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tpeichel
06-30-2013, 10:42 AM
Who gets helped the most?

1) Democratic Party
2) Corporations

Who gets hurt the most?

1) Taxpayers
2) Low skilled/low income workers

The bigger problem is that mass immigration leads to self segregation rather than integration. You can already see it in the black and latino communities that have completely separate cultures. While there is no problem embracing your heritage, nations without a common and shared interest are doomed to conflict and eventual violence. In my lifetime, the country has never seemed more divided than right now and it's not just along political lines. I believe this Immigration Bill will make the current problems much worse and accelerate the looming conflict. I can't think of any examples where importing the third world on a mass scale to western civilizations has turned out positively. Can anyone else?

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 11:03 AM
Who gets helped the most?

1) Democratic Party
2) Corporations

Who gets hurt the most?

1) Taxpayers
2) Low skilled/low income workers

The bigger problem is that mass immigration leads to self segregation rather than integration. You can already see it in the black and latino communities that have completely separate cultures. While there is no problem embracing your heritage, nations without a common and shared interest are doomed to conflict and eventual violence. In my lifetime, the country has never seemed more divided than right now and it's not just along political lines. I believe this Immigration Bill will make the current problems much worse and accelerate the looming conflict. I can't think of any examples where importing the third world on a mass scale to western civilizations has turned out positively. Can anyone else?

1: You don't think it helps immigrants?
2: You just described Canada and said it's doomed to violence.
3: It's entirely along party lines, or you wouldn't have mentioned a party.

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 11:21 AM
I am not familiar with Canadian demographics, but my suspicion is that they do not have the concentrations in specific populations like in the U.S. where black/African-Americans are approximately 12% of the population and Hispanic/Latino is approximately 16%. The proposed Immigration Bill will only increase these percentages.

Of course it helps immigrants in the short-term, but that is of little consequence to me if it leads to the disintegration of the United States.

There is a huge political component to this, and it only helps Democrats. Any Republican that thinks this helps there party is a complete dolt. What party do they think poorly educated and low skilled immigrants will vote for? Latin American voters have consistently empowered socialist governments and latino voting patterns have held true in the U.S. It's folly to think that will change just because some Republicans embrace amnesty.

centrehice
06-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Canada has no real Mexican immigrant population. There are scattered segments of Central Americans, but that is about it, but the numbers are very low. Blacks are probably 1% or less of the population and are from the Caribbean, & Africa itself, not via slavery.

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 01:02 PM
Canada has no real Mexican immigrant population. There are scattered segments of Central Americans, but that is about it, but the numbers are very low. Blacks are probably 1% or less of the population and are from the Caribbeand, & Africa itself, not via slavery.

If that is the case, then Canada is not a good example of mass immigration of the third world into western civilization.

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 03:40 PM
I didn't realize immigrants only came in black and Mexican.
My apology, we're having two different conversations.

And if you admit that there is politics in this, why would you say otherwise?

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 05:23 PM
What is Canada's largest group of immigrants? What percent of the population?

You'll have to point me to what you think I said about politics that is contradictory and I'll try to explain.

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 05:29 PM
#1 doesn't matter. You just made all immigration about 1 race and 1 other country.
#2 I think political lines is exactly what's it's drawn upon and you, an obvious conservative (no offense) saying it helps the Democratic party and not saying it helps the immigrants themselves kind of proves that, don't you think?

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 05:51 PM
No, I am making the point that there is a difference between immigration and mass immigration.

Assimilation can occur when immigration is a low percentage of the population. That seems to be the case with Canada. Mass immigration, on the other hand, does not allow the host culture to assimilate the new comers.

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 07:42 PM
You're assuming assimilation or melting pot is better than a mosaic. Canada says otherwise.

shrewsbury
06-30-2013, 08:09 PM
Who gets helped the most?

Under ideal circumstances it would help the immigrants and by these new citizens paying taxes and being productive members of society, everybody wins.

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 08:45 PM
You're assuming assimilation or melting pot is better than a mosaic. Canada says otherwise.

Have you had mass immigration from the 3rd world? No

Canada is not what I am talking about.

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 09:48 PM
Have you had mass immigration from the 3rd world? No

Canada is not what I am talking about.

No, racism and partisanship is. I'll leave you to it.

tpeichel
06-30-2013, 10:17 PM
So it is racist to think it might not be best for our country to allow a massive influx of immigrants from the third world?

Wickabee
06-30-2013, 10:57 PM
No. It's racist to think only blacks and Mexicans live there.

mrveggieman
07-01-2013, 08:51 AM
Who gets helped the most?

1) Democratic Party
2) Corporations

Who gets hurt the most?

1) Taxpayers
2) Low skilled/low income workers

The bigger problem is that mass immigration leads to self segregation rather than integration. You can already see it in the black and latino communities that have completely separate cultures. While there is no problem embracing your heritage, nations without a common and shared interest are doomed to conflict and eventual violence. In my lifetime, the country has never seemed more divided than right now and it's not just along political lines. I believe this Immigration Bill will make the current problems much worse and accelerate the looming conflict. I can't think of any examples where importing the third world on a mass scale to western civilizations has turned out positively. Can anyone else?

http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/f1/f1013d0b_909263d6_2291482-not_sure_if_serious.jpeg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=vzg87bIqrSKd3M&tbnid=xJR7XuVWEmdJ-M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Ft%2F506839%2Fdrum-fi%2F30&ei=O3vRUZ2TLo_C9QSz7YGABQ&bvm=bv.48572450,d.eWU&psig=AFQjCNH4k5uJPbLArR9ni-tsWq4Vp1I6sw&ust=1372769451323473)

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 09:47 AM
You are going to have to do a better job of explaining how it is racist to be against a policy that for the most part benefits foreigners, a political party, and big corporations.

mrveggieman
07-01-2013, 10:03 AM
You are going to have to do a better job of explaining how it is racist to be against a policy that for the most part benefits foreigners, a political party, and big corporations.

You make 0 sense. On one hand you conservatives scream that corporations are people too and are in favor of big business then turn around and claim that illegal immigrants some how help those big business that you love so much. Sorry buddy but you can't have it both ways.

shrewsbury
07-01-2013, 10:19 AM
veggie, don't put all us conservatives in one bag.

I think both sides are messed up on the immigration reform bill.

mrveggieman
07-01-2013, 10:26 AM
veggie, don't put all us conservatives in one bag.

I think both sides are messed up on the immigration reform bill.

Agreed that both sides are messed up. Also you have been leaning to the moderate side alot lately if I may say so Shrew.

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 10:31 AM
Corporations support amnesty because it will give them much more cheap labor, it will drive down wages, and they won't have to worry about fines for hiring illegals.

The increased competition will hinder low skilled Americans from getting off food stamps, unemployment, etc which will continue to burden the middle class taxpayers who must support them.

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 11:04 AM
So far the liberal rebuttals to my post have basically been racist and troll.

If you have some great arguments about the value of mass immigration, I'd love to hear them, but just know that if you use government sources I will be quite skeptical because this is an administration that has told us that Obamacare would drive down healthcare costs, a video caused the Benghazi riots, and that the government wasn't spying on us.

Wickabee
07-01-2013, 12:06 PM
You make 0 sense. On one hand you conservatives scream that corporations are people too and are in favor of big business then turn around and claim that illegal immigrants some how help those big business that you love so much. Sorry buddy but you can't have it both ways.

Some people think the entire third world is Africa and Mexico. These people think this so they can sleep at night knowing those people in Bangladesh making your shoes for 2¢ a day aren't being abused because they're not "third world."

Pedicel, I think your mistake was trying to claim this isn't along political lines. You're spewing the party line on this and every subject. The media, mainstream and otherwise, has divided the entire continent into Liberals and Conservatives so that we'll all watch while the parties fight. Now, I'm not saying one way or the other on this particular issue, but you made the entire thread about party lines in your first post.

That's what's going to kill us.

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 12:32 PM
Plenty of "conservatives" are supporting mass immigration so this issue is not simply across party lines.

