Print run for a card xx/YY - does it mean all YY cards are garanteed to be in boxes?

[panok]

Hi

During my discussion with other Russian collectors we found a good point that is not clear for me.

Let's say I have a card with serial number XX of 50 copies. Let's say nice Crosby Auto out of 50.

Does it mean that serius manufacturer garantee that all 50 cards are in boxes in the very first day of big sale.

Or it can be that some cards were presented to player, some were stayed in manufacturer musium and some were not put in boxes becouse of presentation of serie on card show.

Sorry if my English is poor, will rephrase if needed :)

Please share what you know :)

Thank you in advance!

[mralex69]

I've been thinking the same thing many times. I think companies hold back cards. Just think of replacements on redemptions.

[panok]

Well, I believe - yes.

Question is if they announce somehow in some kind of "Release notes" or any other document such info?

[30ranfordfan]

I have received redemption replacements in the past, that were cards that were live in packs, so I'd say "yes" but I've never seen info that says so.

[theboxbreaker96]

There is no doubt in my mind that companies do not put all copies of a card in product. I have received a Sid Auto as a replacement once. I know UD didn't pay $100 to someone for it.

They definitely hold cards replacements and other things.

[Cunnuc]

I would assume that xx/50 then 50 cards do exist and are in boxes. Sometimes you will see a checklist or print run and let's say there are 20 players in the sub-set many of them will be numbered to /50 and some will have weird numbers like /35 or /25. Sometimes you see even stranger numbers like /44 when everyone else is /50. Maybe because some were damaged.

I liken all of this from the Pacific case when they went under a lot of cards were released with the foil where the number was supposed to be but there were no serial number. There is no doubt in my mind they have stock of most cards incase they need to re-print 17/50 r something as a replacement. I for one have 2 Datsyuk Rookie cards that are supposed to be /90 I believe (PAcific Premiere Date PArallel) but there is no serial number. I have the real Datsyuk Rookies as well. I bought each one for $5 from a seller many years ago who I was told bought a ton of Pacific's inventory when they went bankrupt.

Now I'm aware they don't have stock of better cards like auto patches and whatnot so they have to give out replacements.

I think if Upper Deck or whomever release let's say 10,000 boxes that all /50 cards are in those boxes upon release.

Obviously things happen when player agents (or whomever) are sending cards back to Upper Deck. Some entire cards go missing. They are in the checklist upon release but the cards do not exist.

[Gallinator]

I believe this may have changed over time. Back in the 90's, you would send in a damaged serial numbered card and sometimes receive back a new card with the SAME serial number hand-written instead of machined, meaning they destroyed the one you sent in (or something) and replaced it directly with the hand-written version. I haven't seen that sort of thing in many years, though, so now I believe they hold a certain amount back for replacements. I do NOT believe they store blank ones anymore.

To be clear, I think they do NOT put all of the cards in the boxes, but I have no proof of that at all.

[RGM81]

Not all cards of a print run are released. Upper Deck (and in the past, Panini) have always maintained a small percentage of "quality control" boxes that they break of a product to ensure collation, hits are all there as they should be, and also for replacement stock in the event of future quality control issues. If you pull card #22/50 of a card and it's damaged and you send it in, you may luck out and get another numbered copy of that card, or you may receive a replacement of a similar quality player.

[Cunnuc]

That's what I was trying to say :P

[panok]

It's quite a disappointing responses, looks like no chances to have all cards in boxes.

Why I am asking guys... I am from Russia and our main (and alone) manufacturer for KHL cards is Sereal located in Riga, Latvia. Every year they make fatal mistakes in collections - announce cards that never existed (Case hits that many of us was hunting for during years), puting the same cards (Autos) of different printrun (it was Chris Simon autos xx/50 and xx/30 from the same series with the same numbe on back), put materials on jrsey cards hat were never Game Worn (however it was stated it is GU), used "game used" sticks that were not recognized by players as being ever used by etc.

All these "misunderstandings" as they usually describe it on FB were not good but accepted by collector's comunity (since nothing else to collect - ha ha). However recently they made really new step in hobby - they starting to sell real hits through Ebay through "their" sellers. Just imagine - in 2012-13 Gold collection (this is most loaded and expensive collection in KHL) it was pulled very rare booklets "Solid Gold" with Ovie's letter + Auto - so 8 of them exist. And what we see now? Shop in LAtvia who always sells DeWalt equipment now sell also two Solid Gold cards of Malkin /6 and Ovechkin /8. To pull these cards they need to purchase maybe 30 cases and it was real luck to pull most expensive cards. Keeping in mind that 80-85% of all cases were imported to Russia it is getting clear that it was never pulled but just stored somewhere on Sereal side and now is being sold through shop of freinds. We know all suspicios shops where in October-November appeared handreds of really rare cards by moving of magic stick I guess. Gold rain over Riga :(

And now I am realizing that it is best practice for manufacturer to park aside a number of good cards for future purposes. I believe serious companies like Upper Deck will never leave Malkin letter /6 out of boxes but it is clear also that no rules exist here and formally speaking Sereal just dramatically icnreased what other does.