Is It Just Me?

[chakhae1]

Before anyone reads this thread I need to warn everyone that it is going to be harsh. I have noticed over the past few years that the hobby has become a collection of greedy and heartless people. Trading cards does not matter anymore and most people are impossible to deal with because they try to rip you off and make a huge profit. I have dealt with all sorts of people recently and thankfully I am a good judge of character and can tell right away if someone is worth dealing with or not and I just go about my business.

The unfortunate part about the hobby is that the greediest people I have found were hockey collectors and that is why I rarely bust any hockey wax. That and most products are downright terrible. I don't want to talk about the people I deal with in person, but it is just sad to see how the hobby has changed to the point that if most collectors are not making a profit, then they won't buy or trade with you. In the hobby I try to make friends but now everyone is more like a business associate and it is just so messed up and terrible. Children are witness to all of this and what kind of example or we setting for them when you need to rob people blind to enjoy the hobby? It is nonsense!

I am able to deal with the greed in people it is just the lengths that people go to get what they want and push every penny out of you. It's only cards and don't these people have livelihoods and jobs? I really don't get it. Then there are those people that take advantage of kind hearted people for every penny and it's just heart breaking really to see how naive some people are.

Here is a little story of a user on another forum that I will not mention but he is the biggest case of robbing someone blind I have ever seen in the hobby. It goes like this. He posted on this forum a few years ago that he left a window open and thus all of his cards got damaged. A tragedy for a card collector for sure, but how does this happen? Don't most windows have a screen that can still protect the cards and even if the window was open how does the water end up inside the house and damage the cards? It just seems too unbelievable but this guy wound up getting 1000s of cards from the nice people from this forum and I don't even think he said thank you. Also what kind of guy accepts cards or anything from people from a dumbass mistake that he made? He truely has no pride and it just shows what is wrong with this guy and the hobby in general.

If that wasn't bad enough this same guy also posted all over the same forum that his father was ill with some disease and he had to quit the hobby and sell all of his cards. Again, people felt sorry for him and he went on and on how he was going to quit and the same thing happened again. He got a bunch of money and cards I believe from the same people and this also happened a few years ago and he is still in the hobby and very active on the forums.

To make matters worse, his spending habits are also very peculiar. He typically only buys blaster boxes from retail outlets and always gets nice hits and this same trend has been happening at his local lcs as well so it just makes me wonder if once again he is lying to get what he wants. How does one get an ICE /99 rookie out of one pack? IT doesn't make any sense at all when people have to bust cases of a product and he gets all these nice cards after opening a pack. I am not jealous, but something is terribly wrong with people like him who take advantage of the goodness of people. I might be totally off with my last anecdote but my first two examples of this guy is a clear example of what is wrong with this hobby and i personally want this kind of behaviour to stop.

[30ranfordfan]

I don't think it's fair to say "that's what's wrong with this hobby"..... more like "this is one of the things that's wrong with this world."


If the person you're talking about is indeed trying to make money off the generosity of others, that's disgusting.


On the overall theme of the post? Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. There are some people out there that have to "win" every deal. I don't think they're the majority though, and I don't let it bother me too much.

[chakhae1]

I don't think it's fair to say "that's what's wrong with this hobby"..... more like "this is one of the things that's wrong with this world."


If the person you're talking about is indeed trying to make money off the generosity of others, that's disgusting.


On the overall theme of the post? Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. There are some people out there that have to "win" every deal. I don't think they're the majority though, and I don't let it bother me too much.

i can't stand that mentality that you have to win every deal. this hobby is supposed to be fun but for whatever reason everyone i know basically treats it as a business. i have a friend who recently quit collecting cards and is more focused on comics b/c it is easier to make money off of comics than it is cards. i don't really understand that logic either. if your life is just about making money then why bother doing anything interesting or having any hobbies? travelling costs a crap load of money but do you think people that travel a lot are looking to make money from it? of course not. they travel for the experience and enjoy themselves. that's why i am in the hobby b/c it is enjoyable and i have fun with it and whatever money i can make from it is a bonus!

i have no idea if that guy is trying to make money off of the generosity of others but he seems really suspicious to me. he also seems angry whenever he makes his show and tell posts and is always swearing, even when he pulls nice cards. immature to say the least especially for a grown adult.

[RGM81]

It's always been this way. From the time I was 10 years old trading my Brett Hull OPC RC at the Okanagan Falls flea market for a full set of 91-92 OPC Premier and the Patrick Roy Pro Set The Mask card, there have always been people who are looking to get the upper hand (and boy I guess time showed her eh?) when it comes to making deals. It's not a function of the hobby, it's a function of any transactional relationship in this world. That how Donald Trump and Charlie Sheen got to where they are, because they're all about #Winning.