Regardless, you have yet to present a compelling argument for the benefits of mass immigration. You say it is great for the foreigners, but unfortunately it comes at the expense of citizens.

Is there a point where opposition to third world mass migration does not become racist? Is the number 20 million? 30 million? 50 million? 100 million?

At some point importing so many people with low education, low skills, and different cultural beliefs has to significantly change the host country, no?

Wickabee
07-01-2013, 01:10 PM
Who said I was trying to defend it. I'm saying everything breaks down to party in the end.
Case in point, where's Rubio?

shrewsbury
07-01-2013, 01:33 PM
so 47 million new taxpayers is not good? 47 million new citizens who can enter the fields of science, education, and politics is not good? 47 million new friends and neighbors is not good?

mrveggieman
07-01-2013, 01:36 PM
Not to veer off topic but illegal immigration wouldn't sting as much if there was a fair tax. That way we could still collect tax revenue off of them just like we could with legals.

JustAlex
07-01-2013, 03:32 PM
Conservatives know very well what's going on.

To their credit (and I HATE to give them ANY credit) they understand that Hispanics are NOT conservatives and will NOT vote for the GOP.

Meaning that the immigration bill only cements more votes for future democrats and makes it even harder for the GOP to ever win again at the national level.

And to that I say......GOOD!

I can't wait for the day that GOP is long gone and forgotten.


Anyways, this is still the biggest reason why they are so against this....everything else they say is nonsense excuses.

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 06:05 PM
so 47 million new taxpayers is not good? 47 million new citizens who can enter the fields of science, education, and politics is not good? 47 million new friends and neighbors is not good?

Low income workers will not pay income tax. The 7.1% FICA the government collects from their low income will in no way cover what they collect from the government in healthcare, food, education, scholarships, etc. along with benefits that many of them will be eligible for as a minority U.S. citizens.

Those with higher education will be competing with all of the unemployed recent graduates as well as other unemployed.

I'm not sure how people can look at adding 47 million foreigners as positive when we can't educate or employ the citizens that we have. Are we going to start borrowing $2 trillion per year instead of over $1 trillion to try and keep this system afloat?

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 06:28 PM
"Although as to other foreigners it is thought better to discourage their settling together in large masses, wherein, as in our German settlements, they preserve for a long time their own languages, habits, and principles of government, and that they should distribute themselves sparsely among the natives for quicker amalgamation, yet English emigrants are without this inconvenience. They differ from us little but in their principles of government, and most of those (merchants excepted) who come here, are sufficiently disposed to adopt ours." --Thomas Jefferson to George Flower, 1817. ME 15:140

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 06:52 PM
In his Notes on the State of Virginia (1787), Jefferson reflects:


"It is for the happiness of those united in society to harmonize as much as possi- ble in matters which they must of necessity transact together. Civil government being the sole object of forming societies, its administration must be conducted by common consent.



"Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours perhaps are more peculiar than those of any other in the universe. It is a composition of the freest principles of the English Constitution, with others derived from natural right and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of abso- lute monarchies. Yet from such we are to expect the greatest number of emi- grants." (3)

Jefferson warns, nearly prophetically:


"They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an un- bounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In pro- portion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its directions, and render it a heterogeneous, in- coherent, distracted mass." (4)

tpeichel
07-01-2013, 07:00 PM
We let the Boston Bombers into the country and hosted those that perpetrated the 9-11 attack, how about we offer citizenship to some of those Syrian Rebels that our government is supporting? Oh, they just sawed off the head of a Catholic priest you say? That's just a part of their cultural tradition. Multiculturalism is all good.

mrveggieman
07-02-2013, 08:13 AM
We let the Boston Bombers into the country and hosted those that perpetrated the 9-11 attack, how about we offer citizenship to some of those Syrian Rebels that our government is supporting? Oh, they just sawed off the head of a Catholic priest you say? That's just a part of their cultural tradition. Multiculturalism is all good.

So what do you suggest? Some good ole ethnic cleansing?

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 10:51 AM
The current system was not able to identify known extremists that ended up blowing up alot of people in Boston. I would halt all immigration immediately and reevaluate the system from top to bottom.

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 11:09 AM
Conservatives know very well what's going on.

To their credit (and I HATE to give them ANY credit) they understand that Hispanics are NOT conservatives and will NOT vote for the GOP.

Meaning that the immigration bill only cements more votes for future democrats and makes it even harder for the GOP to ever win again at the national level.

And to that I say......GOOD!

I can't wait for the day that GOP is long gone and forgotten.


Anyways, this is still the biggest reason why they are so against this....everything else they say is nonsense excuses.

in case you haven't noticed, your beloved Democratic party is quite authoritarian. Now you want to import 47 million voters who have traditonally supported authoritarian style governments so the Democrats can be a permanent majority?

Do you think the Democrats will become more or less authoritarian once their power becomes permanent?

What is more important to you, the success of the Democratic Party or individual liberty and freedom?

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 11:31 AM
An authoritarian? Oh we do get dramatic don't we.

Star_Cards
07-02-2013, 11:46 AM
Who gets helped the most?

1) Democratic Party
2) Corporations

Who gets hurt the most?

1) Taxpayers
2) Low skilled/low income workers

The bigger problem is that mass immigration leads to self segregation rather than integration. You can already see it in the black and latino communities that have completely separate cultures. While there is no problem embracing your heritage, nations without a common and shared interest are doomed to conflict and eventual violence. In my lifetime, the country has never seemed more divided than right now and it's not just along political lines. I believe this Immigration Bill will make the current problems much worse and accelerate the looming conflict. I can't think of any examples where importing the third world on a mass scale to western civilizations has turned out positively. Can anyone else?

I don't think a countries that has different cultures is doomed. Just because there are different cultures doesn't mean there are shared interests as America's in general. The United States was more of less formed on many varying cultures. We are more of less a melting pot based off of the many different races and religions or people that are citizens. The political divide does seem rather strong, but it was pretty strong in decades passed and further as well. The current divide doesn't have a lot to do with cultures.

I don't think mass immigration hurts tax payers at all. I think it helps. Get undocumented workers documented and paying into the tax system. At the moment, anyone being paid under the table isn't paying taxes while using the services that taxes provide.

Star_Cards
07-02-2013, 11:52 AM
Not to veer off topic but illegal immigration wouldn't sting as much if there was a fair tax. That way we could still collect tax revenue off of them just like we could with legals.

exactly. a fair tax means anyone making money under the table (undocumented workers, criminals, gamblers, guys on ebay selling cards, and so on) pay their taxes when they purchase goods that are new.

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 11:56 AM
I'd say a government that has been secretly collecting credit card transactions, phone records, and internet communications of U.S. citizens is pretty damn authoritarian.

How about the police license plate scanners that automatically scan your license plate and records the time and location of your vehicle?

How about a government that claims the power to assassinate its citizens without due process?

How about a government that claims the power to force you to buy a service or face jail time or a fine?

If that is not authoritarian, how would you describe it? Sure we still have freedoms, but if you can't see the direction we are headed, then you are blind.

mrveggieman
07-02-2013, 12:04 PM
I'd say a government that has been secretly collecting credit card transactions, phone records, and internet communications of U.S. citizens is pretty damn authoritarian.

How about the police license plate scanners that automatically scan your license plate and records the time and location of your vehicle?

How about a government that claims the power to assassinate its citizens without due process?

How about a government that claims the power to force you to buy a service or face jail time or a fine?

If that is not authoritarian, how would you describe it? Sure we still have freedoms, but if you can't see the direction we are headed, then you are blind.


You really are a fanboy if you think that things would have been any better under a republican president.

mrveggieman
07-02-2013, 12:04 PM
exactly. a fair tax means anyone making money under the table (undocumented workers, criminals, gamblers, guys on ebay selling cards, and so on) pay their taxes when they purchase goods that are new.

Oh no, please no more taxes on ebay. :sign0020:

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 12:47 PM
So we have 10 million illegals consuming services and paying no taxes. Let's look at how much we can hope to collect from someone supporting a family of 4 that is making minimum wage when we make them a citizen.

