PDA

View Full Version : very interesting event



shrewsbury
04-02-2014, 09:27 AM
I was at work when I seen a work order come through to install internet at my old house, so to everyone's surprise I took it(I am usually in the headend)
I sold the house to a nice couple so I just wanted to see the old house, how they liked it, and how they were doing.
The husband is a preacher, and after I got them all up and working he asked me my religious stance.
so me being me, I said I am Christian but not in the traditional sense. He asked me what I meant. I told him I did not want to be disrespectful to his beliefs, and he said the same thing to me, so I explained my views on the old and new testament, I thought he was going to pass out.
I said I believed it contained the words of God (Jesus) but was also influenced by the men who wrote them. I shared my views on the gender bias that is apparent and the fact that many writings in the NT did not reflect what Jesus taught when He was on earth. I also mentioned the fact that the bible was put together by men and there was 3 different versions before the "real" one was picked. I also mentioned the flaws in Genesis.
He said Jesus approached Paul and Paul's writings were legit, and went on to say if he thought the bible was not the infallible word of God he would not be a preacher. He also said the Genesis quote of being made in OUR image was referring to the trinity. He also said the church didn't make the bible but rather put the "real" stuff all together. I mentioned that the early Christians did not have the Bible and used other materials not included in the Bible, he had nothing to say about that.

I have to go to work so I will continue this later.

centrehice
04-02-2014, 11:03 AM
Jesus didn't approach Paul, that is where he is wrong. When Jesus was alive, Paul was against his teachings. It was not until Jesus had passed that Paul picked up the torch. He did so because of his ability to communicate in 5 different languages.

James the just, brother of Jesus was instructed by Jesus to help only Jews in this quest, (not Gentiles), and nobody else was given this request. The pat story of Jesus and Paul being tight is a lie.

Sheesh, pretty bad when a preacher has to have this explained by an atheist.

Wickabee
04-02-2014, 11:15 AM
"Our" can also refer to several beings who aren't the same person...

habsheaven
04-02-2014, 11:25 AM
I was at work when I seen a work order come through to install internet at my old house, so to everyone's surprise I took it(I am usually in the headend)
I sold the house to a nice couple so I just wanted to see the old house, how they liked it, and how they were doing.
The husband is a preacher, and after I got them all up and working he asked me my religious stance.
so me being me, I said I am Christian but not in the traditional sense. He asked me what I meant. I told him I did not want to be disrespectful to his beliefs, and he said the same thing to me, so I explained my views on the old and new testament, I thought he was going to pass out.
I said I believed it contained the words of God (Jesus) but was also influenced by the men who wrote them. I shared my views on the gender bias that is apparent and the fact that many writings in the NT did not reflect what Jesus taught when He was on earth. I also mentioned the fact that the bible was put together by men and there was 3 different versions before the "real" one was picked. I also mentioned the flaws in Genesis.
He said Jesus approached Paul and Paul's writings were legit, and went on to say if he thought the bible was not the infallible word of God he would not be a preacher. He also said the Genesis quote of being made in OUR image was referring to the trinity. He also said the church didn't make the bible but rather put the "real" stuff all together. I mentioned that the early Christians did not have the Bible and used other materials not included in the Bible, he had nothing to say about that.

I have to go to work so I will continue this later.

From what you wrote here, it sounds like he did not address most of your points.

centrehice
04-02-2014, 11:39 AM
He didn't address any of Shrew's points, which are much more valid and explainable than what he says. Christian nut jobs have nothing to say when you tell them that the Apostles with the exception of 2 all died and were buried as Jews. They simply cover their ears and chant. La, la, la, la, la, la.

shrewsbury
04-02-2014, 12:32 PM
crazy busy at work, but here is some more of the conversation.

I also said I do not believe god is a specific gender, and that if god was, it would make more sense to be a female, for a male cannot give birth. I pointed out how males wrote the bible and how males were dominant in those times and females were second class citizens. That what better excuse to show how males are more important than saying god is a male and created humans in HIS image.
He asked me if I thought Jesus was male, I said yes, but that if Jesus were female no one would listen, and even Jesus used feminine qualities to describe himself. I pointed out that God says God does stuff in a certain way because us humans are a certain way, thus the crazy laws of Moses, that even Jesus says were made because of the harden hearts of males.
Jesus came because God knew we would always fail at listening to a God from above, so God found a way to make God on a human level so humans could understand. The proof is in the OT that shows time after time, leader after leader failed to follow God, because God seemed so far removed from us, Jesus closed this gap. The preacher seemed to be in a mix of total disbelief and maybe thought I was insane. He told me that God was male and this is why Jesus was male.

