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mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 01:28 PM
I was talking to a muslim guy that I know a while back and he was telling me that some people were created for the hellfire. People such as Hitler, OBL, Jeffrey Dahmer etc. People like that who do nothing but cause hell on earth who were created to do nothing but keep the hellfire going in the afterlife. What do you think about that?

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 01:32 PM
My first thought would be; WHO created them?

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 02:19 PM
My first thought would be; WHO created them?

God. Where are going with this Habs?

sanfran22
06-03-2014, 02:21 PM
God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. So I would say no one was created specifically for that purpose. It brings the whole free will and choice into play.

Wickabee
06-03-2014, 02:22 PM
Hell makes no sense. God didn't torture the sinners of Noah's day, he simply destroyed them. He didn't torture Sodom and Gomorrah, he destroyed them.

It makes no sense he would have people tortured for eternity.

sanfran22
06-03-2014, 02:24 PM
Hell makes no sense. God didn't torture the sinners of Noah's day, he simply destroyed them. He didn't torture Sodom and Gomorrah, he destroyed them.

It makes no sense he would have people tortured for eternity.

He doesn't have anyone tortured..... It's your choice to live with, or apart from Him.

shrewsbury
06-03-2014, 02:27 PM
and unless you are Jewish, the Old Covenant is fulfilled, what happened to those people is not the same fate for those who came after.

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 02:38 PM
God. Where are going with this Habs?

Veggie, so this is implying that God created OBL to allow him to kill 3,000 people so that he could populate Hell?

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 02:47 PM
Veggie, so this is implying that God created OBL to allow him to kill 3,000 people so that he could populate Hell?

I am not saying he did or did I was just giving you the POV of a guy that I was talking too. It was an interesting point but to be honest I can't say weather God did or did not. Prehaps you would like to have a personal conversation with him. He knows way more of the situation that I do.

shrewsbury
06-03-2014, 02:56 PM
Veggie, so this is implying that God created OBL to allow him to kill 3,000 people so that he could populate Hell?

do you think his parents did?

God doesn't create everyone, only needed to create first life and all things came from that.

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 03:20 PM
I am not saying he did or did I was just giving you the POV of a guy that I was talking too. It was an interesting point but to be honest I can't say weather God did or did not. Prehaps you would like to have a personal conversation with him. He knows way more of the situation that I do.

I do not want to have a personal conversation with anyone who believes God interacts with humans. It would prove quite pointless.

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 03:22 PM
do you think his parents did?

God doesn't create everyone, only needed to create first life and all things came from that.

Yes, I am thinking it was probably his parents. Most definitely his mother. I think veggie's friend is implying that God allowed these evil people to be created so there would be someone to keep the fires stoked.

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 03:23 PM
Regarding Jay's last post. I just had a thought. Anyone have an illustrated Bible handy? Do Adam and Eve have bellybuttons in the picture?

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 03:25 PM
I do not want to have a personal conversation with anyone who believes God interacts with humans. It would prove quite pointless.


No I wasn't referring to the muslim guy but I was suggesting that you have a personal conversation with God about why he may or may not have created people for the hellfire.

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 03:27 PM
Yes, I am thinking it was probably his parents. Most definitely his mother. I think veggie's friend is implying that God allowed these evil people to be created so there would be someone to keep the fires stoked.

He wasn't implying it he flat out said that is why God greated such monsters.

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 03:29 PM
Here is where I am thinking my man gets his reasoning from:

http://ahmadjibril.com/students/hellfire.html

FUEL OF HELL FIRE:
There is always something that is needed to keep the
fire going. The fire is destructive in its nature, so it needs to consume
something to keep itself going. The fuel of the Hell-fire will be Kuffaar as
Allah (subhanu wa ta'ala) says: "… then fear the Fire [hell] whose fuel is men
and stones, prepared for the disbelievers" (2:24)
The Kuffaar, their idols
and the stones will keep fire going. The fire will consume the skin and flesh of
its inhabitants, but with the Will of Allah, their skin and flesh will reappear
and the process will be repeated again and again!