1880 hours in a year is pretty standard and at $10/hour we'll round up to an even $20,000 income for the year.

The government will collect no income tax and around $1500 from the individual and $1500 from the employer.

The government will refund the individual $1000 for each kid, plus a couple grand for the Earned Income Credit, so now the government is in the hole for these newly minted, low skill Americans.

We will stil be footing a yearly $3000 bil to educate each of the children. They will now qualify for food stamps which is a maximum of around $670/ month for a family of 4 in this finacial situation.

Plus, they will consume much more healthcare. I pay out of pocket right now and my bill is nearly $2,000/ month for a family of 4 and it is only going up. The Obamacare fine will come nowhere near covering what will be consumed.

Bottom line is that we will pay out instead of collect taxes from the low income amnestied illegals and they will be elgible to collect even more from our generous system.

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 12:55 PM
You really are a fanboy if you think that things would have been any better under a republican president.

I agree for the most part but it doesn't make this government any less authoritarian.

shrewsbury
07-02-2013, 01:40 PM
1880 hours in a year is pretty standard

so they don't work 40 hours per week?

2080 is the standard for a fulltime, 40 hours per week employee. and who pays only $28 in taxes per week? even at a 10% tax rate at $10 you are at $40!?


low income amnestied illegals

so all "illegals" only work minimum wage jobs and always will?

I think you may have stereotyped yourself into fear

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 02:24 PM
The individual pays 7% of gross and the employer pays 7% of gross. They may withhold some for income tax but that will all get returned.

200 more hours would be $2000 so the government would collect $300 more; inconsequential when you look at the outlays.

I am aware that all immigrants will not be low income, but the majority will be. After all, don't liberals keep telling us we need them to do the menial labor because these are the jobs "Americans won't do"?

If they have attained a higher level of education, then they will be competing for jobs with our children who have taken on massive debt to get a college degree. How many will remain unemployed because the Democrats told you that we need to give these foreigners a chance?

shrewsbury
07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
I do have issues with this, but I am unsure what the compromise should or could be.
We also have a million soldiers who will need jobs, do they take priority over regular civilians?

what would be your answer to solve this?

centrehice
07-02-2013, 03:07 PM
What is Canada's largest group of immigrants? What percent of the population?

You'll have to point me to what you think I said about politics that is contradictory and I'll try to explain.


German decent would be among the largest, followed closely by Celts in the form or Scottish/Irish. There are more white American immigrants to Canada per year then there are Blacks or Latinos.

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
I am pretty sure the solution isn't to import 47 million foreigners to compete for jobs with them.

centrehice
07-02-2013, 03:26 PM
Of that 47 million, you have about half of that that is in the work-force legally. So now you have a new Federal Income Tax base of 20 Million plus, new taxpayers.

That is how you have to look at it. In terms of taking jobs away from Americans? A 23 year old white American male would rather smoke week and eat Alpha-Getti than work for minimum wage.

habsheaven
07-02-2013, 03:29 PM
German decent would be among the largest, followed closely by Celts in the form or Scottish/Irish. There are more white American immigrants to Canada per year then there are Blacks or Latinos.

I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I would suggest that Canada's fastest and largest immigrant population is Asian (mostly Chinese) and at least here in the Atlantic province we have a very large Middle Eastern immigrant population. The Celts, Scottish and Irish came before we were a country.

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 03:29 PM
This thread reminds me of listening to my German grandfather ranting about Hungarians. Only time he ever shows any sort of racism.

centrehice
07-02-2013, 03:31 PM
Hungarians speak better German better than the Germans do. Without slang.

habsheaven
07-02-2013, 03:32 PM
Those 47 million immigrants are also consumers. That's a whole lot of economic growth that most countries would love to have. In Canada, we celebrate multi-culturalism, not assimilation.

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 03:36 PM
I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I would suggest that Canada's fastest and largest immigrant population is Asian (mostly Chinese) and at least here in the Atlantic province we have a very large Middle Eastern immigrant population. The Celts, Scottish and Irish came before we were a country.

Canada was paying Germans (likely others as well) to come here and work as late as the 1950/60s. My grandfather was one of them. At the same time, yeah, anyone who goes to the Greater Vancouver Area knows that there is major and constant immigration from China, Japan, both Koreas and every other nation in the area. I've lived as far east as Calgary, and it was evident even there, in Canada's Texas. In Toronto, I'm told, there is a HUGE Carribean community that is growing daily. Montreal has neighbourhoods that make Boston's Irish community and New York's Italian community look "cute." Meanwhile Scots, French and Ukranians are scattered throughout the entire country.

centrehice
07-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Habs, you still have to remember that UK passport holders can come to Canada for a 1 week visit, and invoke "Landed Immigrant" status, and basically stay forever. We cannot do the same when we travel to the UK.

Certainly the old migration until about 1980 were in the form of UK Landed Immigrant status holders, since their is no Homestead Act any more.

Now, it's like you said, many Asian Immigrants and some from various Middle-Eastern countries. Chinese specifically come to Canada for their children to be educated at a very low cost to themselves. But now with China barging into Middle-Class, they are getting educated and returning to China.

Other Asian immigrants in countries that are not moving with technology in their home countries, remain and become Canadians.

tpeichel
07-02-2013, 03:38 PM
German decent would be among the largest, followed closely by Celts in the form or Scottish/Irish. There are more white American immigrants to Canada per year then there are Blacks or Latinos.

For the most part, Canada is not importing people into their society that are from uncivilized countries.

The problem with Americans is that we think that our society is so great that we can pluck a foreigner from any uncivilized society and they will soon adapt our shared belief in individual freedom and liberty.

After 9-11 I remember wondering how the killers could go through with their plan. After living here, didn't they see how wonderful our country was and how precious it was to live in a free society?

The truth is that other societies do not share the same values and beliefs as us and just giving them citizenship is not going to change that.

A small group that does not share a common belief system is not a problem. However, once you get a mass of people with disparate beliefs, that's when a society changes.

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 03:38 PM
Hungarians speak better German better than the Germans do. Without slang.
awesome

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 03:41 PM
For the most part, Canada is not importing people into their society that are from uncivilized countries.


You need to do two things:
1 - define "uncivilized country"
2 - Go to Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal

centrehice
07-02-2013, 03:41 PM
For the most part, Canada is not importing people into their society that are from uncivilized countries.

The problem with Americans is that we think that our society is so great that we can pluck a foreigner from any uncivilized society and they will soon adapt our shared belief in individual freedom and liberty.

After 9-11 I remember wondering how the killers could go through with their plan. After living here, didn't they see how wonderful our country was and how precious it was to live in a free society?

The truth is that other societies do not share the same values and beliefs as us and just giving them citizenship is not going to change that.

A small group that does not share a common belief system is not a problem. However, once you get a mass of people with disparate beliefs, that's when a society changes.


Nope, ...... Canada has had a huge refugee influx over the past 20 years from Africa.


Toronto and Montreal have a more diverse culture of Africans than any two other countries in the Western World. In 2011 Toronto was named the most Cosmopolitan city in the World.

mrveggieman
07-02-2013, 03:48 PM
You need to do two things:
1 - define "uncivilized country"
2 - Go to Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal

He dosen't even need to leave the states. He can simply take a visit to South Carolina.

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 03:50 PM
He dosen't even need to leave the states. He can simply take a visit to South Carolina.

I get the feeling he thinks Canada has, like, 4 people who aren't white. I don't think South Carolina would fix anything.

mrveggieman
07-02-2013, 03:54 PM
I get the feeling he thinks Canada has, like, 4 people who aren't white. I don't think South Carolina would fix anything.

No I was saying he can see a perfect example of an uncivilized society by visiting south carolina. Every time I have to go to that place I want to throw up.

ajcorleone
07-02-2013, 04:07 PM
Why go unless you have obligations that make you?
No I was saying he can see a perfect example of an uncivilized society by visiting south carolina. Every time I have to go to that place I want to throw up.

