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08-04-2009, 11:36 AM #1
Paypal Caveats - How to Limit Fees When Sending and Receiving Money
I just thought that I'd post this here in case anyone else was surprised by the Paypal fee structure as I was. I've highlighted text in red which I felt was was something new to me, or introduced in the past few months that may not be widely known just yet.
My motivation for this article is to help everyone in SCF maximize their dollars in this economy. While I try not to push that opinion too hard though, the slant of this article is to encourage the use Paypal without having to pay fees. I now that not everyone will agree with this, but, in my personal opinion, I like to think of SCF as a good group of people and I don't expect anyone who is confirmed to be a scammer. I know that some people out there do try to steal money, but if they know what they are doing, they likely know the steps to keep any money they've received via Paypal, regardless of 'Buyer Protection' or 'Paypal Disputes'. I have to wonder why the average buyer and seller should pay fees in the first place if you're not protected in full when you really need it. If I'm going to lose my money to a bad trader no matter what, I'd rather see that all the good traders get full payments than pay fees for no reason.
Updated: November 3, 2009
Introduction:
Paypal is a popular method for sending money in exchange for sports memorabilia online. In addition to allowing transactions all over the globe, Paypal allows users to conveniently link their e-mail to local bank cards, credit cards, bank accounts and store funds in a relatively secure online account. Currently, Paypal tends to focus their attention to eBay transactions. However, collectors can use Paypal for non-eBay transactions and transfer money between individuals securely, such as in trades here at SCF.
Paypal fees:
Traditionally, the burden of fee payments rested heavily on the seller. Recent changes now allow for certain payments to have the fee paid by the buyer. The most likely fees consist of transaction fees for the use of a credit or bank card, money transfer fees and cross-border fees. Below is a list that details the most common fees and .
US RESIDENTS:
Receiving Money from within the US:
- Free - If paid from bank transfer or Paypal balance
- 2.9% + $0.30 - If paid by bank or credit card
- 2.9% + $0.30 - For any commercial transaction - regardless of funding source
Receiving Money from outside of the US:
- +0% - in addition to any fees mentioned above
Currency Exchange:
- 2.5% - added onto the current exchange rate
CAN RESIDENTS:
Receiving Money from within CAN:
- Free - If paid from bank transfer or Paypal balance
- 2.9% + $0.30 - If paid by bank or credit card
- 2.9% + $0.30 - For any commercial transaction - regardless of funding source
Receiving Money from outside of CAN:
- +1% - in addition to any fees mentioned above
Currency Exchange:
- 2.5% - added onto the current exchange rate
Pay Less Fees - Buyer!From the buyer's prospective, money is always sent free. There are some hidden fees for the buyer, but they will be discussed later. As the buyer though, you have the power to choose whether or not your seller will pay fees. If you are known to send payments without fees, sellers are more likely to want to deal with you as they end up with more money in their pockets, or they may sell to you for less. Alternatively, if your payment is subjected to fees, what are the benefits to you?
Hidden fees
Most online transactions are conducted in USD. If your local currency is not USD, Paypal charges a 2.5% premium on the current exchange rate any time money is converted to or from your local currency. To avoid this fee, try to negotiate with the seller to accept payment with your local currency whenever possible. Most sellers will reject this and insist on payment in USD, but its worth a try sometimes, for example, if you both live in the same country. As a work around, I suggest becoming a seller first. By selling and building up your own Paypal balance you can avoid ever having to pay this premium. For more details about receiving funds, check out the second half of this document which is for the seller.
Sending Payments
The buyer has the power to choose whether or not the seller will pay fees. Before we talk about how we can send money without being subjected to fees, its important to know what those fees buy.
When non-eBay Paypal payments are subjected to fees, the buyer is protected by the "PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy". This is similar to the eBay dispute process in every way except for two important points:
1. A "significantly not as described" claim cannot be escalated
2. If an escalated claim is found in your favour, your refund is limited to whatever the seller has left in their account.
If you choose to pay with a bank or credit card, then the payment will be subjected to fees and the rest of these steps won't help. As a courtesy, I recommend that you inform the seller how you are intending to pay so they are aware of the fee before they receive payment.
