For a fee, I'm happy to be your back-door man...

[Sharky94]

It's not a matter of investment that upsets people, it's the fact that hard earned money has been spent expecting one thing, and now realizing you have been given something different. Let's just hope there's a limited amount of stuff that will surface.

That is exactly my point! We have seen numerous times over the past couple decades that what card companies say is not exactly the truth. So if you spend your "hard earned money expecting one thing," you will often be disappointed.

[Sharky94]

Cards released with "stated" print runs never sat well with me.

That is one reason I have usually stayed away from ITG cards. With today's technology it is easy enough to put actual numbers on the cards. The fact that they did not want to go that one extra step, added to usually poor card designs (ie. cards without a picture of the player on it), turned me off in most cases.

[RGM81]

I actually think Kuba makes a good point. Cards released with "stated" print runs never sat well with me. Would it be so hard to believe that extra cards were printed for replacement, promotional or in-house purposes? if the "stated" print runs were accurate, where did all these Vault cards come from?

It's a common practice to print *some* extra cards in the event of need for quality control & replacement issues. Similarly, it's common that some "quality control" boxes/cases are opened and the cards are held back to be used for replacements.

Upper Deck, when a collector sends in a numbered card, if they can replace it they will hand-number the matching original stamped serial number on the replacement. This allows for easy identification of a card as a replacement stock piece for an originally damaged card. This type of thing is pretty crucial for higher-end releases that may be prone to damage due to thicker card stock, etc. If no straight-across replacement exists, they can replace the original card with one of the held back replacement stock cards.

Vault cards existed for reason similar to the above. Even though Superlative was hand-packed and Ultimate Memorabilia slabbed at the source, if cards get damaged somehow they need to have a QC option to replace them. Since Superlative and UM were actually numbered, easy to fix that situation. I still find it dubious that up to 3 copies of each card in the Superlative/UM runs were later issued as Vault cards, but if there's a silver lining it's that they're clearly marked with the stamp.

But what we're seeing with these sets is beyond the scope of necessity. We're talking about ~40% of the print run being released here, above and beyond the original cards. And because of the lack of serial numbering, we don't know if these sets are: stock on top of the originally stated run, stock held back from the original run, or some combination of the two.

[Drewk86a]

But what we're seeing with these sets is beyond the scope of necessity. We're talking about ~40% of the print run being released here, above and beyond the original cards. And because of the lack of serial numbering, we don't know if these sets are: stock on top of the originally stated run, stock held back from the original run, or some combination of the two.

Certainly raises come concerns. How about canvassing collectors and creating a list of who has copies of the cards. Not all of them, just pick a few names which may have circulated to collectors and the secondary market. If the Motown Madness Gold was limited to a print run of 10 cards it shouldn't take long to see if they went over, or by how much. I'll get it started:

Who has a copy of:
Motown Madness GOLD #146 - Jason Woolley
1. Steel City Collectibles (ebay - complete set 1)
2. Steel City Collectibles (ebay - complete set 2)
3. Steel City Collectibles (ebay - complete set 3)
4. Steel City Collectibles (ebay - complete set 4)
5. cardsrus1 (comc - single)
6. ycerman (comc - single)
7. centericecollectibles (ebay- single)
8.
9.
10.
Anyone else got one?

11.
12.
13.
14.
15.

[iidaemmi]

I have often commented on ITG cards because I do not like their looks, to me has been accused of ITG hater for a period of what I have never been.

The largest ITG lovers seem to have decided to leave the ship, I gues because this is such a big robbery, that there are no excuses. I still do not hate ITG, I am sad and disappointed.

Harri

[iidaemmi]

Since that Vault includes at least 6 replacement 05-06 ITG Ultimate Gilmour Emblem card (theyre /10 originally) makes me wonder how long mr. Price has way overproduced these 'replacement' cards.

It should be clear by now, that Superlative and Ultimate vaults has been made only cash purpose. There was nothing 'mr. Price love collectors point at all'. Such a Dear fellow Brian was.

Harri

[LeafGregg]

Leaf did not purchase, nor has any stake in the inventory of past ITG cards hitting the market. We have made a point of numbering cards since taking over ITG. I can tell you that with our products, everything makes it into pack-out. With 2015 In The Game Used, we had less then 20 cards after I finished hand packing....20 total.

[RGM81]

I have often commented on ITG cards because I do not like their looks, to me has been accused of ITG hater for a period of what I have never been.

The largest ITG lovers seem to have decided to leave the ship, I gues because this is such a big robbery, that there are no excuses. I still do not hate ITG, I am sad and disappointed.

Harri

Supporters, more than anybody, have a right to be furious. They've got a lot of skin in the game and are seeing their hard work putting together their collections undermined.

[moosefan87]

Supporters, more than anybody, have a right to be furious. They've got a lot of skin in the game and are seeing their hard work putting together their collections undermined.

Supporters like you said, who have vast ITG collections also have a right to not be ridiculed, insulted or their posts removed when trying to paint possible other theories as to why this happened whether it was here or that other forum. It's obvious that one forum has an obvious axe to grind thus it casts a shadow to the overall subjectivity of their forum.

Not saying that was here but I know of other members that has happened to. I know of at least 3 large ITG collectors who don't give a rip about this because as collectors and don't have any financial motives behind their collections and won't need to sell off items to pay off credit cards, mortgages, etc. So there many sides to this from various collector angles.

Their voices should be heard with equal respect.

[KingKuba]

Blue ink serial # stamping by UD can be a future problem...