Wickabee
07-02-2013, 04:07 PM
No I was saying he can see a perfect example of an uncivilized society by visiting south carolina. Every time I have to go to that place I want to throw up.

Ahh, I'm still uncertain what "uncivilized" means specifically.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 01:09 PM
Ahh, I'm still uncertain what "uncivilized" means specifically.Any country operating under Sharia law, most of Africa, parts of Central and South America. I am sure there are more, but you get the idea.Generally speaking, if you still burn witches, chop off body parts as punishment, believe that raping a baby girl will cure your AIDS, support Honor Killings, or commit genocide, you're probably uncivilized.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 01:21 PM
Those 47 million immigrants are also consumers. That's a whole lot of economic growth that most countries would love to have. In Canada, we celebrate multi-culturalism, not assimilation.England thought the same thing, but is now having second thoughts after watching one of their soldier's head sawed off in broad daylight by an immigrant.But maybe Canada does a better job of screening out the extremists.

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 01:27 PM
Any country operating under Sharia law, most of Africa, parts of Central and South America. I am sure there are more, but you get the idea.Generally speaking, if you still burn witches, chop off body parts as punishment, believe that raping a baby girl will cure your AIDS, support Honor Killings, or commit genocide, you're probably uncivilized.

I don't want generalities and no, I don't get the idea. What requisites make a country "uncivilized". All I really see there is "brown and/or black people" followed by some stuff that may or may not apply to the countries you're talking about, though I don't know which those are, since "generally speaking" isn't really good enough for me on this one.

Any reason you didn't mention eastern Europe along side all those brown and black countries? Some of those nations are ridiculously uncivilized...only real difference being their whiteness.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 01:36 PM
Nope, ...... Canada has had a huge refugee influx over the past 20 years from Africa.


Toronto and Montreal have a more diverse culture of Africans than any two other countries in the Western World. In 2011 Toronto was named the most
Cosmopolitan city in the World.

What percent of the population are African immigrants? The 2006 census data I saw did not have them in the Top 20, so they were less than .8% of the populations. Let's assume that growth has been huge in the last 6 years and the percent is now 1.5%. That is still only 500,000 out of a population of 35 million.

Get the percent to around 10% by adding 3 million Africans, then you will have the problematic situation I am describing.

Congratulations to Canada for seeming to have a reasonable and manageable immigration policy.

centrehice
07-03-2013, 04:04 PM
Net migration to the USA in the 1st 6 months of this year from anywhere in the World is zero, so just open the cupboard and put your soapbox away for the time being until it's needed whenever facts occur.

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 05:04 PM
Congratulations to Canada for seeming to have a reasonable and manageable immigration policy.
Thanks, but totally unnecessary, unlike an actual definition of "uncivilized country," which is completely necessary to take any of this seriously and not be forced to think it's just racist ranting.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 05:27 PM
Net migration to the USA in the 1st 6 months of this year from anywhere in the World is zero, so just open the cupboard and put your soapbox away for the time being until it's needed whenever facts occur.

Irrelevant when they are proposing amnesty for over 10 million illegal immigrants with an expected increase of tens of millions.

centrehice
07-03-2013, 05:41 PM
Do you want to fill the prisons or the federal coffers with Income Tax money?, that is the decision. Right now you are filling the prisons, and spending upwards of 175 Million in deportation costs.

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 05:53 PM
Do you want to fill the prisons or the federal coffers with Income Tax money?, that is the decision. Right now you are filling the prisons, and spending upwards of 175 Million in deportation costs.

True, but when privatized prisons make so much money for your favorite party's biggest supporters, it's tough to look past that and see reason.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:03 PM
Thanks, but totally unnecessary, unlike an actual definition of "uncivilized country," which is completely necessary to take any of this seriously and not be forced to think it's just racist ranting.

I'm not sure how to help you because the difference between civilized and uncivilized is pretty easy. Does this seem civilized or uncivilized to you?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/06/13/190683502/honduras-claims-unwanted-title-of-worlds-murder-capitalLatin America is riddled with crime, and no place is more violent than Honduras. It has just 8 million people, but with as many as 20 people killed there every day, it now has the highest murder rate in the world.

It would be easy to blame drug trafficking. Honduras and its Central American neighbors have long served as a favored smuggling corridor for South American cocaine headed north to the U.S.

But there are a number of factors that have contributed to Honduras' out-of-control killings. It involves not only geography but gangs and a government teetering on the edge of collapse.


In this violent country, the most violent city is San Pedro Sula, where more than 1,200 people were killed last year.

The outskirts of town are the roughest part. We were told that the safest time to drive there is in the early morning when the gangs are still asleep.
As we enter the neighborhood of Rivera Hernandez, our driver tells us we should roll down our tinted windows so that people can see us. If they can't get a glimpse of us, it will make them more suspicious.
He also crosses himself a couple of times as we enter the colonia, or neighborhood.
Gangs fight viciously for territory here. Caught in the middle are residents who pay them so-called taxes, for everything from a safe bus ride to running a small shop.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:12 PM
Civilized or uncivilized?


A teacher has been tortured and beheaded by her neighbours in a Papua New Guinea village because they say she was a witch responsible for the death of a sick villager.

The angry mob brandishing guns, machetes and axes surrounded her house and pulled Helen Rumbali, her sister and two nieces away. They then burnt down the house.

They say a swarm of fire flies led them from the deceased person's grave to her house - sure evidence they say that she was a sorcerer and was practicing black magic.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/10/article-2338904-1A3C8DDB000005DC-403_634x436.jpg
Mobs: Violence is escalating in Papua New Guinea; villagers in February burnt a woman alive, pictured, after accusing her of witch craft

Helen's older sister and younger nieces were slashed with knives, then released after negotiations with police. But the mob went on to torture the former teacher, in her 40s, and then publicly cut off her head.

The sickening and heinous act is one of many horrific similar stories coming out from the island, often considered a paradise in the Pacific.

In February a young woman was stripped by angry armed villages, tied up and burnt alive. Her crime? Allegedly more black magic.



The beautiful tropical island, which was only discovered by the western world in the 1930s, is a complex mix of ancient tribes and western industrial influences, from the gold rush period and more recently, mining.

But for tribes people still living by ancient social rules, violence, as opposed to dialogue, is the most common means of problem solving.

Speaking to the Mail Online, Dr Nina Rajani, a former Medicines Sans Frontières volunteer who worked in a hospital clinic in Papua New Guinea, said violence was so bad, she was unable to leave her house at night.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:17 PM
Think the Swedes are questioning the value of multiculturism?

Unrest in Stockholm’s suburbs continued for a fourth night as rioters showed their anger over a police shooting a week ago by setting fire to cars and buildings and pelting emergency workers with stones.

As many as 30 cars burned in the Swedish capital’s southern suburbs, while 11 were set alight in the Husby area, north of the city centre, where the violence broke out four days ago, police spokesman Kjell Lindgren (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_person=Kjell%20Lindgren&article=true) said by phone today. Police detained one person, a 16-year-old girl suspected of preparing an act of arson. That followed eight arrests since Tuesday.
“While the situation has become better in Husby, where a lot of local people have become engaged to calm things down, the situation has intensified on the southern side of the city,” Mr Lindgren said.


http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1403274.1369249583%21/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_140/image.jpgThree nights’ rioting in deprived areas of Stockholm shocks placid Sweden (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/three-nights-rioting-in-deprived-areas-of-stockholm-shocks-placid-sweden-1.1403276)
http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1402695.1369226264%21/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_140/image.jpgYouths riot in Sweden for third night (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/youths-riot-in-sweden-for-third-night-1.1402685)



“We’re hoping that there will be moderation also in the southern parts but we will continue to show our presence in the suburbs with strengthened resources.”

The unrest started May 19th in Husby - an area constructed in the 1970s and dotted with high-rise apartment blocks - about a week after police killed a 69-year-old man brandishing a knife.

Sweden (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_location=Sweden&article=true), where immigrants bear the brunt of Scandinavia’s highest unemployment rate, has suffered similar bouts of unrest before. In 2008, rioters in Rosengaard in the southern city of Malmoe clashed with police after setting fire to cars and bins.

