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Thread: Patch forger... caught!
06-04-2009, 01:05 PM #31
06-04-2009, 01:19 PM #32
Anyways, my question wasn't really taking into account to plausibility of going through with such an endeavour, but moreso to question collectors as to how they would value such a card, would they deem it as "illegitimate" merely on the basis that Joe A from UD didn't put the patch in himself?
06-04-2009, 01:25 PM #33
06-04-2009, 01:34 PM #34
But say, on the other hand, that people like this guy change their approach to the following:
1. Buy gameworn jerseys to use and find a way to prove their authenticity.
2. Specify that they have tampered with the cards, don't lie about it.
If these two qualifications were met would you guys still undervalue the cards, or see them as "illegitimate", even though this brings us back to the argument of "Joe A with a UD paycheque manufacturer vs. Joe B on the street manufacturer, both cards use gameworn jerseys, so technically no difference other than different Joes"
06-04-2009, 01:35 PM #35
"Patch forger"... in the hobby we call that "altered cards". The specificity here is about the guy that focus on replacing patches on cards, like other people is about false autographs. It is totally illegal when the buyer isn't aware the card was altered, similar to customs cards made by collectors without licenses: legal when it is not for sale, illegal for resale without information provided to the buyer. This is why it is illegal here. With so many collectors in the Toronto area, even a reputable dealer (marcello_capoferri on auction #370193653533) reselling one of the fake patch card, the Toronto Expo as a major card show is his area, it is surprising that nobody catched this guy trying to trade/sell a fake patch card "live".
By the way, you are always welcome to post here, it is not like on HI where the high-end collectors not friends of Steve Angel are not allowed on this private forum. We can share the same floor at the Toronto Expo, but not the same virtual community, strange? ;)
06-04-2009, 01:37 PM #36
Funny thing that may be overlooked here is that the Ebay seller who actually sold the doctored Bergeron patch (marcello capoferri) has auctioned off a ton of the same cards seller kao seneca has including an Ovechkin LL with the "washington" inscription on the center of the capitol building.Collecting
Martin Brodeur-All Cards, Especially High End
06-04-2009, 01:54 PM #37
06-04-2009, 02:14 PM #38
Wow!! That is some sick stuff here. It's stuff like this that makes me really happy that I don't collect high end cards. I'd be sick to me stomach if i had spent a few hundred bucks picking up one of this guys sales, only to find out it's a fake. ...
I wonder, is this like being the last guy with counterfeit money. Where the last guy holding it is the one who takes the hit? Or would anyone of these purchasers be able to get their money back some how?
I would really like to be kept apprised of this situation, specifically what Ebay's and the RCMP's responses will be.
Thanks Bruce, you and the guys over at HI have seem to have done some really good work catching this guy, I just hope you have enough evidence to nail this dirt bag.
06-04-2009, 02:26 PM #39
Why would something like this never happen? I don't understand.
Additionally, even if this was purely a hypothetical theory (which it isn't), why do you suggest that people's opinions regarding the issue don't matter? It's like responding to the question of "What would you do if you could time travel?" with "Nope, not answering, it'll never happen".
06-04-2009, 02:30 PM #40