PDA

View Full Version : Seattle raises it's minimum wage to $15 per hour (by 2021)



37jetson
06-03-2014, 09:09 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/02/news/economy/seattle-minimum-wage/

What do you all think about this move? I cannot wait to hear that self absorbed whiny Starbucks CEO talk about how much this will cost his business.

Minimum wage is probably due for a small adjustment, but $15.00 by 2021 seems excessive.

andrewhoya
06-03-2014, 09:44 PM
It amazes me how politicians know absolutely nothing about basic economics. Not only is $15 overly excessive, all it will do is raise prices for EVERYTHING else, and they will be right back where they started.

JustAlex
06-03-2014, 10:23 PM
COMMUNISTS!

It's much better to keep the min. wage at $7.50 and have full time employees on federal benefits!

That's THE AMERICAN WAY!

God Bless this great country!

sanfran22
06-03-2014, 10:43 PM
It amazes me how politicians know absolutely nothing about basic economics. Not only is $15 overly excessive, all it will do is raise prices for EVERYTHING else, and they will be right back where they started.

And/or put more out of work....Minimum wage will never be enough. Raise it to 1000.00 and tell me what happens.

andrewhoya
06-03-2014, 11:11 PM
Exactly...small businesses, even if they do raise prices, won't be able to pay and will either lay off or close. Would you pay an additional $8.00 for a meal at your local diner?
And/or put more out of work....Minimum wage will never be enough. Raise it to 1000.00 and tell me what happens.

Wickabee
06-03-2014, 11:34 PM
Or maybe businesses will realize that making less profit than last year is still making a profit?

Nah, that'll never happen. Having leads to wanting, wanting leads to greed, greed leads to whining about minimum wage increases.

duane1969
06-04-2014, 01:49 AM
COMMUNISTS!

It's much better to keep the min. wage at $7.50 and have full time employees on federal benefits!

That's THE AMERICAN WAY!

God Bless this great country!

Yeah because it is WAY smarter to make everyone who currently earns more than minimum wage but less than $15 an hour a minimum wage worker. And everyone who currently makes $15.01 - $17.00 can go from making more than double minimum wage to barely above minimum wage. No Alex, they are not communist, they are socialist who are too stupid to look at history and see that you can not regulate wealth or social equality into existence.

gsj68
06-04-2014, 02:36 AM
i believe the true reason dems are pushing a wage increase is so they can collect more taxes

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 09:13 AM
if you are working a minimum wage job and raising a family you need help, I have no issue with that.
but raising minimum wage does not increase skills and will not help you land the job you need to raise a family.

the dems know squat about economics, which is obvious.

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 09:33 AM
if you are working a minimum wage job and raising a family you need help, I have no issue with that.
but raising minimum wage does not increase skills and will not help you land the job you need to raise a family.

the dems know squat about economics, which is obvious.

I agree but the republicans aren't exactly genuises either. Obviously something has to be done. People cannot afford to raise their kids and pay their bills making $7.50 an hour.

GroundSupport
06-04-2014, 10:00 AM
COMMUNISTS!

It's much better to keep the min. wage at $7.50 and have full time employees on federal benefits!

That's THE AMERICAN WAY!

God Bless this great country!


This is the post of the year. You made me laugh this morning.

And I thought you didn't believe in GOD? Why do you keep refering to someone who you don't beleive in? I'm starting to be skeptical of you.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 10:37 AM
I agree but the republicans aren't exactly genuises either. Obviously something has to be done. People cannot afford to raise their kids and pay their bills making $7.50 an hour.
But you know what? They STILL wont be able to pay bills at $15 an hour and feed their kids when food prices, gas prices, electricity prices, clothing price, etc ALL increase in price as well! Simple economics. Though I overall lean left, most democrats have zero knowledge of the economy, and it doesn't surprise me that a blue state was the first to do this.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 10:38 AM
i believe the true reason dems are pushing a wage increase is so they can collect more taxes
You could say that...but everything they spend money on will go up in price as well. It does them no good.

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 11:32 AM
But you know what? They STILL wont be able to pay bills at $15 an hour and feed their kids when food prices, gas prices, electricity prices, clothing price, etc ALL increase in price as well! Simple economics. Though I overall lean left, most democrats have zero knowledge of the economy, and it doesn't surprise me that a blue state was the first to do this.