Those riots also spread to Stockholm’s Tensta and Husby suburbs. Last night, firemen trying to rescue a restaurant in Skogaas were attacked by stone-throwing youths. Police officers were also attacked in Husby.

Several other suburbs also reported vandalism and fires.

Three police officers suffered minor injuries from rocks, Mr Lindgren said. None of them required hospital care, he said. In Raagsved, 11 people were also detained before being taken away in police buses.

Police are working to identify more rioters, many of whom were masked. There were similar scenes on Tuesday, when about 30 cars were set on fire in some of Sweden’s most ethnically diverse suburbs, also including Norsborg and Vaarberg.

A Husby school and a cultural centre were set alight while bins burned across other suburbs. A school was set on fire in Skaerholmen and a police station and buildings in central Jakobsberg were vandalised. The average age of people arrested on Tuesday was about 20, police said. Unemployment is higher among immigrants in Stockholm (http://www.irishtimes.com/search/search-7.1213540?tag_location=Stockholm&article=true) than residents born in Sweden.

centrehice
07-03-2013, 06:19 PM
I'm not sure how to help you because the difference between civilized and uncivilized is pretty easy. Does this seem civilized or uncivilized to you?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/06/13/190683502/honduras-claims-unwanted-title-of-worlds-murder-capitalLatin America is riddled with crime, and no place is more violent than Honduras. It has just 8 million people, but with as many as 20 people killed there every day, it now has the highest murder rate in the world.

It would be easy to blame drug trafficking. Honduras and its Central American neighbors have long served as a favored smuggling corridor for South American cocaine headed north to the U.S.

But there are a number of factors that have contributed to Honduras' out-of-control killings. It involves not only geography but gangs and a government teetering on the edge of collapse.


In this violent country, the most violent city is San Pedro Sula, where more than 1,200 people were killed last year.

The outskirts of town are the roughest part. We were told that the safest time to drive there is in the early morning when the gangs are still asleep.
As we enter the neighborhood of Rivera Hernandez, our driver tells us we should roll down our tinted windows so that people can see us. If they can't get a glimpse of us, it will make them more suspicious.
He also crosses himself a couple of times as we enter the colonia, or neighborhood.
Gangs fight viciously for territory here. Caught in the middle are residents who pay them so-called taxes, for everything from a safe bus ride to running a small shop.

I've been to Honduras twice, many years ago, last time 1994. Most of the people that live a rural life are friendly, respectful, and go about their business, same with 98% of those in the cities. It's the 2% of the population that are causing all the problems, as crime and drugs are a cheaper way to make money, and violence carries instant respect.

Urban Honduras is exactly like Chicago or Detroit with 900 plus murders per year.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:19 PM
More wonderful multiculturalism from the UK:

A gang of 20 hooded youths stormed a pub after the Champions League final before dragging away a 25-year old man and stabbing him to death in scenes 'like a horror film', friends said today. 'True gent' Luke Fitzpatrick was killed and his father Bernard, who threw himself on top of his son in a desperate attempt to shield him, remains in a critical condition in hospital after being stabbed four times. The pair were attacked when a gang armed with bats and knives stormed the north London pub after father and son had watched Chelsea win the cup together at on Saturday.... 'There were about 20 young black guys all with their hoods up armed with sticks and bats and knives. They just ran in the pub and started trying to attack people. It was really frightening. But it should not have happened to Luke, it shouldn’t have happened to anyone, but he was a complete innocent.'

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:21 PM
And here in the U.S.:

Three beheadings in two different states and they happened here in the United States, not Mexico.

Former DEA supervisor Phil Jordan says all three beheadings have cartel written all over them. They happened in Arizona and Oklahoma in the past year.
A murder mystery is now unraveling on a stretch of North Reservation Road in Tucson, Ariz. County workers found a headless man lying on the side of the road Jan. 6. The man's hands and feet were reportedly missing, too.

"It would lead me to believe the message wanted to be sent. This is one of the ways they do it in Mexico, Colombia and other places," says Jordan.
Jordan says the cartels are getting bolder in carrying out their beheadings across the border. He says we only used to see these crimes in Mexico.
"They don't have any borders," says Jordan.
More than 600 miles from the border, a 19-year-old human trafficking victim was found beheaded in Oklahoma. Carina Saunders was stuffed into a bag and left in a grocery store parking lot.

"People know if they get on the wrong side of the fence, they'll be dealt with," says Jordan.
The police chief in the area says two men running the trafficking ring killed Saunders to send a message to the other victims. Jordan says the cartels' calling card is all over this case. Trafficking and smuggling are their top moneymakers. Revenge is the price of doing business.

"Definitely a cartel hit," says Jordan.

Investigators in Chandler, Ariz., say cartel operatives came from Mexico to kill 38-year-old Martin Alejandro Cota Monroy. His beheaded body was found in his apartment.

"One is too many; two is too many. Three should send an alarm," says Jordan.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:24 PM
There's also some action in Milwaukee. The media refuse to report it, but you can probably guess that it isn't gangs of Mormons.

Police Investigating Multiple Beatings Near State Fair Park

Local law enforcement agencies are investigating several incidents near State Fair Park late Thursday night.

Milwaukee police said that around 11:10 p.m., squads were sent to the area for reports of battery, fighting and property damage being caused by an unruly crowd of "hundreds" of people. One officer described it as a "mob beating."

Police said the group of young people attacked fairgoers who were leaving the fair grounds. Police said that some victims were attacked while walking. They said others were pulled out of cars and off of motorcycles before being beaten.

Milwaukee police said at least seven people were taken to area hospitals with non-life-threatening injuries. They said that number could go up as other responding agencies release information.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:29 PM
Somalis in Minnesota (when they aren't back in the middle east getting training):

Twenty-nine people have been indicted in a sex trafficking ring spanning three states and allegedly run by Minneapolis-based Somali gangs. An indictment unsealed Monday in U.S. District Court in Nashville says one of the goals of the gangs was to recruit females under age 18, including some under age 14, and force them into prostitution in exchange for cash, drugs or other items. The indictment says the sex ring operated in Minneapolis, Nashville, and Columbus, Ohio.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:36 PM
Do you want to fill the prisons or the federal coffers with Income Tax money?, that is the decision. Right now you are filling the prisons, and spending upwards of 175 Million in deportation costs.

You do realize that 50% of taxpayers do not pay any income tax?

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:44 PM
Mexican beheadings:
This month has been perhaps the worst in terms of decapitations.

In the past 10 days alone, there have been an unprecedented 81 beheaded bodies discovered in the country.

In early May, 14 decapitated bodies were found in Nuevo Laredo, just over the border from Texas.

Last week, 18 bodies and severed heads were left in two mini-vans near Lake Chapala, an area popular with tourists in western Mexico.

Finally, in one of the most shocking incidents of its kind since the current drug war began, 49 headless and mutilated bodies were left in plastic bags on a road outside the industrial city of Monterrey.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:46 PM
Beheading in a Saudi Arabian parking lot:
Shocking footage has surfaced of a Sudanese man being publicly beheaded in Saudi Arabia for being a 'sorcerer'.

Crouched on his knees and blindfolded, Abdul Hamid Bin Hussain Bin Moustafa al-Fakki was executed in a car park Medina, in the west of the country, as dozens looked on last month.