We can probably go into the archives 7 years ago and find similar threads lamenting the lack of innocence in the hobby, reflecting on times that never truly existed where I traded you a card you wanted for a card I wanted, and who cares about BV's or SV's or any of that. Let's be honest: Nobody in the 80's ever traded a Wayne Gretzky card for guys who weren't on his level. If you wanted Wayne, you needed to have Mario or Messier or Patrick or Yzerman. Obviously the cards of today have more attributes and assets than simple pieces of cardboard hockey men. We get jerseys, patches, autographed, manufactured patches, even diamonds. The game is more complicated now, but the basic principles of trading remain the same.

Me, I'll deal with just about anybody that makes me offers I perceive to be fair and give something of interest (and yes, value) to both sides. I'll deal away Carey Price for PK Subban, and I'll even deal PK Subban for Josh Gorges despite Josh's values utterly cratering since he was traded to the Sabres. If I get a monster card for a trader, I'm gonna be picky with what I deal it away for--it's gonna be for one of a select number of guys--because I don't get enough opportunities to make huge trades to willy-nilly send out a big card for another big card, and I'm not overly interested in trading something like for something that I don't even want but oh hey maybe I can turn *that* into something I want. It doesn't mean my cards are gold and yours are junk, it's just that the interests don't align.

Now look, that story you shared: that's reprehensible. But you're focusing more on the one slimeball and his depravity rather than the community of people who offered up stuff without hesitation. And I see that type of generosity all the time. There's guys who lose a family member or go through a tough time, and guys will pool cards to sell as fundraisers for that guy & his family. Those are the people who make this hobby awesome. Those are the people I choose to remember and shine the spotlight.

Our perception is not necessarily reality. There are dozens of scammers and thieves out there; there's so many that they even have their own Facebook group where they probably all scam each other, I don't know what they do. You can read about those guys and their antics enough that it changes your viewpoint and you look at the hobby and its participants with skepticism and reticence. Or you can file that and keep it in mind while still enjoying the tremendously and numerous positive aspects of the hobby. It doesn't make you naive to do so. It doesn't make you more or less right than the guy who is getting out because he can't deal with it anymore. It just means that you allow different things to influence you to different degrees.

It's what we make of it. I don't subscribe to a "let's make the hobby great again" mentality because I don't believe that it's not great today, or six months ago, or four years ago. There are peaks and valleys, and some experiences that leave good tastes and bad tastes, but if we didn't care about it, we wouldn't be spending our time on a hobby message board, right?

[chakhae1]

I agree with you that the mentality of society today is to come ahead on top of everything you do and I can't really fault that logic. But as you said this is a hobby and something that should be done for fun and pleasure and I just wish that existed more today in this world we live in. I have heard the amazing stories of kindness all over the internet and I am one personally that if I get a card I don't really want I will give it to a buddy b/c I know he does card shows and I know how tough those can be.

The hobby is great to me b/c I keep it to myself and I bust wax for myself and no one else. I like going to trade night and talking to fellow collectors, possibly meeting new people and watching people bust wax. But as far as actually trading and selling with other collectors that just doesn't exist much for me anymore for all of the reasons I have already mentioned. "Money is the root of all evil" and that is why we have the scammers in the hobby that we do. I know plenty of collectors now that do not collect much of anything now and have become a whole lot greedier than they were when I met them years ago.

They are still decent people deep down, but making some money makes one want to desire more money. This one guy at my LCS is the local bulk buyer and every purchase that he makes he buys the lot at about 25% of what it is worth final sales value wise and this is not an exagerration. Personally, I would not let anyone sell me something at that much of a discount b/c I would feel bad but this guy does it regularly and b/c of it there are only a couple of people that sell to him. I do not understand why people continue to sell to him and I am pretty sure he is the only person getting this kind of deal. Boggles the mind really.

As far as lying in the hobby is concerned to get what you want, I would like to think that really doesn't take place but who knows? I have an innocent mind and just like to collect cards b/c I like the nice patches and like to follow cards of the players I pull. That really is how simple it is for me and rarely do I try to make a profit out of the cards I manage to pull and as a matter of fact most of my pulls are forever in my PC b/c I know the offers will be so low and I get more pleasure in keep a card I pulled than trading for a card of a player I might like or that is worth a certain amount of money.

[TheIronHorse4]

I think the bigger part of this whole thing is exactly what RGM brought up. You focused on one dirt bag who pack searches and uses his own personal "bad luck" to scam free cards and glossed over the numerous good collectors who sent him freebies because they felt bad for him. Unfortunately it's the bottom 5% of the population (and this goes for anything negative or extreme) that make the most noise and sour us the most. The other 95% of people who are doing good things and are good collectors are just an afterthought because they don't create drama.

On the "winning the trade" point, I feel like that has always existed to a certain extent. Because information and value are far more prevalent nowadays with the internet, it's easier to try and squeeze every penny out of a deal because it's far easier to know what an exact value is. Back in the day there was beckett and that was pretty much it. You would be far more likely to make a deal for something you just liked more if the values were kind of close because you didn't really know what it was worth unless you were getting actual offers from a card show/shop or something.