I do understand economics and know that prices will increase because of this but what is your solution? Remain with the status quo? We see how well that works.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 11:36 AM
I do understand economics and know that prices will increase because of this but what is your solution? Remain with the status quo? We see how well that works.
There is no solution. It doesn't matter where you go, there will always be people on the bottom.

duane1969
06-04-2014, 12:22 PM
i believe the true reason dems are pushing a wage increase is so they can collect more taxes

Whoa! I almost added that to my post right above yours but didn't because I figured everyone would say I was crazy. I am fully convinced that this is just a backdoor way to try and increase tax revenues.


I agree but the republicans aren't exactly genuises either. Obviously something has to be done. People cannot afford to raise their kids and pay their bills making $7.50 an hour.

So someone that has kids and bills and has a minimum wage job should complain about minimum wage and demand the government force a minimum wage increase rather than strive to get a better paying job or education that will lead to a better paying job?

I repeat. You can not regulate/legislate social and economic equality. You either rise above or accept your position below. Crying and whining about someone else not doing something to make your life better is pathetic.

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 12:43 PM
Whoa! I almost added that to my post right above yours but didn't because I figured everyone would say I was crazy. I am fully convinced that this is just a backdoor way to try and increase tax revenues.



So someone that has kids and bills and has a minimum wage job should complain about minimum wage and demand the government force a minimum wage increase rather than strive to get a better paying job or education that will lead to a better paying job?

I repeat. You can not regulate/legislate social and economic equality. You either rise above or accept your position below. Crying and whining about someone else not doing something to make your life better is pathetic.

So you are ok with some guy who is desperate to take care of his family committing crimes to make ends meet since his job isn't cutting it? Survivial of the fittest huh man?

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 01:17 PM
The problem is too many jobs are minimum wage while inflation exceeds minimum wage increases.

I love the "They'll have to raise prices!" argument. If it goes down, will prices drop? Unlikely, but profits will soar.

duane1969
06-04-2014, 01:50 PM
So you are ok with some guy who is desperate to take care of his family committing crimes to make ends meet since his job isn't cutting it? Survivial of the fittest huh man?

So the only option is work a minimum wage job or commit a crime?


The problem is too many jobs are minimum wage while inflation exceeds minimum wage increases.

I love the "They'll have to raise prices!" argument. If it goes down, will prices drop? Unlikely, but profits will soar.

Because prices will not drop if wages goes down does not prove that prices will not go up if wages go up.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 02:04 PM
So you are ok with some guy who is desperate to take care of his family committing crimes to make ends meet since his job isn't cutting it? Survivial of the fittest huh man?
That is a slap in the face for everyone who makes minimum wage but is living their lives fine.

Joncamburn
06-04-2014, 02:35 PM
So you are ok with some guy who is desperate to take care of his family committing crimes to make ends meet since his job isn't cutting it? Survivial of the fittest huh man?

Why can't the person find a better job or take on a second job? Is it that crazy to ask a person to work hard to support their family without committing a crime?

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 02:40 PM
Yeah, because jobs are everywhere. Two not cutting it? Get a third! Fourth! Who needs rest or mental health? No one!

mrveggieman
06-04-2014, 03:01 PM
Yeah, because jobs are everywhere. Two not cutting it? Get a third! Fourth! Who needs rest or mental health? No one!

This. ^^^^^^

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:18 PM
But I thought the economy was awesome and everything is rosie?? What? We are becoming part-time nation? Wonder why that is??

gladdyontherise
06-04-2014, 03:24 PM
Newsflash: Minimum wage jobs weren't created to support a family.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Ask the people in charge.

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Newsflash: Minimum wage jobs weren't created to support a family.

Obviously only some of us get that lol.

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:27 PM
I'd rather change the people in charge. No need to ask them. We can see why.

ajcorleone
06-04-2014, 03:27 PM
Yeah but at least they have free health care.Oh wait a minute.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 03:28 PM
You want to change business owners? How?

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:28 PM
Yeah but at least they have free health care.Oh wait a minute.

Lol, yep, I'm paying 40% more for the same thing I had last year. Some of those "freebies" are on me apparently...