gsj68
06-03-2014, 03:45 PM
Here is where I am thinking my man gets his reasoning from:

http://ahmadjibril.com/students/hellfire.html

FUEL OF HELL FIRE:
There is always something that is needed to keep the
fire going. The fire is destructive in its nature, so it needs to consume
something to keep itself going. The fuel of the Hell-fire will be Kuffaar as
Allah (subhanu wa ta'ala) says: "… then fear the Fire [hell] whose fuel is men
and stones, prepared for the disbelievers" (2:24)
The Kuffaar, their idols
and the stones will keep fire going. The fire will consume the skin and flesh of
its inhabitants, but with the Will of Allah, their skin and flesh will reappear
and the process will be repeated again and again!

so after i die i will have skin and flesh? pretty sure my skin,ears,eyes and taste buds get buried when i die

what good is a bunch of virgins when they just buried your willy?

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 03:46 PM
No I wasn't referring to the muslim guy but I was suggesting that you have a personal conversation with God about why he may or may not have created people for the hellfire.

Why in the world would you suggest such nonsense?

Here, I will tell you a little story. I once had a conversation with God. After repeatedly questioning his actions and getting NO ANSWERS. I told him where to go, and haven't seen hide or hair of him since.

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 04:06 PM
Why in the world would you suggest such nonsense?

Here, I will tell you a little story. I once had a conversation with God. After repeatedly questioning his actions and getting NO ANSWERS. I told him where to go, and haven't seen hide or hair of him since.

Mabey he didn't respond because the way you came at him. God does not owe you or us for that matter anything nor is he required to explain or justify his actions to us.

shrewsbury
06-03-2014, 04:19 PM
habs, I would bet they do. also, did you and God have this conversation in line at the grocery store? Just curious where to find god.

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 04:20 PM
Mabey he didn't respond because the way you came at him. God does not owe you or us for that matter anything nor is he required to explain or justify his actions to us.

Or just maybe he didn't respond because he doesn't exist. And if he doesn't owe us anything what makes you think he would explain Dahmer and OBL to me?


Let me ask you this, since you have such a good relationship with him; what does he tell you about anything?

mrveggieman
06-03-2014, 04:51 PM
Or just maybe he didn't respond because he doesn't exist. And if he doesn't owe us anything what makes you think he would explain Dahmer and OBL to me?


Let me ask you this, since you have such a good relationship with him; what does he tell you about anything?

He is showing me the way to be a better man for my family and community.

Star_Cards
06-03-2014, 04:53 PM
If someone believed in fate it would seem reasonable that evil people were created to interact with the rest of the population.

shrewsbury
06-03-2014, 05:33 PM
or that the devil rules the earth, hmm, didn't we learn that from Jesus?

habsheaven
06-03-2014, 07:05 PM
He is showing me the way to be a better man for my family and community.

No, that's a cop out. What does he SAY to you?

Wickabee
06-03-2014, 07:57 PM
No, that's a cop out. What does he SAY to you?

Why does he need to say something?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 09:55 AM
No, that's a cop out. What does he SAY to you?

God does not owe me anything.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 10:04 AM
God does not owe me anything.

Who said he owed you anything? You continually tell me to ask God questions that you can't answer. You tell me he is showing you the way. How is he showing you the way? One would assume he is showing you the way by speaking to you, since you continually tell me to speak to him.

Why is logic such a hard thing for you to grasp?

GroundSupport
06-04-2014, 10:07 AM
He is showing me the way to be a better man for my family and community.

Bingo. +1

What's so hard to GRASP about something so easy to understand?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 10:11 AM
Who said he owed you anything? You continually tell me to ask God questions that you can't answer. You tell me he is showing you the way. How is he showing you the way? One would assume he is showing you the way by speaking to you, since you continually tell me to speak to him.

Why is logic such a hard thing for you to grasp?