The grainy footage - which MailOnline believes is too graphic to publish - shows the executioner lining his sword up on the back of Abdul Hamid's neck, before one swift stroke decapitates him.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 06:50 PM
The story points out that they did closely follow the rules.
Rizana Nafeek (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-executes-maid-appeals-reprieve-18169880), a young nanny from Sri Lanka, was beheaded by sword this week in Saudi Arabia, punishment for allegedly killing a baby in 2007 when she was believed to be just 17.
The execution has spurred international outcry, given Nafeek's age at the time of the incident and her limited access to a defense attorney. The beheading has also shined a light on the Arab kingdom's medieval system of punishment, which includes cutting the hands off thieves, executing women accused of adultery, and flogging men accused of being gay.
Few details of Nafeek's execution have leaked from the country's tightly controlled media, but the interior ministry said her head was severed from her body in public in Dawadmy, a dusty suburb of the capital Riyadh.
In modern times, women in saudi Arabia condemned to death were traditionally executed by gunfire, but in recent years they have routinely been beheaded, an historic form of execution ordered under sharia, or the Muslim religious law that governs the country.
The death penalty is routinely allowed for criminals convicted of murder, rape, armed robbery, drug trafficking or drug use, and apostasy or the renunciation of the Islamic faith, according to human rights group Amnesty International.
Some 82 executions were carried out in Saudi Arabia last year, according to Amnesty. It is unknown how many of them were women or carried out by sword, but the majority of the condemned were foreigners, like Nafeek.
Beheadings in Saudi Arabia are governed by certain rules.
They are conducted in public, typically in town squares or near prisons. The condemned, as well as the executioner, typically wear white. The convict is blindfolded, handcuffed and often given a sedative. A plastic tarp, several feet wide, is sometimes spread out around the convict to make cleaning up the blood and recovering her head easier.
The heads of the condemned can sometimes roll several feet from the body, said Saudi Arabia's leading executioner in a rare 2003 interview with Saudi newspaper Arab News.
"The criminal was tied and blindfolded. With one stroke of the sword I severed his head. It rolled meters away," said executioner Muhammad Saad al-Beshi, recalling his first beheading.
Al-Beshi said he has executed as many as 10 people in one day, by sword and by bullet.
"It depends what they ask me to use. Sometimes they ask me to use a sword and sometimes a gun. But most of the time I use the sword," he said.
He said he keeps his sword razor sharp, and allows his children to help clean it.
"People are amazed how fast it can separate the head from the body," he said.

Executioners like Al-Beshi are trained professionals who also carry out amputations, severing the hands, feet and tongues, of convicted criminals.

The executioner said it is not uncommon for spectators to pass out at a beheading.

"There are many people who faint when they witness an execution. I don't know why they come and watch if they don't have the stomach for it," he said.

The goal of the executions is to provide justice to the victims' families, said Brian Evans, director of the Amnesty's death penalty abolition campaign. As a result, a victim's family is allowed to call off the execution at the last minute.

"There is always a dramatic moment where the victim's family has to give the OK, a thumbs up or thumbs down," said Evans.

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 07:01 PM
I'm not sure how to help you because the difference between civilized and uncivilized is pretty easy. Does this seem civilized or uncivilized to you?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/06/13/190683502/honduras-claims-unwanted-title-of-worlds-murder-capitalLatin America is riddled with crime, and no place is more violent than Honduras. It has just 8 million people, but with as many as 20 people killed there every day, it now has the highest murder rate in the world.

It would be easy to blame drug trafficking. Honduras and its Central American neighbors have long served as a favored smuggling corridor for South American cocaine headed north to the U.S.

But there are a number of factors that have contributed to Honduras' out-of-control killings. It involves not only geography but gangs and a government teetering on the edge of collapse.


In this violent country, the most violent city is San Pedro Sula, where more than 1,200 people were killed last year.

The outskirts of town are the roughest part. We were told that the safest time to drive there is in the early morning when the gangs are still asleep.
As we enter the neighborhood of Rivera Hernandez, our driver tells us we should roll down our tinted windows so that people can see us. If they can't get a glimpse of us, it will make them more suspicious.
He also crosses himself a couple of times as we enter the colonia, or neighborhood.
Gangs fight viciously for territory here. Caught in the middle are residents who pay them so-called taxes, for everything from a safe bus ride to running a small shop.
Again, no actual definition just "I'll tell you which ones". What makes you the authority and why are you so against giving parameters so others can make up their own minds as to this definition instead of just taking your word for everything? Stuff like that makes it look like you're talking out your rectum. More telling though, again, absolutely nothing about violence in "white" countries. The same things happen all over the place, but you're only worried about the ones with different skin. Don't worry, I won't be back in here again. Have fun talking to yourself (a full page, impressive) and overloading a thread with stuff no one will read for the sheer amount posted all at once, yet not all at once. Back when I was a mod of another site, we called that "stat padding" and while it's not really sinister in any way, it does stifle conversation and create hostility with the forum. I'm not talking about posting 2 or 3 in a row, but this rant is ridiculous. Presentation does count for something, and I don't listen to things said out of anger and hatred.

tpeichel
07-03-2013, 08:01 PM
If you wanted the dictionary definition of uncivilized, you could have looked it up yourself. It was a silly request, so I provided numerous examples (which did include "white" countries) since you seemed to be unable to take my word for it.

In all your posts, you never addressed my main concern with mass migration. You never refuted my economic concerns and instead focused on calling me a racist and held up Canada as an example of how mass immigration works, which I clearly disproved.

Until the USA can educate and employ the citizens we currently have and has a system that filters out dangerous and extremist immigrants, I will continue to speak out against any further immigration.

centrehice
07-03-2013, 08:11 PM
You are never going to get immigrants to proscribe to the Protestant White past behaviour of US Citizens based on an English Speaking Anglo-Saxon origin. It's just not feasible.

Celebrate America and it's diversity, don't demand assimilation based on previous white lifestyle..

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 08:35 PM
If you wanted the dictionary definition of uncivilized
No. I want your definition of an uncivilized country. So far you've really only described skin color, since the behaviours you speak of are worldwide but you will only mention Brown and Black. Again, define uncivilized country. I know you aren't misunderstanding me. I know you're avoiding answering at all. I know you know you're wrong and I know you know you're talking about race, not civilized or non.

Wickabee
07-03-2013, 08:38 PM
Though, since you asked (funny, even the US doesn't fit this bill from Dictionary.com)civ·i·lize /ˈsɪvəˌlaɪz/ Show Spelled [siv-uh-lahyz] Show IPA , verb (used with object), civ·i·lized, civ·i·liz·ing. to bring out of a savage, uneducated, or rude state;

tpeichel
07-04-2013, 03:27 PM
You are never going to get immigrants to proscribe to the Protestant White past behaviour of US Citizens based on an English Speaking Anglo-Saxon origin. It's just not feasible.

Celebrate America and it's diversity, don't demand assimilation based on previous white lifestyle..


New citizens pledge to support and defend the original white Protestant ideals the Founders layed out in the Constitution. However, when you have lived under socialist type governments your whole life, you tend to want the same type of government as evidenced by Latino support for progressive politicians and policies.

It's no mistake that President Obama has proclaimed the desire to change the Constitution from a document restricting what the Federal Government can do to a document that enshrines what the Government must provide.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/09/23/why-the-fuss-obama-has-long-been-on-record-in-favor-of-redistribution/

“We still suffer from not having a Constitution that guarantees its citizens economic rights.” By positive economic rights, Obama means government protection against individual economic failures, such as low incomes, unemployment, poverty, lack of health care, and the like. Obama characterizes the Constitution as “a charter of negative liberties,” which “says what the states can’t do to you (and) what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf.” (Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you, to paraphrase John F. Kennedy). Obama regrets that the Constitution places “essential constraints” on the government’s ability to provide positive economic rights and that “we have not broken free” of these Constitutional impediments. Obama views the absence of positive economic liberties that the government must supply as a flaw in the Constitution that must be corrected as part of a liberal political agenda.


This is a socialist mentality and we are letting people into the country that will vote to continue us on the path from a country focused on individual liberty and freedom to one where power is centralized in Washington, D.C.

If you like how things have gone under the leadership of President Obama, then you are probably thrilled with the future outlook of America. Many of us are not.

I am against mass immigration because it mostly allows in people that will support an agenda that alters the true meaning of the constitution. I oppose it for economic reasons as we can't employ all of the people who are currently here and let in a majority of low skilled workers who will be an overall drain on the economy rather than an asset. And finally, I oppose it because many of the immigrants come from uncivilized societies. (Of course, not every individual is going to be uncivilized, but there is no mechanism to screen them as evidenced by a system that allowed in the Boston Bombers.)

centrehice
07-04-2013, 03:44 PM
You wouldn't utter a word if all the immigrants were WASPs. Your past posts more than adequately tell us that.