I was also asked why I think I would get into heaven and what i would say to God when God asked why I deserved it. I responded that God knows me and I would not need to give a reason and threw in the fact that Jews don't believe in heaven, but yet have the same God and even Jesus talked about how some of the OT guys were in heaven. He told me the only reason anyone gets into heaven was by the grace of God, that all of us fail on earth, so no good work takes us to heaven.
I said that I believe God is inward and not outward, that I need to quite my human side and can perhaps be closer to God this way, so my actions are directly related to god, so my work is Gods work, in a sense.

There is much more, this went on for over an hour and ended by him giving me a book to read and wants to have lunch sometime to discuss things further.

i will write more details later, I need to actually work today, I have a huge project coming up and need to get ready for it.

boba
04-02-2014, 01:11 PM
Jesus didn't approach Paul, that is where he is wrong. When Jesus was alive, Paul was against his teachings. It was not until Jesus had passed that Paul picked up the torch. He did so because of his ability to communicate in 5 different languages.

James the just, brother of Jesus was instructed by Jesus to help only Jews in this quest, (not Gentiles), and nobody else was given this request. The pat story of Jesus and Paul being tight is a lie.

Sheesh, pretty bad when a preacher has to have this explained by an atheist.

Acts 9

mrveggieman
04-02-2014, 02:03 PM
Paul never saw Jesus alive and in the flesh. All of his writings are hersay.

centrehice
04-02-2014, 02:43 PM
Acts 9

I am talking accurate history of the time, not biblical nonsense with 900 year old humans. You need to at some point become reasonable and stop putting a work of fiction before my face with the belief that I will blindly accept it.

Paul scorned Jesus according Jewish history and according to Josephus the only true keeper of history of the time. Paul saw an opportunity at social hierarchy via this new cult and he pounced on it. If Paul and jesus were so together, then why did Jesus entrust his teachings only to his brother James the Just, and only for Jews? Also confirmed as true history, NOT from the bible.

Paul saw a business, power, and wealth opportunity with the quasi-cult status and made his own personal decision to provide lesson from the dead Jesus to Gentiles, not because of any holy edict, but because he could.

Paul also professed while alive that he could and would also ascend into heaven like Jesus alleged to have done, once again recorded factual history, and not in the bible. Paul like jesus did not ascend anywhere, but died a man.

centrehice
04-02-2014, 02:45 PM
Paul never saw Jesus alive and in the flesh. All of his writings are hersay.



Exactly - They knew not of each other, from actual, factual history.

shrewsbury
04-02-2014, 02:53 PM
to Josephus the only true keeper of history of the time

to be fair, there is a really good chance his writings have been altered to reflect those that were transcribing and copying them.

boba
04-02-2014, 05:29 PM
I am talking accurate history of the time, not biblical nonsense with 900 year old humans. You need to at some point become reasonable and stop putting a work of fiction before my face with the belief that I will blindly accept it.

Paul scorned Jesus according Jewish history and according to Josephus the only true keeper of history of the time. Paul saw an opportunity at social hierarchy via this new cult and he pounced on it. If Paul and jesus were so together, then why did Jesus entrust his teachings only to his brother James the Just, and only for Jews? Also confirmed as true history, NOT from the bible.

Paul saw a business, power, and wealth opportunity with the quasi-cult status and made his own personal decision to provide lesson from the dead Jesus to Gentiles, not because of any holy edict, but because he could.

Paul also professed while alive that he could and would also ascend into heaven like Jesus alleged to have done, once again recorded factual history, and not in the bible. Paul like jesus did not ascend anywhere, but died a man.

Never said it was true. But I'm assuming this preacher believes what the bible says as truth.

shrewsbury
04-02-2014, 07:37 PM
Never said it was true. But I'm assuming this preacher believes what the bible says as truth.

as the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But he did say it was not meant as a scientific explanation. I forgot to ask him how old he thought the earth was.

centrehice
04-02-2014, 07:50 PM
Most christians that will not entertain anything from outside the bible are very narrow-minded. They simply shut themselves off to anything non-biblical. You can give them all the historical facts you want, and they just shut off their hearing.

I am so glad that I am endowed with common sense.