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View Full Version : Frauds? You decide.



teacheric
01-23-2006, 02:54 AM
These guys are responsible for sending out Fleer Redemptions.

They are now NARU on eBay.

Why? I don't know. But one can only assume that it may be due to the selling of Fleer redemptions.

Case #1: WNBA Fleer redemption only RC (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2934&item=8747004645)

There are many more of these that were sold...

Case #2: Swoopes UNSIGNED Fleer Card with Fleer COA (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2934&item=8734302336)

Who could ever allow these cards to be sold?!? It has a COA on the back (from Fleer) but it is UNSIGNED!?! A forger could sign this and an unscrupulous seller can sell it as a legitimate auto (due to the COA)!!!

Before their status changed, they had many of these for sale!

Case #3: BGS Raw Grading of UnStamped Parallels to pass off as "legitimate" releases (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44881&item=8743066151)

Getting graded by BGS Raw Review seemed to circumvent the labeling of the regular BGS Graded issued labels that mentioned "Missing serial numbers." (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55972&item=8747923068#ebayphotohosting)

As a player collector, I too would be enticed by purchasing some of their auctions.

I just want to clear the air that I am not by any means disparaging the sellers, but really questioning the process of the redemptions and the damage that this behavior can cause to the hobby.

I am really calling upon the hobby leaders to do something about this, especially Upper Deck (since they have the rights to the Fleer trademark) and Beckett (since they're knowingly grading these cards).


I'm just bringing this to the attention of BMBers who may see these cards and be drawn into the false legitimacy of these unreleased cards.

Beckett and Upper Deck really need to file a "cease and desist" order to the grading and distribution of these cards! They can ruin the hobby!

CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

And spread the word!

LakersMC
01-23-2006, 10:16 PM
This reminds me of another thread I started about another user selling Fleer bankruptcy stuff.
http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=162629&page=3&pp=10

This is total BS. As you mentioned, I'm sure some people are going to add fake autographs, jerseys, etc to these cards & re-sell them to naive collectors.

teacheric
01-24-2006, 12:21 AM
You know what, Mod? I was on another sportscards messageboard and someone said that they were at the Fleer auction and witnessed ARA Collectibles (the seller in question) buy large lots of this stuff.

Can't Upper Deck, the owner of Fleer's intellectual property rights, prohibit these guys from selling these cards because of possible "misrepresentation"?

If I had a high-end card that had an accompanying COA without a sig, and I was unscrupulous, I would be surprised if I batted an eyelash at the thought of forging that sig since I have a "COA" to support my claim that it was real.

Junk...now I have to be MORE vigilant.

Or more selective.

Exacerbating this mess is the HBO special on third-party authenticators.

Star_Cards
02-03-2006, 04:57 PM
well if fleer sold them to them, they have every right to sell them. personally a swwopes collector would probably rather have the card without the Auto. there are way less of those floating around...probably.

I do see where it's a conern though. that stuff should have been destroyed.

Greenbeans
02-03-2006, 05:34 PM
let me clear some of this up....part of this lot was what ARA collectibles bought out most likely with the fleer redmeption inventory. i was wondering how they were going to make their money back, and apparently here is the answer - they have sent in the rookies to be graded that were in fleers inventory in the likely event of a dmamged card coming back etc.

keep an eye on this buyer - see what game used and autos he starts to sell

also upper deck has no rights to the stuff under the fleer name before the acquisition date, only the products they produce now.

Greenbeans
02-03-2006, 05:35 PM
on another note its nice to see them selling off thw restling and wild west stuff so we dont get those in our redemptions

Greenbeans
02-03-2006, 05:54 PM
these cards were most likely to be used, as i said earlier, for damaged cards in packs and whatnot. while there is the possibility of people getting these cards and forging autographs, they would also have to make the serial numbers exact and whatnot. i actually think, by getting them graded, this will help by many people leaving them in their respective holders.

teacheric
02-04-2006, 01:30 PM
these cards were most likely to be used, as i said earlier, for damaged cards in packs and whatnot. while there is the possibility of people getting these cards and forging autographs, they would also have to make the serial numbers exact and whatnot. i actually think, by getting them graded, this will help by many people leaving them in their respective holders.


I wish I could say the same about the unsigned cards with their COAs.

With the recent HBO investigation that aired, there is NO WAY to track these cards. They will unfortunately exchange hands so many times that many won't realize that it's a fake although there's a real COA on the back.

I understand the prerogative of the seller to do whatever they want with these cards, but Fleer (or somebody) should have not let these filter out into the hobby WITHOUT their autos on it.

It just makes our love of the hobby THAT much harder.

payneo59
02-04-2006, 02:03 PM
he is selling a big ben autograph

Greenbeans
02-04-2006, 07:07 PM
just posted this ebay question to the seller, will also be informing the people on the bankrupcty site. we'll see what the response is.

yes I have a question. I have been watching your auctions carefully as you were the winning bid in the redemption program. i was wondering why you are selling football autographs already? has the complete redemption process occured? have you fufilled your end of that agreement already and this was what was leftover? please let me know?

Greenbeans
02-04-2006, 07:11 PM
i also just fired off an email to the lawyer in regards to the redemption process. we'll see what answers i get - probably nothing

teacheric
02-06-2006, 03:44 AM
Please post the reply. I am curious as to what is to be said. My feeling is that since the company has agreed to distribute the cards and now have them in their possession, it's all up to the legalese regarding what they can do BEFORE fulfilling the redemptions.

Greenbeans
02-06-2006, 08:34 PM
here is the response from the attorney for the bankruptcy

Dear Michael,

As we monitor Ara Collectibles' Ebay account we knew about this card.
This card was not part of the redemption card program and appears to
have come from a lot that was auctioned off in the September 9, 2005
auction.

As it was not part of the redemption card program we had no reason to
stop the auction.

If you have additional questions please let me know.

Very truly yours,
-Mat Laskowski

teacheric
02-07-2006, 02:34 AM
Thanks for that post!

It's good to know that someone is monitoring them!!! =)