Wickabee
07-04-2013, 03:50 PM
How can anyone take "progressive" and make it a bad thing?

If you're not moving forward you're moving backward.

tpeichel
07-07-2013, 03:22 PM
Can you imagine a football game in America where the referee stabs a player and then the fans grab the ref, cut off his limbs and his head then display his head on a spike?

It sucks when reality is racist.

A soccer referee in Brazil was gruesomely quartered and beheaded after he fatally stabbed a player on the field during a match. The match took place June 30 at Pius XII stadium in Maranhao, northeastern Brazil.

According to Correio24horas, 30-year-old player Josenir dos Santos Abreu approached the 20-year-old referee, Octavio da Silva Catanhede Jordan, to argue a call.The two couldn't come to terms so Catanhede Jordan told the player to leave the field. Santos Abreu refused and the argument turned heated when the referee allegedly pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed Santos Abreu multiple times.

The player died en route to the hospital. Fans outraged by the stabbing - believed to be the player's friends and family - stormed the pitch and cornered Catanhede Jordan. The mob showed no mercy as they quartered and decapitated the referee and then placed his head on a stake.

Then there is the latest from Nigeria:

Islamic militants attacked a boarding school before dawn Saturday, dousing a dormitory in fuel and lighting it ablaze as students slept, survivors said. At least 30 people were killed in the deadliest attack yet on schools in Nigeria's embattled northeast.

Authorities blamed the violence on Boko Haram, a radical group whose name means "Western education is sacrilege." The militants have been behind a series of recent attacks on schools in the region, including one in which gunmen opened fire on children taking exams in a classroom.

mrveggieman
07-08-2013, 09:28 AM
Can you imagine a football game in America where the referee stabs a player and then the fans grab the ref, cut off his limbs and his head then display his head on a spike?

It sucks when reality is racist.

A soccer referee in Brazil was gruesomely quartered and beheaded after he fatally stabbed a player on the field during a match. The match took place June 30 at Pius XII stadium in Maranhao, northeastern Brazil.

According to Correio24horas, 30-year-old player Josenir dos Santos Abreu approached the 20-year-old referee, Octavio da Silva Catanhede Jordan, to argue a call.The two couldn't come to terms so Catanhede Jordan told the player to leave the field. Santos Abreu refused and the argument turned heated when the referee allegedly pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed Santos Abreu multiple times.

The player died en route to the hospital. Fans outraged by the stabbing - believed to be the player's friends and family - stormed the pitch and cornered Catanhede Jordan. The mob showed no mercy as they quartered and decapitated the referee and then placed his head on a stake.

Then there is the latest from Nigeria:

Islamic militants attacked a boarding school before dawn Saturday, dousing a dormitory in fuel and lighting it ablaze as students slept, survivors said. At least 30 people were killed in the deadliest attack yet on schools in Nigeria's embattled northeast.

Authorities blamed the violence on Boko Haram, a radical group whose name means "Western education is sacrilege." The militants have been behind a series of recent attacks on schools in the region, including one in which gunmen opened fire on children taking exams in a classroom.


So you are taking the actions of a couple fanatical loons and blaming an entire population of honest people. Typical conservative behavior.

Wickabee
07-08-2013, 11:10 AM
Well I must say I am amazed. You look into it, honestly and fully and with no bias, and proved white violence doesn't exist.

I'm assuming you're saying 2 beats 0 right?

tpeichel
07-08-2013, 06:58 PM
So you are taking the actions of a couple fanatical loons and blaming an entire population of honest people. Typical conservative behavior.

Nope. It is reality. Here are murder rates to help you out. Africa, Central America and South America have some of the highest murder rates in the world. That's a pretty good indication that you are living in a barbaric and uncivilized society, no?


The UNODC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_on_Drugs_and_Crime) made a study in 2012 that includes most countries of the world. The following lists show only the most recent data. Rates are calculated per 100,000 inhabitants. Intentional homicide in this case is defined as unlawful death purposefully inflicted on a person by another person.

By subregion



UNODC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_on_Drugs_and_Crime) murder rates most recent year


Subregion
Rate
Count
Region


Eastern Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Africa)
21.9
69,344
Africa


Middle Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Africa)
20.8
25,330
Africa


Northern Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Africa)
5.9
12,276
Africa


Southern Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Africa)
30.5
17,484
Africa


Western Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Africa)
15.4
44,671
Africa


Caribbean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean)
16.9
7,001
Americas


Central America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_America)
28.5
44,997
Americas


Northern America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_America)
3.9
13,558
Americas


South America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_America)
20.0
79,039
Americas


Central Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia)
6.1
3,667
Asia


Eastern Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Asia)
1.3
19,828
Asia


South-Eastern Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-Eastern_Asia)
6.0
34,787
Asia


Southern Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Asia)
3.8
63,102
Asia


Western Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Asia)
2.6
5,736
Asia


Eastern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe)
6.4
19,072
Europe


Northern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe)
1.5
1,432
Europe


Southern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe)
1.4
1,669
Europe


Western Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe)
1.0
1,852
Europe


Australasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australasia)
1.0
268
Oceania


Melanesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesia)
11.1
898
Oceania


Micronesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronesia)
2.5
10
Oceania


Polynesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesia)
0.1
3
Oceania

centrehice
07-08-2013, 07:17 PM
The Caribbean murder statistic is misleading. 75% of all those murders are in Jamaica, the other 13% in Haiti and scattered very remotely is the last 7% amongst another 35 Island countries.

I don't have the statistics for Cuba, but it's nowhere near the USA murder rate per capita.

Jamaica and Haiti aside the Caribbean is much safer than anywhere in the USA.

tpeichel
07-08-2013, 07:45 PM
The Caribbean murder statistic is misleading. 75% of all those murders are in Jamaica, the other 13% in Haiti and scattered very remotely is the last 7% amongst another 35 Island countries.

I don't have the statistics for Cuba, but it's nowhere near the USA murder rate per capita.

Jamaica and Haiti aside the Caribbean is much safer than anywhere in the USA.

You are correct on an absolute basis, but the per capita murder rates are overall higher than North America.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Flag_of_Anguilla.svg/22px-Flag_of_Anguilla.svg.png Anguilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anguilla)
6.8
1
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Flag_of_Antigua_and_Barbuda.svg/22px-Flag_of_Antigua_and_Barbuda.svg.png Antigua and Barbuda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua_and_Barbuda)
6.8
6
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Flag_of_the_Bahamas.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Bahamas.svg.png Bahamas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bahamas)
27.4
94
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Flag_of_Barbados.svg/22px-Flag_of_Barbados.svg.png Barbados (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados)
11.3
31
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Flag_of_the_British_Virgin_Islands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_British_Virgin_Islands.svg.png British Virgin Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Virgin_Islands)
8.6
2
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_the_Cayman_Islands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Cayman_Islands.svg.png Cayman Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayman_Islands)
8.4
5
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Flag_of_Cuba.svg/22px-Flag_of_Cuba.svg.png Cuba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba)
5.0
563
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Flag_of_Dominica.svg/22px-Flag_of_Dominica.svg.png Dominica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica)
22.1
15
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_the_Dominican_Republic.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Dominican_Republic.svg.png Dominican Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)
25.0
2,513
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Flag_of_Grenada.svg/22px-Flag_of_Grenada.svg.png Grenada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenada)
11.5
12
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png Guadeloupe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe)
7.0
32
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Flag_of_Haiti.svg/22px-Flag_of_Haiti.svg.png Haiti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti)
6.9
689
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Flag_of_Jamaica.svg/22px-Flag_of_Jamaica.svg.png Jamaica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica)
40.9
1,125
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/22px-Flag_of_France.svg.png Martinique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinique)
4.2
17
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Flag_of_Montserrat.svg/22px-Flag_of_Montserrat.svg.png Montserrat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montserrat)
19.7
1
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Flag_of_Puerto_Rico.svg/22px-Flag_of_Puerto_Rico.svg.png Puerto Rico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico)
26.2
983
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Flag_of_Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis.svg/22px-Flag_of_Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis.svg.png Saint Kitts and Nevis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis)
38.2
20
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/Flag_of_Saint_Lucia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Saint_Lucia.svg.png Saint Lucia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucia)
25.2
44
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Flag_of_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines.svg/22px-Flag_of_Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines.svg.png Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines)
22.9
25
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Flag_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago.svg/22px-Flag_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago.svg.png Trinidad and Tobago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad_and_Tobago)
35.2
472
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Flag_of_the_Turks_and_Caicos_Islands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_Turks_and_Caicos_Islands.svg.png Turks and Caicos Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands)
8.7
3
Americas
Caribbean


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands.svg/22px-Flag_of_the_United_States_Virgin_Islands.svg.png U.S. Virgin Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Virgin_Islands)
39.2
43
Americas
Caribbean

centrehice
07-08-2013, 07:53 PM
Half of the Jamaican murder figure each year are policemen. The most dangerous profession in the World, a Policeman in Jamaica.

tpeichel
07-08-2013, 10:28 PM
The latest from Mexico. (I know racist.)