Exactly. I am not God so if you have a question for him why are you directing it to me. That's just like me asking someone on here a question about your childhood.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 10:23 AM
Exactly. I am not God so if you have a question for him why are you directing it to me. That's just like me asking someone on here a question about your childhood.

Are you going to answer the question or continue to deflect?

How is God "showing you the way"?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 11:41 AM
Are you going to answer the question or continue to deflect?

How is God "showing you the way"?


Your answer is in post #22. If you refuse to accept it then move on to your next line of questioning.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 12:05 PM
Your answer is in post #22. If you refuse to accept it then move on to your next line of questioning.

You can't be serious. This question is in response to post #22. I am asking you HOW. How would post #22 explain or answer that?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 12:20 PM
You can't be serious. This question is in response to post #22. I am asking you HOW. How would post #22 explain or answer that?


Again if you seek and desire anything from God you should go to him directly and cut out any middlemen.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 12:58 PM
Again if you seek and desire anything from God you should go to him directly and cut out any middlemen.

I am seeking an answer from YOU, about how GOD showed YOU the way. The ONLY one that can answer that question is YOU. Why will YOU not answer it?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 01:01 PM
I am seeking an answer from YOU, about how GOD showed YOU the way. The ONLY one that can answer that question is YOU. Why will YOU not answer it?

I told you about what God does for me. If you don't want to accept it that's on you.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 01:04 PM
I told you about what God does for me. If you don't want to accept it that's on you.

I'm not asking WHAT he does for YOU. I have been asking HOW he does it for you.

If you ask me what time it is, and I tell you that you're on Main Street. How can that possibly answer the question asked?

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 01:10 PM
I'm not asking WHAT he does for YOU. I have been asking HOW he does it for you.

If you ask me what time it is, and I tell you that you're on Main Street. How can that possibly answer the question asked?

I told you and you don't accept the answer and want to continue to go around in circles that is fine with me. I'll be here to 4:30. However if you want to keep dancing with me I'm going to insist that you buy me dinner.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 01:22 PM
I told you and you don't accept the answer and want to continue to go around in circles that is fine with me. I'll be here to 4:30. However if you want to keep dancing with me I'm going to insist that you buy me dinner.

YOU didn't tell me anything.

I asked HOW, you reply with WHAT. Do YOU understand the word WHO? One last question, WHO are YOU trying to kid here? Stop PREACHING if you can't back it up. It's an embarrassment to the real Christians on here.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 01:50 PM
YOU didn't tell me anything.

I asked HOW, you reply with WHAT. Do YOU understand the word WHO? One last question, WHO are YOU trying to kid here? Stop PREACHING if you can't back it up. It's an embarrassment to the real Christians on here.

You talk a lot about other people being embarrassed.
You also talk a lot about others projecting themselves.

...I'll show myself out.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 02:01 PM
You talk a lot about other people being embarrassed.
You also talk a lot about others projecting themselves.

...I'll show myself out.

Is this a trolling post, or do you think like veggie when it comes to the 5 W's?

Please do.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 02:39 PM
Is this a trolling post, or do you think like veggie when it comes to the 5 W's?

Please do.

It was an observation. You're not important enough to troll.

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 04:13 PM
wick, are you trolling habs?

QUIT!!! (he has a big enough head already!!)

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 04:19 PM
If he knew what trolling actually was, he wouldn't bother accusing me of it.

habsheaven
06-04-2014, 04:32 PM
If he knew what trolling actually was, he wouldn't bother accusing me of it.

Care to explain what trolling is then, because I am not sure how your post added to the discussion? If not you, maybe Jay would like to explain it.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 05:12 PM
Care to explain what trolling is then, because I am not sure how your post added to the discussion? If not you, maybe Jay would like to explain it.

Go find a video on YouTube. I'm sure it'll open worlds for you.

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 05:15 PM
according to our rules (SCF)


Trolling is considered making comments in someone’s thread in provocation to create emotional distress towards other people or picking a fight.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 05:17 PM
Funny. Nothing about making simple observations in there.

Does it say anything about a maximum hat size?