Results 41 to 50 of 113
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11-11-2015, 01:09 PM #41
Yes, he is unproven. Everybody overhyped Alexandre Daigle coming out of junior 20 years ago. His NHL career was less than stellar. Nathan Mackinnon? I am very glad I didn't acquire Mackinnon right away. All the hype around this guy seemed to vanish instantly.
Wayne Gretzky (and other "experts") also thought that Eric Lindros, Sidney Crosby (in particular), and Steven Stamkos would be better than Gretzky himself, and now thinks McDavid will outshine them all? GET REAL. Connor was hailed as a savior for Edmonton, to the point that someone called him "Connor McJesus" on national television (it was in Canada on Sportsnet's Hockey Central at Noon). Until he proves himself, he is Connor McNugget. Nothing more.
Let me make this very clear...NOBODY will ever come close to the numbers Wayne Gretzky put up. NOBODY. If Jaromir Jagr did not go to Europe for a few seasons, he may have gotten close but he still would not have passed Gretzky. This "next one" business is garbage and and it needs to stop. NOW. To tie this into card collecting, this is why I refuse to buy or trade for any rookie card of an over-hyped player (unless it is a reasonable deal) until a few years have passed. I wait to see how that player does in his first few years.
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11-11-2015, 01:45 PM #42
Unproven yes. But. Do you watch hockey? The guy has amazing talent. Best player I have seen since Gretzky and he is still only 18. Far from a bust like Daigle. Overhyped sure, but warranted overhyped. Kid can play. I agree though, I won't be paying the redonkulos prices either.
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11-11-2015, 03:40 PM #43
Yes, I watch hockey. Yes, he has talent. However, I refuse to call anyone "better than Crosby" or "better than Gretzky". It is just not going to happen. Nobody will come close to Gretzky's numbers. If Sidney Crosby plays another ten years at the recent rate, he will end up with over 1,700 points...NOT EVEN CLOSE to Gretzky's 2857 points. This is why it is unreasonable to anoint anyone "the next one".
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11-11-2015, 03:50 PM #44
Comparing McDavid to Gretzky is a joke...he's not and never will be as good as ovechkin, malkin,jagr, selanne , Stamkos, Crosby etc.
Jagr is 500 years old and has more goals than McDavid is same games...
You guys really think...he'll be putting up 50-60 goal seasons and winning rockets and art ross all day...
Unreal how delusional people are...
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11-11-2015, 03:54 PM #45
That was my point!
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11-11-2015, 04:10 PM #46
Well first of all I never said he is better than Gretzky. I did say he is the best player I have seen since Gretzky. Big difference. I seen Gretzky play live on many many occasions. Connor has that IT factor. Will he score as many points career wise? Probably not. It is a totally different game now.
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11-11-2015, 04:11 PM #47
He will be far better than anyone not named Gretzky or Mario. To put Malkin, Stamkos and Selanne in the same category is a joke.
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11-11-2015, 04:26 PM #48Hockey Advisor
It's funny that this turned into McDavid vs Gretzky.
Of course nobody is going to score as many points as Gretzky did. Those days are LONG gone, and if the pure numbers are what you want to compare to, then you'll never see a player as good as that again (and yes, I would argue all day that Gretzky is the greatest ever).
McDavid is coming in with more hype than anyone we've seen since Crosby, and if you've watched him play over the last few years - it's pretty obvious why. He's a more gifted offensive talent than anyone we've seen since Crosby (and maybe more than Crosby, though I'm certainly not willing to say that yet).
Crosby has won a grand total of 2 scoring titles. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he'll win another. I will admit that there was a point in time when I thought Crosby had a good chance to win more Cups than Gretzky did (that's Cups... not scoring titles. Almost zero chance we'll see someone with 10 again, and I never thought that would be a thing).
But being the best player in the league has NOTHING to do with putting up 50 or 60 goal seasons, or scoring 120 or 140 points. Crosby won his first scoring title in 2006-07, with 120 points. The runner up was Joe Thornton with 114, and there were 5 others with 100+
The league is now geared far more towards pluggers who can't skate (much less score) than it was in 06-07. The reality is that while 120 points then was impressive, nobody is going to hit that kind of number in 2015. Jamie Benn's 87 points last year probably won't win the scoring title again..... but I betcha the winner does it with under 100.
And so what? I think scoring titles is a good way to measure career success (for the really high end players) but total points? Unless the players played the bulk of their careers in the same era, it's about as useful for comparing the quality of two players as wins by a baseball pitcher.
People are paying bundles of money for McDavid because he projects to be the best player in this league for the next 10 years. If you don't want to buy into the hype - that's anyone's right - but when have hockey card values EVER been about on-ice performance? They're about collectibility, which is all about popularity, and what that player has actually achieved is only one small piece of that.
McDavid's RCs are worth a ton, for the same reason that Ron Francis' signatures are slightly better than that of commons. The popularity machine makes McDavid valuable, while keeping Francis (who was grossly under appreciated) down.
If the injury keeps him out the bulk of the season, the hype machine might die down enough that there's some deals to be had over the summer. Once UD floods the market in a few years with autos & game used, obviously the prices of some cards will drop (no way the YG maintains $300.... it will probably settle in closer to Crosby in the $200-$250 range) but if you really think that this kid is going to just be another guy in the league, and three years these YGs will be selling for half of what they are now..... I think that's what I'd call delusional
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11-11-2015, 05:06 PM #49
Good post ranfordfan. Totally agree.
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11-11-2015, 05:31 PM #50
Strongly disagree with your rationale here. If anything, the league is as geared towards strong skating and scoring as it ever has been. The difference is that nowadays, your fourth line grinders are as good at skating as your top line guys, if not better.
The 90's and early 2000's were a pain to watch, with a whole bunch of Derian Hatcher style players dragging every skill player to the ice.
The 70's and 80's firewagon style of hockey was certainly entertaining, but go back and watch a game and the quality of play is awful. The amount of goals scored while the goalie is standing flat footed are absolutely astonishing. A guy like Guy Lafleur was able to succeed on talent alone, meaning he was free to smoke a few cigarettes in between periods. Now every player is in peak physical condition from the top of the lineup to the bottom, and if one guy is playing poorly he has to worry about the 9 or 10 prospects in the AHL waiting to snatch up his spot.
There's no chance we'll see another stat machine like Gretzky, but the reason is because the players are BETTER now, not worse.
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Originally Posted by japhi 