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:29 PM
You want to change business owners? How?

I want to change legislators and regulations....

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 03:32 PM
Yeah, because jobs are everywhere. Two not cutting it? Get a third! Fourth! Who needs rest or mental health? No one!
In many areas, there are, but they are seen as low standard jobs and many people do not want to be seen working them. I am a chef for a grocery chain, and many people in my department work 2 jobs, and get plenty of sleep and are raising their 4 kids perfectly well.

gsj68
06-04-2014, 03:40 PM
You want to change business owners? How?
become the business owner

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:41 PM
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/144019-results-seattles-minimum-wage-hike-deserve-big-fat-told/

Looks like it's already been tried? Not going so well it seems.

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 03:42 PM
become the business owner

This could work as well.lol.

ajcorleone
06-04-2014, 03:44 PM
Join the club
Lol, yep, I'm paying 40% more for the same thing I had last year. Some of those "freebies" are on me apparently...

gladdyontherise
06-04-2014, 03:45 PM
Obviously only some of us get that lol.
No kidding. Minimum wage jobs were meant for highschool/college students or those looking to make some side cash. Not for a person with 5 kids trying to support them off 1 job.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 03:45 PM
In many areas, there are, but they are seen as low standard jobs and many people do not want to be seen working them. I am a chef for a grocery chain, and many people in my department work 2 jobs, and get plenty of sleep and are raising their 4 kids perfectly well.

Excellent. Here 12 year olds are working at McDonald's to help pay household bills.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 03:49 PM
Excellent. Here 12 year olds are working at McDonald's to help pay household bills.
And I think that is great. Teaches them from a young age to work hard to get what you want.

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 04:09 PM
this thread is exactly why america is where it is now. people don't want to work, everything is someone elses fault or someone elses greed.
get a job, work your butt off, move up and on.

ajcorleone
06-04-2014, 04:10 PM
:basket::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::c heer2::cheer2::cheer2:
this thread is exactly why america is where it is now. people don't want to work, everything is someone elses fault or someone elses greed.
get a job, work your butt off, move up and on.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 04:18 PM
And I think that is great. Teaches them from a young age to work hard to get what you want.

You think it's great that 12 year olds are working after school jobs to pay bills their parents jobs can't?

Do you laugh during World Vision ads too?

Star_Cards
06-04-2014, 04:26 PM
It will be interesting how this effects businesses. When most people think about the minimum wage jobs they think about large corporations like McDonald's but can all of the other small businesses afford such a wage hike. I'd guess that places would either close or they'd have to raise their prices. It will also be interesting to see how other wages get altered. If someone makes $15 currently and had worked at a place for years to get to that place or had been promoted or learned a specific skill they will more than likely start clamoring for an increase as well rather than sitting at minimum wage again.

sanfran22
06-04-2014, 04:35 PM
It will be interesting how this effects businesses. When most people think about the minimum wage jobs they think about large corporations like McDonald's but can all of the other small businesses afford such a wage hike. I'd guess that places would either close or they'd have to raise their prices. It will also be interesting to see how other wages get altered. If someone makes $15 currently and had worked at a place for years to get to that place or had been promoted or learned a specific skill they will more than likely start clamoring for an increase as well rather than sitting at minimum wage again.

Yep. Everyone will demand a pay bump. Something not discussed by the supporters.

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 04:40 PM
You think it's great that 12 year olds are working after school jobs to pay bills their parents jobs can't?

Do you laugh during World Vision ads too?
I said it is great that it teaches them to work hard from a young age. I wish half the people in my area had half of the work ethic those middle school workers have.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 05:10 PM
I said it is great that it teaches them to work hard from a young age. I wish half the people in my area had half of the work ethic those middle school workers have.

Well, you need to put those children into poverty for that. Make sure their parents can't find work so they have to support their families at age 12. All for the sake of "good work ethic" which should be learned where everything else is learned; school.

And "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" simply isn't true anymore. The poorest people work the hardest to get nowhere. This isn't the '50s. Gumption isn't enough anymore. Stop saying it is.