To send a payment that is subjected to the least amount of fees is to make sure that you send payment from either a Paypal balance or via bank transfers in the currency you wish to send money.
When you log into Paypal and choose to send money, you should see a page like this:
Notice the circled tabs. The default when sending money is as a "Purchase". If you are the buyer, you may be inclined to leave this tab the way it is. Sending money as a purchase will automatically result in a minimum fee for the seller of 2.9% + $0.30. Alternatively, you can click on the "Personal" tab. You will then see a screen like this:
Under the option "This money is being sent as a:", feel free to choose any method you want. I usually choose "Other" and indicate the details in the description (trade with, thread of trade, etc.). Sending money as a personal transaction allows for the seller to receive the funds with as few fees as possible. This method also allows for you to see what fees the seller will be subjected to, and, if you're feeling particularly generous, you can ever opt to pay them on the seller's behalf.
Pay Less Fees - Seller!Its often best to be pro-active if you want to limit the amount of fees that you pay. The Paypal user agreement states that you cannot ask the buyer to send money as a personal transaction, but you can still refer them to a helpful article if you think it will make a difference.
Before any money changes hands, you can ask the buyer where the funds are coming from. If they are from a credit card, you know that there will be a fee of 2.9% + $0.30. If your buyer is from a different country, then, 1% will be added on top of that (i.e.: 3.9% + $0.30). With the new Paypal tabs, as long as you aren't selling through eBay (where Paypal fees are mandatory), the buyer has the option to pay the fees on their end. Negotiate with them about who should pay the fees.
If the funds are coming from a Paypal Balance or bank transfer, feel free to refer them to this article. If the buyer is outside of your country you will always be subjected to a +1% fee, but sometimes a good manner and customer service can get that fee paid for you by the buyer without even asking. If you are very much concerned about this fees, as with all transactions, everything is negotiable as to whether you or the buyer should pay for it.
When you've already received money, its not too late to do something. You can refund any payments received, along with any fees taken by Paypal and return it to the buyer. Feel free to refer them to this thread in case they want to send money in an alternate fashion. Remember though that, you are trading cash in hand, for a chance at less fees. Sometimes, the buyer may be too confused or upset that their money was refunded and may opt to cancel the deal rather than have you save 50 cents on a transaction, especially if you come off as rude.
I'm still exploring the benefits of fees for the seller, but the Paypal user agreement for non-eBay seller protection isn't as clear as for buyers. I'll update this later when I have more.
Cheers,
reoddaiLast edited by reoddai; 11-03-2009 at 09:33 PM.
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08-16-2009, 11:17 AM #2
Paypal Caveats - How to Limit Fees When Sending and Receiving Money
By Matthew Tomkins aka reoddai
Introduction:
Paypal is the defacto method for sending money in exchange for sports memorabilia online. Not only is Paypal a virtually global company allowing transactions from every continent but also allows the user to link their e-mail to local bankcards, credit cards, bank accounts and allows one to store funds in a relatively secure online account. The focus of Paypal tends to be eBay where Paypal has allowed the regular user to be both a buyer and a seller through the internet. As a side-product Paypal allows for non-eBay transactions and can also be used as a means to transfer money between individuals, such as in trades at Sports Card Forum.
Paypal fees:
As a company, Paypal wants to increase its revenue as much as possible without driving away customers and does so by charging fees for its services. The burden of fee payment rests heavily on the seller in Paypal's user structure. The most popular fees consist of transaction fees for the use of a credit or bankcard, money transfer fees and cross-border fees. The list below should outline the majority of the fees involved and what the average user should be expected to pay.
