Religion Questions??

[walt55054life]

Anyone who keeps their beliefs to themself, I have no problem with. But we all know that most Christians don't do that.

WHOA buddy! How are people suspose to keep their beliefs to themselves when you clearly don't--very hypocritical. I mean I can understand if people are trying to force their belief onto you but to say that chritians should keep their beliefs to themsleves is a little over the top. What if Martin Luther didn't voice his opinions and beliefs about the church, what is Martin Luther King didn't voice his opinions about racism(are you saying that he should've keep his beliefs to himself so we could still be living with such racial genocide?).

Your right most Christians don't do that and neither does any other religion for that matter(including yourself). Seems to me though your highly irrate about what I believe but find it ok to mock my beliefs as I do not do that to you. It's like saying that Martin Luther King is full of crap and we should persecute blacks still. Also most people w/ religion(or spirituality) in general live healthy, better lives that contribute to society.

[gatorboymike]

gatorboymike, I was extremely impressed with the level of civility in your first post...you just had to go ruin that didn't you? As with anything else in the Politics & Religion forum, if you're going to make outrageous claims, show us some proof to back it up. And everyone else in here has remained pretty civil and respectful of others' opinions and beliefs, please try to do the same.

I was willing to be civil until you made it personal in my other post.

The proof is in the Bible...I can't quote you any specific verses because I've never read the thing cover to cover. But let's just take some examples everyone's heard of: god torturing Job just to win a bet with Satan, god destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, god killing the entire world in the great flood, god instructing his followers to rove the countryside murdering every infidel they see, god bringing plagues upon the Romans, god forcing the Hebrews to suffer in the desert for 40 years, and pretty much everything else god does in the book. It seems like god is enraged out of its mind all the time, and the only way it can amuse itself is by killing people left and right. But no matter how many people it kills, it can't slake its bloodthirst. And you'd have me believe that such an entity has my best interest at heart, and I should just put blind faith and trust in it? Do you also have an invisible car to sell me?

WHOA buddy! How are people suspose to keep their beliefs to themselves when you clearly don't--very hypocritical. I mean I can understand if people are trying to force their belief onto you but to say that chritians should keep their beliefs to themsleves is a little over the top. What if Martin Luther didn't voice his opinions and beliefs about the church, what is Martin Luther King didn't voice his opinions about racism(are you saying that he should've keep his beliefs to himself so we could still be living with such racial genocide?).

Your right most Christians don't do that and neither does any other religion for that matter(including yourself). Seems to me though your highly irrate about what I believe but find it ok to mock my beliefs as I do not do that to you. It's like saying that Martin Luther King is full of crap and we should persecute blacks still. Also most people w/ religion(or spirituality) in general live healthy, better lives that contribute to society.

I wasn't the one who started the war. Christians started it. They've been forcing their views on me (and the entire world) from day one. I just consider myself lucky that I don't live in a time where Christians could get away with trying to convert me at swordpoint. I took the constant harassment, threats, intimidation and physical violence in stride and played Moral Orel for 18 years. Then I decided I'd had enough, and that anyone who shoved me would get shoved right back. You know, eye for an eye. That's what Christians believe in, isn't it?

And trying to equate this to condoning racism is just logically fallacious. I say I don't want to be preached to by Christians and you interpret that as "he thinks we should persecute black people"? Don't know where you got that from, friend. Have say that's a negative.

[boomer123]

this forum was supposed to be about biblical questions not any ones belief,we all have the right to chose who and or what we want to believe in,and that should be ok with everyone else,as far as condeming someone else`s belief I am not here to do that and I don`t think the one who started this thread is either,you have the right to believe what you want just like everyone else,and we should all try to remember that.thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents

[WilyWestbrook0]

The older definition of "jealousy" is earnest concern, which is not a sin, and has nothing to do with differing standards applied to human and God jealousy. Only in the last few centuries has the primary use of the word changed to what it means now, much the same way that "nice" used to mean miserly, but no longer is that the primary understanding of the word. Blame humans and their tendency to change language meaning for that, not what the writer of the Biblical verse wrote.

As for gatorboymike's other concerns, it looks primarily like the Old Testament is what bothers you, especially the many laws condemning people to death, etc. Actually, this is entirely understandable, and it's one of the reasons I experience difficulty in faith daily (I think many Christians are dishonest with how strong their faith is; either that or I struggle greatly with doubt more than I should). It's much easier to focus on what Jesus said, such as "love your enemies," and "turn the other cheek" instead of "an eye for an eye" (the latter of which itself is an Old Testament law). The Jesus principles are what draw most people into Christianity, and are also responsible for the view of a loving and forgiving God. It's reconciling the different testaments that is perhaps the most difficult aspect of Biblical faith. You can't say that the Westboro people are adhering more to the Bible more than others have, only that they are adhering more to literal Old Testament interpretation; they certainly aren't adhering to Jesus' primary principles.