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 05:12 PM
If someone makes $15 currently and had worked at a place for years to get to that place or had been promoted or learned a specific skill they will more than likely start clamoring for an increase as well rather than sitting at minimum wage again.

it will be bad


And "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" simply isn't true anymore.

yes it is, but you have to keep working, it may come in a year, 5 years, or a decade, but it will come.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 05:14 PM
yes it is, but you have to keep working, it may come in a year, 5 years, or a decade, but it will come.

No. It might. There's an okay chance. There is no guarantee. There are enough people working harder than you ever have making no money for it and getting nowhere. They've been doing it for years and just when it looks like they'll have at least a pension, they get let go, downsized, have their jobs sent overseas.

But it's not the business owners' fault. Nope, it's always someone else's.

shrewsbury
06-04-2014, 05:21 PM
and why did the jobs go over seas?

and I would love to see who has worked harder than myself and have not made what they need. I made it against the odds many times and have failed even more, but the rich are not my enemies. people who create a business owe me nothing and their profit is not my business. they have theirs and I have mine, good enough for me.
sure people may have bad luck, get ripped off, or other factors may be involved. but if you did all you could, as long as you can, make no excuses and blame no one else, you get all you can, you can not reasonably ask for anything else.

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 06:23 PM
Jobs went overseas to unregulated markets because it's cheaper to transport everything from Asia than pay an American a living wage.

And anyone with less than they need is dead. You have far, far more than most, but because it's yours, you think it's average. It's not. People work harder to pay their bills than you or I did to pay for our fancy computers.

37jetson
06-04-2014, 09:41 PM
It will be interesting how this effects businesses. When most people think about the minimum wage jobs they think about large corporations like McDonald's but can all of the other small businesses afford such a wage hike. I'd guess that places would either close or they'd have to raise their prices. It will also be interesting to see how other wages get altered. If someone makes $15 currently and had worked at a place for years to get to that place or had been promoted or learned a specific skill they will more than likely start clamoring for an increase as well rather than sitting at minimum wage again.

McDonald's and the other juggernauts will be just fine when the minimum wage goes to $15/hour. It will help them eliminate a ton of jobs in favor of automation. Small businesses that do not have the same capital will have a tough time competing.

Wick, not all businesses are evil and I will never let somebody tell me that hard work can't pay off. If life knocks you on your butt you should fall on your back because if you can look up you can get up (stolen from Les Brown). Malaise sucks!

andrewhoya
06-04-2014, 09:45 PM
Well, you need to put those children into poverty for that. Make sure their parents can't find work so they have to support their families at age 12. All for the sake of "good work ethic" which should be learned where everything else is learned; school.

And "Work hard and you'll be rewarded" simply isn't true anymore. The poorest people work the hardest to get nowhere. This isn't the '50s. Gumption isn't enough anymore. Stop saying it is.
So, you're saying that all of our nations schools are top notch and teach you everything you need to know for life?

Wickabee
06-04-2014, 10:31 PM
No, I'm saying they should be.

I'm also saying there are better ways to teach work ethic than employing 12 year olds in real jobs.

37jetson
06-04-2014, 11:43 PM
No, I'm saying they should be.

I'm also saying there are better ways to teach work ethic than employing 12 year olds in real jobs.

12 year olds need to just be kids....

gladdyontherise
06-05-2014, 12:00 AM
You lost me here hoya. 12 year olds have no business working any sort of 'real job' short of something like mowing a few peoples yards.

jdawg
06-05-2014, 12:25 AM
gives all the fast food joints just enough time to pack up shop and move outside city limits lol

andrewhoya
06-05-2014, 08:12 AM
You lost me here hoya. 12 year olds have no business working any sort of 'real job' short of something like mowing a few peoples yards.
Especially in inner city schools, which we were talking about, kids working while in school has been known to lower gang membership, etc. Now, I am not suggesting having them work 40 hour workweeks at all, but having a 12 year old work 1-2 days a week will only benefit them in the long run.

AUTaxMan
06-05-2014, 11:15 AM
There is no solution. It doesn't matter where you go, there will always be people on the bottom.

There is a solution. Educate yourself and don't have kids before you graduate from high school would be a good starting point.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 12:48 PM
There is a solution. Educate yourself and don't have kids before you graduate from high school would be a good starting point.

Fair enough. At the same time, what of the people who were in a position to have kids but have since fallen?

duane1969
06-05-2014, 12:55 PM
Yeah, because jobs are everywhere. Two not cutting it? Get a third! Fourth! Who needs rest or mental health? No one!