I was just offered a trade, that if I were making it from purely a collection stand point, I would make it in a heartbeat. However, the value I was giving up was significant enough where it wasn't worth it to me. Does that make me a bad trader because I'm trying to get fair value for my card? I would love the card for my collection, but because I don't want to give up on a good chunk of value that makes me a selfish collector? I guess by your definition I'm trying to "win" the trade because it's against the hobby/fun of it, while I'm trying to not throw away money. I sell a lot, but I also buy a lot of boxes because I enjoy opening them. I have a very specific collection, so if it doesn't fit in with the collection, the card goes. Now because I'm trying to get good return on my boxes and top dollar that makes me greedy? I ASSURE you, I've lost far more money being "greedy" then I've taken from the poor collectors I've dealt with.

I typically say this every time one of these threads pop up, but this is not new or not the end of the hobby or whatever flavor of the week needs to be vented about. I've been reading this same thread for over 10 years now and know far more good collectors and buyers in this world than bad. You honestly seem to have a naivety about you that is probably your biggest problem with the hobby. I'd like to think I'm a pretty well respected member of these boards and in the community in general, and it bothers me when people who have this supposed moral high ground act as if collectors and people who enjoy the hobby like me are somehow the problem. If you want to just trade and enjoy your collection and cards I think that's great, and always like hearing of collectors who truly collect that way. However it is totally asinine to think that's the way it absolutely should be across the board.

[chakhae1]

I don't think you fully understand the type of person I am referring to here. The people I am trying to single out are those that do not bust a lot of wax, buy cards on ebay and are not really even active in the hobby and are just in it to rob people blind and it shows in how they act in front of people and on the forums. I used to frequent card shows here in Toronto but it got so bad there that I stopped going. What do I mean? First of all, it was dead and not many people showed up and it was always the same dealers and quite often it wasn't even people that collected and the actual collector left their son, daughter or whoever else to look after their tables.

I also don't think someone that tries to make a profit and some money after busting a lot of wax is greedy either since they are just trying to mend their losses. I do not think I am on some higher moral ground either. I am simply voicing my opinion and believe that I am in the minority of people in the hobby in that I never sell my cards and my main focus in the hobby isn't to sell and make any kind of money.

I think another factor in this whole greed argument comes from the expansion of the hobby into group breaks. Collectors are spending more money than ever before and some lose and some win and this makes us want to make money when we lose. I understand that as well since I'll admit that making money is good. Group breaks are fun for me to watch, but with them starting to be extremely repetitive they are getting boring for me as well.

[chakhae1]

Here is another very common thing that takes place in greedy people in general and something I experience all the time. The person you are dealing with acts like they are totally clueless when it comes to values of cards and acts like they are doing you a favour when selling you cards YOU want. At the end of the day they sold you cards YOU wanted and it doesn't matter what the actual value of the cards is. It's the entire sell at all costs mentality that takes place with used cars salesmen that will lie to make a sale.

A particular incident took place at my LCS once again from the same guy that rips everyone off when he sold base cards and inserts that other collectors were giving away for FREE for a small profit. People like this have no integrity in my eyes and they aren't even collectors anymore and actually this fellow does not need to bust wax anymore since he knows he can not make money from it b/c he is ripping so many people off. It is just sad for me to see since he used to be someone I considered a friend but now he is someone I don't even bother talking to anymore b/c his mind is so corrupted and selfish. SIGH!

[Drewk86a]

The person you are dealing with acts like they are totally clueless when it comes to values of cards and acts like they are doing you a favour when selling you cards YOU want.

Been a pet peeve of mine for years! Especially at card shows when dealers / sellers don't put prices on their cards. I understand that prices fluctuate monthly and it is burdensome to re-price thousands of cards every month. However, when I ask how much they want for a particular card they respond with, "How much will you pay?" it sours me on that dealer. It's the oldest trick in the book. I give them my price, then they use that as a base to haggle me higher. If they want $10 for a card they don't want to miss the opportunity that I might respond $15 to "how much will you pay".

Maybe it's because I'm not a haggler (never liked doing it!). But if your cards aren't priced, I'll keep walking.

[canucksfan007]

Been a pet peeve of mine for years! Especially at card shows when dealers / sellers don't put prices on their cards. I understand that prices fluctuate monthly and it is burdensome to re-price thousands of cards every month. However, when I ask how much they want for a particular card they respond with, "How much will you pay?" it sours me on that dealer. It's the oldest trick in the book. I give them my price, then they use that as a base to haggle me higher. If they want $10 for a card they don't want to miss the opportunity that I might respond $15 to "how much will you pay".

Maybe it's because I'm not a haggler (never liked doing it!). But if your cards aren't priced, I'll keep walking.

Im actually one of those people who dont always price their cards. It is a pain to do it monthly =P

I just always have little signs on my table saying:

"Always Trading"

and either

"Accepting Offers"

or

"Ask for prices"

Seems to do the trick when you let the buyer know you're willing to wheel n deal, even though prices arnt listed