US RESIDENTS:
Receiving Money from within the US:
* Free - If paid from bank transfer or Paypal balance
* 2.9% + $0.30 - If paid by bank or credit card
* 2.9% + $0.30 - For any commercial transaction - regardless of funding source
Receiving Money from outside of the US:
* +1% - in addition to any fees mentioned above
Currency Exchange:
* 2.5% - added onto the current exchange rate
CAN RESIDENTS:
Receiving Money from within CAN:
* Free - If paid from bank transfer or Paypal balance
* 2.9% + $0.30 - If paid by bank or credit card
* 2.9% + $0.30 - For any commercial transaction - regardless of funding source
Receiving Money from outside of CAN:
* +1% - in addition to any fees mentioned above
Currency Exchange:
* 2.5% - added onto the current exchange rate
Pay Fewer Fees - Buyer!
Generally money can always be sent free from the buyer's perspective. However, as a sports memorabilia collector, you are likely to play the role of both buyer and seller eventually. It's good to learn how to send money so that the recipient is subjected to as few fees as possible. At the very least you will be known as a good customer and good sellers always remember their best customers.
Most online transactions today are conducted in USD. However, it is occasionally desirable to pay in other currencies (EUR, CAN, etc.). If you as being asked to pay in a specific currency, which is not your local currency, you are stuck having to pay the 2.5% premium on exchange. Try to negotiate with the seller by being allowed to pay in your local currency whenever possible. However, be aware that almost every seller will reject this and insist on payment in USD. At the moment there aren't any easy ways to circumvent this fee. As a work around I suggest becoming a seller first. By selling and building up your own Paypal balance you can effectively manage your own budget and have funds on hand to pay out later. For more details about receiving funds check out the second half of this document that is for the seller.
If you choose to pay with a bank or credit card, the rest of these steps won't help. Be sure to inform the seller how you are intending to pay as they will be subjected to a flat fee.
The best way to reduce fees is to make sure that you send payment from either Paypal balances or via bank transfers in the currency you wish to send money.
As with most SCF transactions we have a seller and a buyer. The buyer can do a lot to reduce the fees. When you log into Paypal and choose to send money you should see a page like this:
Notice the circled tabs. The default when sending money is as a "Purchase". If you are the buyer, you may be inclined to leave this tab the way it is.
Do not send money as a purchase if you have the choice! This will automatically result in a fee for the seller of 2.9% + $0.30. Instead, opt to click on the "Personal" tab. You will instead see a screen like this:
Feel free to choose any method you want. I usually choose "Other" and indicate the details in the description (trade with, thread of trade, etc.). Sending money in this fashion will be subjected to the +1% if sending outside of your country.
Pay Fewer Fees - Seller!
If you aren't a business, and are just selling personal goods, why should you be paying business related fees? It’s often best to be pro-active if you want to limit the amount of fees that you pay.
First, before any money changes hands, ask the buyer where the funds are coming from. If they are from a credit card you know that there will be a fee of 2.9% + $0.30. Are they outside from the country? Add 1% on top of that (i.e.: 3.9% + $0.30). With the new Paypal tabs, as long as you aren't selling through eBay (where Paypal fees are mandatory), the buyer has the option to pay the fees on their end. Negotiate with them about who should pay the fees.
If the funds are coming from a Paypal Balance or bank transfer, then be sure to ask them to choose the "Personal" tab when sending funds, as indicated above. You will always be subjected to the +1% fee if the payment is coming from out of the country but sometimes a good manner and customer service can get that fee paid for you from the buyer without even asking. If you are very much concerned about these fees, again, it is negotiable on whether you or the buyer should pay for it.
When you've already received money it’s not too late to do something. You can refund any payments received, along with any fees taken by Paypal, and return it to the buyer. Feel free to refer them to this thread and ask them to send money the right way. Remember, you are trading cash in hand for a chance at fewer fees. Sometimes, the buyer may be too confused or upset that their money was refunded and may opt to cancel the deal rather than have you save 50 cents on a transaction, especially if you come off as rude.
Hope this helps!
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08-17-2009, 10:48 PM #3
999 Word count from 2007 Word (Which counts Tags and and links as one word I think)
Introduction:
Paypal is a popular method for sending money in exchange for sports memorabilia online. In addition to allowing transactions all over the globe, Paypal allows users to conveniently link their e-mail to local bank cards, credit cards, bank accounts and store funds in a relatively secure online account. Currently, Paypal tends to focus their attention to eBay transactions. However, collectors can use Paypal for non-eBay transactions and transfer money between individuals securely, such as in trades here at SCF.