Excellent. Here 12 year olds are working at McDonald's to help pay household bills.

Wait a minute! Canada is perfect! They have a high minimum wage, health care for everyone, pay people to immigrate, everybody is happy, it is the land of peace and harmony. Guess you guys never heard of child labor laws. Here in the horrible USA we don't send babies into the work place to support their parents.


In many areas, there are, but they are seen as low standard jobs and many people do not want to be seen working them. I am a chef for a grocery chain, and many people in my department work 2 jobs, and get plenty of sleep and are raising their 4 kids perfectly well.

Funny thing is that many areas have jobs available that are not low standard jobs, they just simply require some education beyond high school and people refuse to even get a technical certification or associates degree to get those jobs. In my area they are constantly searching for tradesmen and people with skills like electricians, cabinet makers, utility workers, sewer plant operators, LPNs and CNAs and many of these jobs have been available for months, yet nobody wants to take even a few hours of classes to move up the wage scale. They would rather slave away in a minimum wage job and complain about someone else not making their life better.


It will be interesting how this effects businesses. When most people think about the minimum wage jobs they think about large corporations like McDonald's but can all of the other small businesses afford such a wage hike. I'd guess that places would either close or they'd have to raise their prices. It will also be interesting to see how other wages get altered. If someone makes $15 currently and had worked at a place for years to get to that place or had been promoted or learned a specific skill they will more than likely start clamoring for an increase as well rather than sitting at minimum wage again.

As a former business manager, my first move would be to eliminate non-essential workers.


Yep. Everyone will demand a pay bump. Something not discussed by the supporters.

But they won't get it. Everyone making above the new minimum wage will simply find themselves sitting much closer to being a minimum wage worker than before.


There is a solution. Educate yourself and don't have kids before you graduate from high school would be a good starting point.

You must be joking. That would require responsibility, maturity and self-reliance.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 01:01 PM
Wait a minute! Canada is perfect! They have a high minimum wage, health care for everyone, pay people to immigrate, everybody is happy, it is the land of peace and harmony. Guess you guys never heard of child labor laws. Here in the horrible USA we don't send babies into the work place to support their parents.
Where do Americans get this idea that we think Canada is perfect. We just think it's better, the way you think America is better. The thing is we're right, because Canadians are far less likely to look at the world and everything in it with a "if you ain't fer us, yer agin us!" attitude.

sanfran22
06-05-2014, 01:03 PM
Where do Americans get this idea that we think Canada is perfect. We just think it's better, the way you think America is better. The thing is we're right, because Canadians are far less likely to look at the world and everything in it with a "if you ain't fer us, yer agin us!" attitude.

Lol, you think you're right?

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 01:08 PM
Lol, you think you're right?

I know we are because we don't take "I like it better over here," to mean "OMG THIS IS PERFECT! YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS AND YOUR COUNTRY SUCKS!"

That's obviously how Duane takes it, and he's not the first.

deansayso
06-05-2014, 01:22 PM
I know we are because we don't take "I like it better over here," to mean "OMG THIS IS PERFECT! YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS AND YOUR COUNTRY SUCKS!"

That's obviously how Duane takes it, and he's not the first.

82239

Ha sorry but I had to.

shrewsbury
06-05-2014, 01:24 PM
That's obviously how Duane takes it, and he's not the first.

I don't think Duane thinks this way, he is just pointing out that other countries have flaws as well.
And I am quite certain there are just as many (percentage wise) of Canadians who think Canada is better, as there are Americans who think America is better.

It is not about being better, it is about stop trying to change things just because others are doing it and for some it works.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 01:34 PM
82239

Ha sorry but I had to.

Canadians make up something like 70% of the players in the Finals. That means that, while it will spend the winter down south, it will summer in Canada, like a good Canadian centigenarian should.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 01:35 PM
I don't think Duane thinks this way, he is just pointing out that other countries have flaws as well.
And I am quite certain there are just as many (percentage wise) of Canadians who think Canada is better, as there are Americans who think America is better.

It is not about being better, it is about stop trying to change things just because others are doing it and for some it works.

