Rubio In The Lead

[duane1969]

I'm not sure I would qualify much of what you listed as "uber" left. Many of those are pretty typical liberal voting trends - there are a couple I would love to dig into a little further but not a lot that stands out here.

You mentioned that she was ranked as the 16th most liberal Senator - just curious as to where you got that information - not questioning it, would just like to see the list.

If accurate (I have no reason to believe that it isn't) even that doesn't really support your point that she is an "uber" liberal. Assuming for a second that this was her last term in the 111th Congress - that puts her 16th out of 57. I guess that is left of center when it comes to the Senate democrats but not spectacularly so.

As for the poll - I am skeptical of anything that comes in this early. In all honesty, I think the republicans are going to have a sizable uphill battle to the White House but I don't think it is insurmountable.

Current Vegas odds appear to be:
Clinton 11/10
Bush 7/1
Rubio 7/1
Walker 10/1
Warren 35/1
Paul 35/1

All of the info (voting record and liberal senator ranking) came from an independent site that documents voting records. I will have to try and find it again. My computer crashed and I lost all of my history.

Does her being ranked as the 16th most liberal senator support that she is "uber-liberal", perhaps not. I was using her voting record to claim that. Voting for partial birth abortions, supporting minors getting abortions out-of-state without the parents knowledge, protecting people burning the flag, advocating for a national gun registry...these are all things that the more liberal of Democrats support, thus uber-liberal.

The "16th most liberal senator" part was moreso to dispute any claim that she is moderate or centrist. I should have been more clear what my point was.

I am skeptical of head-to-head polls at this point as well, especially since I think the Clinton vs. Rubio thing was based on a CNN poll that included all adults, not just registered voters. The poll regarding GOP candidates is a little more telling tho because six weeks ago when nobody had declared they were running he was coming in somewhere between 6th and 8th behind Bush, Walker, Paul, Cruz, Carson and Christie. Now with Paul and Cruz declared he has passed them as well as Bush who was leading all GOP polls before. Paul and Cruz have gained nothing since declaring, Rubio has leapfrogged everyone since he declared.

[timber09]

I have certainly never thought of Hilary as a moderate - but that has just been based on my own observations.

Please post if you find the information on the Senate (or any) rankings, I am very curious to see how they all shake out.

[pwaldo]

I think it's Clinton II vs Bush III

THIS TIME IT'S PERSONAL!

More like

WHOEVER WINS WE LOSE!

[duane1969]

I have certainly never thought of Hilary as a moderate - but that has just been based on my own observations.

Please post if you find the information on the Senate (or any) rankings, I am very curious to see how they all shake out.

This is it http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/hillary_clinton.htm

Somewhere in that mess is where I found the link to the liberal Senate ranking thing.

[andrewhoya]

protecting people burning the flag, advocating for a national gun registry...these are all things that the more liberal of Democrats support, thus uber-liberal.

What is wrong with somebody wanting to burn their flag? That is their right. I'm not backing her up on the others, though...I'm against all abortion.

[duane1969]

What is wrong with somebody wanting to burn their flag? That is their right. I'm not backing her up on the others, though...I'm against all abortion.

For me personally, I see it as an affront to those who have fought to protect what the flag stands for and the rights that we are afforded by the government and society that it represents. Burning it doesn't offend the politicians or government because most of them do not care, it offends the military personnel that wore it on their shoulder into battle to fight for the ideals of a free society and democracy.

I see foreigners burning it all the time and I know what their intent is when they do it. When I see an American doing it I associate them and their reasons with those foreigners who do it because they hate our country and our society.

[habsheaven]

For me personally, I see it as an affront to those who have fought to protect what the flag stands for and the rights that we are afforded by the government and society that it represents. Burning it doesn't offend the politicians or government because most of them do not care, it offends the military personnel that wore it on their shoulder into battle to fight for the ideals of a free society and democracy.

I see foreigners burning it all the time and I know what their intent is when they do it. When I see an American doing it I associate them and their reasons with those foreigners who do it because they hate our country and our society.

Isn't being allowed to burn that flag one of those rights (freedom of expression)? A right they fought for and you want government to legislate it away? Makes little sense to me.

[deansayso]

For me personally, I see it as an affront to those who have fought to protect what the flag stands for and the rights that we are afforded by the government and society that it represents. Burning it doesn't offend the politicians or government because most of them do not care, it offends the military personnel that wore it on their shoulder into battle to fight for the ideals of a free society and democracy.

I see foreigners burning it all the time and I know what their intent is when they do it. When I see an American doing it I associate them and their reasons with those foreigners who do it because they hate our country and our society.

I agree 100% with that statement but it is their right.

[duane1969]

Isn't being allowed to burn that flag one of those rights (freedom of expression)? A right they fought for and you want government to legislate it away? Makes little sense to me.

Doing anything and everything you want is not protected by freedom of expression. The reason we call this a civilized society is because we have deemed certain things outside of the scope of how people are expected to act.

[habsheaven]

Doing anything and everything you want is not protected by freedom of expression. The reason we call this a civilized society is because we have deemed certain things outside of the scope of how people are expected to act.

Of course, not everything is protected but most limit that protection based on harm to another individual, not feelings being hurt. Maybe it's just me, but if the WBC is free to picket a soldier's funeral (at a distance), a protestor should be able to burn a flag.