Paypal fees:
Traditionally, the burden of fee payments rested heavily on the seller. Recent changes now allow for certain payments to have the fee paid by the buyer. The most likely fees consist of transaction fees for the use of a credit or bank card, money transfer fees and cross-border fees. Below is a list that details the most common fees and .
NORTH AMERICAN RESIDENTS:
Receiving Money from within your country:
- Free - If paid from bank transfer or Paypal balance
- 2.9% + $0.30 - If paid by bank or credit card
- 2.9% + $0.30 - For any commercial transaction - regardless of funding source
Receiving Money from outside of your country:
- +1% - in addition to any fees mentioned above
Currency Exchange:
- 2.5% - added onto the current exchange rate
Pay Less Fees - Buyer!From the buyer's prospective, money is always sent free. As the buyer though, you have the power to choose whether or not your seller will pay fees. If you are known to send payments without fees, sellers are more likely to want to deal with you as they end up with more money in their pockets, or they may sell to you for less.
Hidden fees
Most online transactions are conducted in USD. If your local currency is not USD, Paypal charges a 2.5% premium on the current exchange rate any time money is converted to or from your local currency. Try to negotiate with the seller to accept payment with your local currency whenever possible. Most sellers will reject this and insist on payment in USD, but its worth a try especially if you both live in the same country. As a work around, I suggest becoming a seller first. By selling and building up your own Paypal balance you can avoid ever having to pay this premium.
Sending Payments
The buyer has the power to choose whether or not the seller will pay fees. Before we talk about how we can send money without being subjected to fees, its important to know what those fees buy.
When non-eBay Paypal payments are subjected to fees, the buyer is protected by the "PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy". This is similar to the eBay dispute process in every way except for two important points:
1. "Significantly not as described" claims cannot be escalated
2. If an escalated claim is found in your favour, your refund is limited to whatever the seller has left in their account.
If you choose to pay with a bank or credit card, then the payment will be subjected to fees and the rest of these steps won't help. As a courtesy, I recommend that you inform the seller how you are intending to pay so they are aware of the fee before they receive payment.
To send a payment that is subjected to the least amount of fees , send payments using a Paypal balance or via bank transfers in the currency you wish to send money.
When you log into Paypal and choose to send money, you should see a page like this:
The default when sending money is as a "Purchase". If you are the buyer, you may be inclined to leave this tab the way it is. Sending money as a purchase will automatically result in a fee for the seller of 2.9% + $0.30. Alternatively, you can click on the "Personal" tab.
I usually choose "Other" and indicate the details in the description (trade with, thread of trade, etc.). Sending money as a personal transaction allows for the seller to receive the funds with as few fees as possible. This method also allows for you to see what fees the seller will be subjected to, and, if you're feeling particularly generous, you can even opt to pay them on the seller's behalf.
Pay Less Fees - Seller!Its often best to be pro-active if you want to limit the amount of fees that you pay. The Paypal user agreement states that you cannot ask the buyer to send money as a personal transaction, but you can still refer them to a helpful article if you think it will make a difference.
Before any money changes hands, you can ask the buyer where the funds are coming from. If they are from a credit card, you know that there will be a fee of 2.9% + $0.30. If your buyer is from a different country, then, 1% will be added on top of that (i.e.: 3.9% + $0.30). With the new Paypal tabs, as long as you aren't selling through eBay (where Paypal fees are mandatory), the buyer has the option to pay the fees on their end. Negotiate with them about who should pay the fees. If the buyer is outside of your country you will always be subjected to a +1% fee, but sometimes a good manner and customer service can get that fee paid for you by the buyer without even asking.
When you've already received money, its not too late to do something. You can refund any payments received, along with any fees taken by Paypal and return it to the buyer. Remember that, you are trading cash in hand, for a chance at less fees. Sometimes, the buyer may be too confused or upset that their money was refunded and may opt to cancel the deal rather than have you save 50 cents on a transaction, especially if you come off as rude.
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08-28-2009, 02:24 AM #4
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