight. I reference the overhead view where I can see the crease is now clear of Flyers so no Rule 69.3 ruling, and that you can watch the refs head turning as the puck is moving so I believe that he doesn't lose sight.
Whether there is impartiality or not against the Habs isn't evident in two of the three plays, and I couldn't comment outside of supposition to the third.
That is what this was about, not about the supposed hatred of the Habs because of bigotry towards the French; you added that to a perfectly good conversation with points from both sides.
Oh and I would take Gallagher over Phaneuf any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I would take his occasional diving penalty over Phaneuf's turnovers in a heartbeat.
On a lighter note, my auto-correct adds a nasty phrase when I try to type Phaneuf with an "s" at the end. I am so glad I caught that... not because I don't mean it about Phaneuf, but the language was nasty.Last edited by mikecole141; 11-25-2014 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Fixed a quotation mark and a spelling error
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11-25-2014, 03:20 PM #16
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*** adamslogik stares up at the HUGE wall of closed minded dribble above and elects to walk away rather than to beat his head against it.
Congratulations sir, I have neither the time nor the inclination to read the novel that you've typed up there.
It is obvious that your unfounded hatred toward all things Hab is far deeper rooted than I could ever have imagined.
I apologize on behalf of the entire organization for it's French roots, it's history of winning, and for the fact that obviously at some point; long, long ago, a Montreal Canadien murdered your Great Great Grand Pappy and lay with his widow. Your contempt toward the entire team is well founded and I respect it.
I am unsubscribing from this thread to ensure that I don't waste any more time on it. I've made my point, and you disagree. I can live with that(just like I can live without reading a single word of your last post, which will obviously be complete nonsense).
Good bye and good day.
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11-25-2014, 05:07 PM #17
Your loss, and there is nothing in any of my comments that shows an unfounded hatred of all things Habs. As for calling the comments, which reference everything you wrote, a huge wall of close minded dribble, how would you know this if you had neither the time nor the inclination to read it. A thread started to discuss whether some plays about Gallagher were biased calls and you dismiss all of it without addressing any of the referenced points because of your own close minded bias.
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
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