For a fee, I'm happy to be your back-door man...

[RGM81]

I saw this posted via a hobby insider today.

Four complete sets of 2012-13 ITG Motown Madness Gold

The originally stated print run of the gold parallel set, according to the ITG website, is 10 copies.

Further research led me to this...

"More than 10" complete sets of 2012-13 ITG Forever Rivals Gold

The originally stated print run of the gold parallel set, according to the ITG website, is 30 copies.

There have been little tips and hints and innuendo that some of the "old ITG" stock has been hitting the market via irregular distribution channels.

I think that this pretty much confirms it. Let the Pacific comparisons begin in earnest.

This is indefensible.

[moosefan87]

How do we know that all of the stated /30 print run made it into the product release? Maybe some were held back for damage replacements, etc. I say that because when you get a redemption replacement from Panini or UD for a numbered auto or patch shouldn't that card be packed out?

[RGM81]

This has nothing to do with Upper Deck or Panini redemption replacement cards. Nothing.

Are you trying to suggest that ITG held back nearly 50% of the print run of these cards from the original release so that they could eventually sell full sets to a favoured source?

I'm not sure which option would be more outrageous: what you're suggesting, or that there's as many as 43 copies of cards that are supposed to be /30 on the market.

[moosefan87]

For the example given yes it does have something to do with redemption replacements as all that is product that is supposed to be released and is held back and that is the example I was giving.

Let's say 50% of the base gold sets were held back how is that more or less of an issue as say the UD 13-14 Sp Auth FWA's redemptions that were obviously short shipped but still out of 999? I don't remember seeing all the outrage over that.

I feel most collectors are extremely naive as to how ALL card companies operate and all of this (what I call group rage) over some base cards and a couple patch cards being released into circulation is actually concerning since there are larger more egregious issues that don't get a snippet of the attention as this has got over on that over forum.

This has nothing to do with Upper Deck or Panini redemption replacement cards. Nothing.

Are you trying to suggest that ITG held back nearly 50% of the print run of these cards from the original release so that they could eventually sell full sets to a favoured source?

I'm not sure which option would be more outrageous: what you're suggesting, or that there's as many as 43 copies of cards that are supposed to be /30 on the market.

[bdiam]

Someone that still visits this site allot more then I do sent me this link and we all had a laugh.

The Ultimate "Holier" than now "ITG has never done anything wrong" protector actually wrote something "almost negative" (although true) about the company that has never done anything wrong?

Funny that whenever anyone has posted anything negative about ITG or Leaf, they'll always been seen as a "hater" on this site but now that the bloom has come off of the roses and they are rotting in the ground, even the blind can see?

News flash, it's been going on for a long time and the months ahead will only see the flood gates opened further. Remember the HSHS point cards and how you could send them in for a card? Remember how people like myself posted seeing dealers with 9/10 copies of Patrick Roy and all of the better players? Yes, I'm sure these dealers opened product and sent in thousands of points, in order to obtain the 60-70 HSHS slabbed cards that they were showing off? They were also "just lucky" in that every time that they sent their points in, they got the best and the same player each time?

Collectors for the past 20-years have been pretty loyal to Upper Deck Young Guns and building those sets each year. However, with no license and no RC's in their products, it's hard to argue that there has been a more loyal group of collectors/buyers in the hobby, then the "core" group of ITG collectors that used to exist. For their loyalty, this is now their reward!

[subban7677]

Did Leaf acquire all the old stock with the takeover, errrr, merger? If so, these are Leaf shenanigans.

[bdiam]

Did Leaf acquire all the old stock with the takeover, errrr, merger? If so, these are Leaf shenanigans.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if it's the old ITG regime or the new clueless Leaf regime. The bottom-line / end-result is the same - the market is going to get flooded with ITG cards that loyal people spent their money on and the entire integrity and honesty of the assumed print-runs will mean nothing. Collectors will still have some great one-of-a-kind looking cards but for all intensive purposes, they will be worth a fraction of what they paid and in some cases, practically worthless.

What could be really exciting (maybe not for Leaf who will likely be solely liable at this point), is when the first lawsuit by a collector is filed. I'm old enough to remember 94-95 Topps Finest and how a collector was buying-up copies of certain players (Jagr?), all for the purpose of proving that the print-runs were false. He sued and if memory serves me, did quite well.

[comfortably9numb]

Perhaps they just made more while they were making them, intending on the surplus ones to be National promos or other things of that nature, and they went under quicker than imagined and liquidated their stock? I'm not saying its right, nor defending them, but it may be their logic.

[cygnusx1]

I'm almost 100% positive Leaf has nothing to do with this (someone with more knowledge can confirm?) so I don't think they deserve to be lumped in.

Pretty ridiculous stuff ITG is pulling.

Also I will be trademarking the phrase "Holier than now" because of how hilariously misunderstood the actual phrase can apparently be.

[manthis]

lol
nice title..
made me LOOK