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Thread: U.S. jobs

  
  1. #1




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    U.S. jobs

    Due to a loophole in his affordable care act, us presdent barack obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants now gives firms an incentive of $3,000 per employee not to hire U.S citizens, according to a november 25 washington times report. the presidents proclamation allows illegal immigrants to obtain work permits but not public benefits as obamacre. this makes them much more affordable to hire???

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    This is a bit cumbersome for me to run through at the moment but it is safe to say that this is talk radio fodder, nothing more.

    The series of events that would have to take place for this situation to occur will never happen.

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    This is a bit cumbersome for me to run through at the moment but it is safe to say that this is talk radio fodder, nothing more.

    The series of events that would have to take place for this situation to occur will never happen.

    It actually is true. While immigrants are going thru the 13 year process to gain legal status under the prescribed steps set forth by Obama's "amnesty" presidential order, they are not eligible for US Federal benefits. Benefits include Social Security, welfare, HUD, WIC, CHIPs, unemployment...and Obamacare, since Obamacare is a Federally subsidized benefit program.

    Since they are not eligible, employers are not required to provide them health care nor are they subject to the $3000 per year penalty if their immigrant workers are uninsured. A pretty nice incentive to hire illegals. The caveat is that this only applies to new immigrants. Those that have been here for 5+ years can still buy coverage thru the exchanges.

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    It is "true" - in that you can say it on talk radio and not be called a liar but in practice it will never happen.

    Here are the circumstances that would have to be satisfied for this to become true in a realistic sense.

    1 - Employer qualifies for ACA (has 50 employees or more - roughly). Which is, what, under 5% of the employers. Of those 5% that qualify, about 90% already offer health care benefits.
    2 - $3,000 Fine - to hit the fine, Company X cannot offer insurance and has to have at least one employee qualify for subsidies in the ACA. Company X is then fined their number of employees minus 30 - that number times $3k.

    Illegals do not qualify for ACA which is why there is this so-called "loophole" - the theory is that if a company hired 60 illegals, they wouldn't be able to go to the marketplace and qualify for subsides. If only one employee qualifies, the fines are levied. So, technically, Company X could say that they would either hire all illegals or drop their existing healthcare employee program to try and take advantage of this "loophole" but more likely is the cost benefit of such churn both from an employee retention and public viewpoint stance would be cost prohibitive.

    The only way Company X could guarantee that this would be an effective loophole would be to only hire illegals - it is also unlawful to hire or fire employees based upon their ability to qualify for health care subsidies.


    So, it's something that can be discussed on talk radio to rile the troops but there really isn't any teeth to the claim.

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    Your theory is flawed in that it isn't required that someone hire 50 or 60 immigrants. They could have 500 employees and provide them with health insurance and then hire 10 immigrants and be free and clear on providing them with health insurance AND protected from the $3000 penalty. Thus, they would have incentive to hire illegal immigrants rather than citizens.

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    I am saying the only way for a company to insure success using this cost savings measure would be to hire only illegals - as then there would be no one who could potentially qualify for benefits.

    If, in your scenario, a company qualifies for ACA - then goes out and hires additional staff (illegals) to bypass the fine, they would be forced with a few issues that would seem to be more inefficient than cost effective.
    1) They would have to again make sure that all were illegals to make sure none would qualify
    2) Based on your statement, this company is offering health care options for over 500 employees and withholding them 10. So to potentially save $30k in fines this company is going to add on the risk and human resource expense of managing this process? Sounds like a stretch to me.
    3) It is still unlawful to hire illegals - and it is unlawful to hire/fire based upon access to ACA

    So, in your scenario, a fairly large company would have to throw caution to the wind to risk fairly severe penalty just to save a few thousand bucks on a potential fine. I guess it is possible that this COULD happen, I just can't imagine a solvent business making that kind of decision.

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    I am saying the only way for a company to insure success using this cost savings measure would be to hire only illegals - as then there would be no one who could potentially qualify for benefits.

    If, in your scenario, a company qualifies for ACA - then goes out and hires additional staff (illegals) to bypass the fine, they would be forced with a few issues that would seem to be more inefficient than cost effective.
    1) They would have to again make sure that all were illegals to make sure none would qualify
    2) Based on your statement, this company is offering health care options for over 500 employees and withholding them 10. So to potentially save $30k in fines this company is going to add on the risk and human resource expense of managing this process? Sounds like a stretch to me.
    3) It is still unlawful to hire illegals - and it is unlawful to hire/fire based upon access to ACA

    So, in your scenario, a fairly large company would have to throw caution to the wind to risk fairly severe penalty just to save a few thousand bucks on a potential fine. I guess it is possible that this COULD happen, I just can't imagine a solvent business making that kind of decision.

    1) Not that difficult. Non-English speaking is a good tipoff. Lacking legal paperwork is another one. Plus with Obama extending this "amnesty" thing there is little incentive for them to hide their status anymore as INS is no longer deporting anyone.
    2) What risk? What management? Saving $30,000 is pretty lofty incentive for a company with a tight spending limit. Being able to hire employees that you don't have to insure and you run no risk of being fined for insuring them is a hiring incentive whether you like it or not.
    3) It is not illegal to hire illegals who have started the citizenship process but are still not citizens. And it might be illegal to hire/fire based on the ACA, but try proving it in court. People are hired/fired every day based on gender, race, religion and just which side of the tracks you come from and it is rarely prosecuted or sued over, ACA is no different.

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    I get your points - I am just going to have to disagree that this will ever become a problem.

    I don't believe that a legitimately successful business will be actively breaking the law just to avoid the potential of a penalty. If it happens, it will be all over the usual outlest - if it doesn't, we'll never hear of it again.

    But just so you don't think I am shrugging off your points above...
    1) Language skills are not the case, at least on the west coast. A Spanish speaking individual may have a higher statistical probability of being an illegal than an English speaking individual but it certainly isn't anywhere near a sure thing (and remember, all it takes is one person to qualify).

    2) A company of that size, $30k really isn't huge part of the budget and the amount of human capital expended to avoid the potentail fee would off set a huge portion of the benefit. But also remember, the benefit would only be assumed should your company be fined.
    I will say that it would be interesting to see a full cost-based analysis on it. How much health care per individual costs, how much added expense to managing a program of illegals, rough chances of fine, etc. My gut tells me that you would spend 50% of the potential benefit just trying to avoid it instead of running a good business. Admittedly, that is just my gut, at times he just wants a donut and I read it wrong.

    3) The company would still be breaking the law. It may never be inforced but there may be crackdowns immediately to show people that eyes are watching - who knows. But I still can't imagine a respectable business making this part of their cost saving strategy.

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