Until it works for you, then everyone should do it. See: capitalism 1950s.

gsj68
06-05-2014, 02:36 PM
Where do Americans get this idea that we think Canada is perfect. We just think it's better, the way you think America is better. The thing is we're right, because Canadians are far less likely to look at the world and everything in it with a "if you ain't fer us, yer agin us!" attitude.
canadian keep telling us,over and over again

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 03:03 PM
canadian keep telling us,over and over again

Better does not equal perfect. That was my whole point. You guys get touchy when other people are proud of anything.

duane1969
06-05-2014, 03:14 PM
Where do Americans get this idea that we think Canada is perfect. We just think it's better, the way you think America is better. The thing is we're right, because Canadians are far less likely to look at the world and everything in it with a "if you ain't fer us, yer agin us!" attitude.

I get it from you and habs constantly pointing out things you think is wrong with America and then offering up how Canada does it as the right/better way to do it. Examples: minimum wage, immigration, gun laws, voter fraud, number of political parties...blah, blah, blah


I don't think Duane thinks this way, he is just pointing out that other countries have flaws as well.
And I am quite certain there are just as many (percentage wise) of Canadians who think Canada is better, as there are Americans who think America is better.

It is not about being better, it is about stop trying to change things just because others are doing it and for some it works.

Thank you. You probably got it because your not Canadian...although you are living really close to the border, so you may be at risk LOL

Star_Cards
06-05-2014, 03:23 PM
McDonald's and the other juggernauts will be just fine when the minimum wage goes to $15/hour. It will help them eliminate a ton of jobs in favor of automation. Small businesses that do not have the same capital will have a tough time competing.

Wick, not all businesses are evil and I will never let somebody tell me that hard work can't pay off. If life knocks you on your butt you should fall on your back because if you can look up you can get up (stolen from Les Brown). Malaise sucks!

My point was that there are so many other businesses that aren't juggernauts. I'm curious where that leaves them. A lot of other local businesses and even franchises of national companies will more than likely have a hard time keeping all of their employees if they have to double their labor costs. It seems to me that such a hike would cause higher prices or fewer jobs or both. Now, that's not an over night hike, but even over the next six years that's about $1 per year increase to get to $15 an hour.

sanfran22
06-05-2014, 04:38 PM
Better does not equal perfect. That was my whole point. You guys get touchy when other people are proud of anything.

You can be proud, but be realistic. The American experiment was by far the best in history. We are definitely having issues now, but I'd argue it's because of destruction of the family, gov't that is constantly overstepping its bounds, and a lack of God and morals like we once had.

sanfran22
06-05-2014, 04:40 PM
My point was that there are so many other businesses that aren't juggernauts. I'm curious where that leaves them. A lot of other local businesses and even franchises of national companies will more than likely have a hard time keeping all of their employees if they have to double their labor costs. It seems to me that such a hike would cause higher prices or fewer jobs or both. Now, that's not an over night hike, but even over the next six years that's about $1 per year increase to get to $15 an hour.

I would say you are correct in that thinking. So all of those politicians that scream they hate big businesses, and "we're for the little guy", probably eliminated a lot of said small business or added to the unemployment/cost of living.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 05:53 PM
You can be proud, but be realistic. The American experiment was by far the best in history. We are definitely having issues now, but I'd argue it's because of destruction of the family, gov't that is constantly overstepping its bounds, and a lack of God and morals like we once had.

We did the same thing quieter and unarmed with health care.

37jetson
06-05-2014, 06:04 PM
My point was that there are so many other businesses that aren't juggernauts. I'm curious where that leaves them. A lot of other local businesses and even franchises of national companies will more than likely have a hard time keeping all of their employees if they have to double their labor costs. It seems to me that such a hike would cause higher prices or fewer jobs or both. Now, that's not an over night hike, but even over the next six years that's about $1 per year increase to get to $15 an hour.

We are on the same page wondering about the same thing. This could be very detrimental to the small businessman. We should care about that.

Wickabee
06-05-2014, 06:44 PM
I get it from you and habs constantly pointing out things you think is wrong with America and then offering up how Canada does it as the right/better way to do it. Examples: minimum wage, immigration, gun laws, voter fraud, number of political parties...blah, blah, blah



Thank you. You probably got it because your not Canadian...although you are living really close to the border, so you may be at risk LOL

I've never brought up Canadian minimum wage. At best I've brought up BC.