Running for public office in Mexico has long been perilous, with threats, assaults and sometimes outright killings by criminal gangs, political rivals and other opponents.

But this season is one of the worst in recent years, some experts say, with at least six candidates killed since February and another wounded in an attack that left her husband and an assistant dead. Party and campaign officials have also been assaulted, their family members targeted and sometimes killed as well.

As nearly half of Mexico’s states prepare to hold local elections on Sunday, the outbreak of violence has proved an embarrassment for the new government of President Enrique Peña Nieto, who has promised to control violence and has sought to portray the country as on the mend from wanton killings.

While the Peña Nieto administration promised to take steps to protect voters, opposition leaders have called on the president to put the army in the streets in some states to ensure peaceful voting proceedings, a common practice here.

“We are in the midst of the most violent elections in our history,” said José María Martínez, a member of a conservative-leaning opposition party and president of the special electoral commission of the Senate. “This is not the country that any Mexican deserves.” {snip}
The motives for many of these attacks, from which no major party has been spared, remain unclear. Local investigations of crimes, even killings, are notoriously haphazard and thin.
{snip} Last month, Nicolás Estrada Merino, leader of a state branch of the leftist Party of the Democratic Revolution, was found shot to death in a sugarcane field in the southern state of Oaxaca. Isaac López Rojas, a candidate for deputy mayor from the small, leftist Cardenista Party in the coastal state of Veracruz, was kidnapped and killed, also in June. A few days earlier, in the border state of Chihuahua, a mayoral candidate from the governing Institutional Revolutionary Party, Jaime Orozco Madrigal, was found dead after being forcefully taken from his house.
Newspapers have reported a number of candidates dropping their campaigns out of fear, and news channels have featured interviews with bloodied and bruised party members speaking after unexplained attacks.

{snip}

Zimbow
08-01-2013, 06:50 PM
Immigration activists arrested at Capitol <br />
Dozens of immigration-rights activists were arrested outside the Capitol on Thursday in a civil-disobedience action they said marked an escalation in...

tpeichel
08-01-2013, 08:43 PM
Deport them.

Wickabee
08-02-2013, 01:41 AM
The latest from Mexico. (I know racist.)

Running for public office in Mexico has long been perilous, with threats, assaults and sometimes outright killings by criminal gangs, political rivals and other opponents.

But this season is one of the worst in recent years, some experts say, with at least six candidates killed since February and another wounded in an attack that left her husband and an assistant dead. Party and campaign officials have also been assaulted, their family members targeted and sometimes killed as well.

As nearly half of Mexico’s states prepare to hold local elections on Sunday, the outbreak of violence has proved an embarrassment for the new government of President Enrique Peña Nieto, who has promised to control violence and has sought to portray the country as on the mend from wanton killings.

While the Peña Nieto administration promised to take steps to protect voters, opposition leaders have called on the president to put the army in the streets in some states to ensure peaceful voting proceedings, a common practice here.

“We are in the midst of the most violent elections in our history,” said José María Martínez, a member of a conservative-leaning opposition party and president of the special electoral commission of the Senate. “This is not the country that any Mexican deserves.” {snip}
The motives for many of these attacks, from which no major party has been spared, remain unclear. Local investigations of crimes, even killings, are notoriously haphazard and thin.
{snip} Last month, Nicolás Estrada Merino, leader of a state branch of the leftist Party of the Democratic Revolution, was found shot to death in a sugarcane field in the southern state of Oaxaca. Isaac López Rojas, a candidate for deputy mayor from the small, leftist Cardenista Party in the coastal state of Veracruz, was kidnapped and killed, also in June. A few days earlier, in the border state of Chihuahua, a mayoral candidate from the governing Institutional Revolutionary Party, Jaime Orozco Madrigal, was found dead after being forcefully taken from his house.
Newspapers have reported a number of candidates dropping their campaigns out of fear, and news channels have featured interviews with bloodied and bruised party members speaking after unexplained attacks.

{snip}

It's only racist if you wrote it to post in here...


Got a link?

tpeichel
08-02-2013, 11:33 AM
Do you really think I'd spend the time to make all of that up?

Wickabee
08-02-2013, 12:04 PM
Do you really think I'd spend the time to make all of that up?
No, but without something to back it up the possibility exists. You also could have taken it from anywhere that has any bias. I'm not being accusatory so there no need to get defensive.

tpeichel
08-02-2013, 12:20 PM
Not sure how you expected me to take 'show proof or you're racist'...If you just copy some of the text into google, I am pretty sure you will find it.

Wickabee
08-02-2013, 12:45 PM
Not sure how you expected me to take 'show proof or you're racist'...If you just copy some of the text into google, I am pretty sure you will find it.

That's not what I said. That's just what you decided to read. Again, no need to be defensive just because you have preconceived ideas about me. Relax, have a drink and calm the crap down.

All you had to do was this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/world/americas/mexicos-election-violence-is-said-to-be-worst-in-years.html?_r=0

How lazy are you?

tpeichel
08-02-2013, 12:53 PM
Why are you badgering me when it was so simple to verify yourself? You are correct about me using a biased source though.

shrewsbury
08-02-2013, 01:31 PM
if you copy and paste you HAVE TO put the link, there are copyright laws.

mrveggieman
08-02-2013, 01:55 PM
if you copy and paste you HAVE TO put the link, there are copyright laws.

Didn't know that. You learn something new on P&R everyday. :thumb:

Wickabee
08-02-2013, 02:16 PM
Why are you badgering me when it was so simple to verify yourself? You are correct about me using a biased source though.


if you copy and paste you HAVE TO put the link, there are copyright laws.

Thank you and goodnight.

I'll also say, you've been here for how long and you're confused someone is asking you to link to a story? Really?

tpeichel
08-04-2013, 11:13 AM
More uncivilized, third-world behavior from black people. Blacks in the U.K. don't have the equalitarian apologists pointing at slavery to excuse the behavior like here in the U.S.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html
The official figures, which examine the ethnicity of those accused of violent offences in London, suggest the majority of men held responsible by police for gun crimes, robberies and street crimes are black.


Black men are also disproportionately the victims of violent crime in the capital.

The statistics, released by the Metropolitan Police, permit an informed debate on a sensitive subject for the first time.

One prominent black politician said that the black community needed to face up to major challenges.

Shaun Bailey, a Tory election candidate in London and a charity worker, said: “The black community has to look at itself and say that, at the end of the day, these figures suggest we are heavily – not casually – involved in violent crime. We are also involved in crime against ourselves – and we regularly attack each other.”


The data provide a breakdown of the ethnicity of the 18,091 men and boys who police took action against for a range of violent and sexual offences in London in 2009-10.

They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property.

Just over 12 per cent of London’s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics.

tpeichel
08-04-2013, 11:27 AM
And another instance of blacks ganging up on a white in the USA.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70tZDW2AqY