[walt55054life]

Yes you can...it's not about actions. Doing good deeds will not get you into Heaven and committing sin will not keep you out of Heaven. Everyone sins...all the time. It's being saved that punches your ticket.

Now that to me is where christians mis read the Bible and Jesus' teachings....Matthew 7:21-23....I understand what your saying, but it's a little vague I would say that yes people sin, but you can't just knowingly continue to make sinful act and expect that if you repent you will be saved everytime. I know you were only replying to the comment about using the Lord's name in vain, and I constantly see myself slipping up, but I don't consciously say it..if that makes any sense

[ensbergcollector]

man!! take a few hours for a meeting and we are on page 5. I will try and answer everyone in order. Please let me know if I miss you. Might take me a little while. lol

[shortking98]

I was willing to be civil until you made it personal in my other post.

The proof is in the Bible...I can't quote you any specific verses because I've never read the thing cover to cover. But let's just take some examples everyone's heard of: god torturing Job just to win a bet with Satan, god destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, god killing the entire world in the great flood, god instructing his followers to rove the countryside murdering every infidel they see, god bringing plagues upon the Romans, god forcing the Hebrews to suffer in the desert for 40 years, and pretty much everything else god does in the book. It seems like god is enraged out of its mind all the time, and the only way it can amuse itself is by killing people left and right. But no matter how many people it kills, it can't slake its bloodthirst. And you'd have me believe that such an entity has my best interest at heart, and I should just put blind faith and trust in it? Do you also have an invisible car to sell me?

At first I thought you legitimately wanted answers to your questions but I know see you were only looking to start fights...If you change your mind and actually would like responses to anything feel free to check out what I posted in response to your first question or to PM me (or whoever) or post it respectfully. Thanks

[gladdyontherise]

i can't agree with the bible at all, why you ask....well, i'm jewish
so i will never read it or care to do so, i've already had my bar mitzvah and read from the torah (same type of thing as the bible)

but here's my question, if the bible is so right and everything, why did he create people who have killed millions and millions of jew's since the existence of humans. what did jew's do wrong? because they wanted there own country? i'm lost.....

and also, not saying all, or trying to start fuss, but of any religion that i have seen or heard of, christians just hate jew's. not trying to start problems, i'm stating this is the case i've read since the begining of time in textbooks are from real world expierence

also there is so much torture to jew's. i get harrassed about being jewish alot, and for no other reason than its a minority religion and christians think they are better (or most do)

[ensbergcollector]

This may be kind of an odd question, but why is it that all my Christian friends keep trying to convert me even though I tell them not to? They tell me they pray for me (in the sense they want me to be a Christian) and I tell them to please not to and they continue to anyway. I mean, I understand the logic that God wants you to "save people" or "help them find the way" or whatever, but is there a line with respecting others wishes? Sure, in my eyes at least, praying won't harm me or do anything to change my views at this point in my life, but I still feel like they are intruding on me. These people are just other college kids whom were my first friends when I moved out to Oregon who invited me to Bible study and I wasn't busy and I brought a different perspective on things so I decided to go. Funny thing now, since I don't go to Bible study anymore, they haven't contacted me to hang out.

Another interesting note, I graduated from a Christian (Nazarene) high school and they did the same thing to me because they knew when I transfered there my senior year that I wasn't Christian.

Talk about a way to turn someone off to religion.

I think a lot of the reasons that happens is that people don't understand the way God works. They forget that if someone does something because you harrassed them enough or bugged them enough then it isn't sincere. God desires for you to believe in him and follow him but that must come in your own time. I think a reminder now and then that they are there for you is ok, but anything more than that will just turn you off to God/religion.

[walt55054life]

I was willing to be civil until you made it personal in my other post.

The proof is in the Bible...I can't quote you any specific verses because I've never read the thing cover to cover. But let's just take some examples everyone's heard of: god torturing Job just to win a bet with Satan, god destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, god killing the entire world in the great flood, god instructing his followers to rove the countryside murdering every infidel they see, god bringing plagues upon the Romans, god forcing the Hebrews to suffer in the desert for 40 years, and pretty much everything else god does in the book. It seems like god is enraged out of its mind all the time, and the only way it can amuse itself is by killing people left and right. But no matter how many people it kills, it can't slake its bloodthirst. And you'd have me believe that such an entity has my best interest at heart, and I should just put blind faith and trust in it? Do you also have an invisible car to sell me?

Maybe Orlando should've put a blind faith in shaq, mcgrady, francis, and wallace????