And I fail to see how this proves I think anything is perfect. Care to address what I said?

pwaldo
06-05-2014, 07:10 PM
i believe the true reason dems are pushing a wage increase is so they can collect more taxes

No they are pushing it because it is a win win issue. A genius move by them really.

If you push for it and it gets through then you become heroes to those who get the boost.
If you push for it and it doesn't go through the people who stopped it become a lifetime enemy to those who didn't get the money.

Most Americans are dumb and you can't explain the full effects of almost doubling the minimum wage in a quick sound bite that might make it onto the news so it becomes you looking either bad or good by voting against or for something that "helps the poor people".

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 12:39 AM
Funny thing is that many areas have jobs available that are not low standard jobs, they just simply require some education beyond high school and people refuse to even get a technical certification or associates degree to get those jobs. In my area they are constantly searching for tradesmen and people with skills like electricians, cabinet makers, utility workers, sewer plant operators, LPNs and CNAs and many of these jobs have been available for months, yet nobody wants to take even a few hours of classes to move up the wage scale. They would rather slave away in a minimum wage job and complain about someone else not making their life better.


Good point. Didn't even think of that, but my area is always searching for the same skills, too.

Wickabee
06-06-2014, 01:48 AM
Good point. Didn't even think of that, but my area is always searching for the same skills, too.

Right. And someone currently without the current education and experience (don't forget everyone wants experienced workers) can just go to school and get it.

Oh, wait, post-secondary is privatized so no, no they can't.

shrewsbury
06-06-2014, 09:12 AM
Right. And someone currently without the current education and experience (don't forget everyone wants experienced workers) can just go to school and get it.

Oh, wait, post-secondary is privatized so no, no they can't.

actually you can, but you have to be willing to. there are numerous loans, grants, and other wyas to help pay for school/training. there are community colleges and adult education centers.
we had three small kids, I worked fulltime as a painter, parttime as a cook, and went to school. it was a rough year.

it helped me land a job in the cable industry, I made $7.50 an hour to start. I busted my butt at work, learned everything possible and took advantage of any training they offered. now, nearly twenty years later I am the assistant manager and make great money with killer benefits. and went back to school 3 years ago.

after landing my job in the cable industry my wife went to school and got her RN.

sanfran22
06-06-2014, 11:38 AM
Right. And someone currently without the current education and experience (don't forget everyone wants experienced workers) can just go to school and get it.

Oh, wait, post-secondary is privatized so no, no they can't.

Post secondary is privatized?

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 12:20 PM
Right. And someone currently without the current education and experience (don't forget everyone wants experienced workers) can just go to school and get it.

Oh, wait, post-secondary is privatized so no, no they can't.
In my area, we have training/education opportunities that do not cost a thing until you land a better paying job...all it takes is willpower and a good work ethic and you will be on your way to better lives.

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 12:21 PM
actually you can, but you have to be willing to. there are numerous loans, grants, and other wyas to help pay for school/training. there are community colleges and adult education centers.
we had three small kids, I worked fulltime as a painter, parttime as a cook, and went to school. it was a rough year.

it helped me land a job in the cable industry, I made $7.50 an hour to start. I busted my butt at work, learned everything possible and took advantage of any training they offered. now, nearly twenty years later I am the assistant manager and make great money with killer benefits. and went back to school 3 years ago.

after landing my job in the cable industry my wife went to school and got her RN.
Perfect first hand experience. All it takes is willpower.

Wickabee
06-06-2014, 12:42 PM
Perfect first hand experience. All it takes is willpower.

Yes. All it takes is willpower...oh, and every advantage Jay had in life to that point.

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 01:04 PM
Jay, I am curious as to what advantages you had before going back to school that Wickabee is referring to.

Wickabee
06-06-2014, 01:55 PM
Jay, I am curious as to what advantages you had before going back to school that Wickabee is referring to.

If he grew up with two parents, he got a head start on a lot of people.

It just builds from there.

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 02:24 PM
If he grew up with two parents, he got a head start on a lot of people.

It just builds from there.
Wow. So, if you have two parents, that is automatically an advantage? What if they were abusive? What if they were never home for him, instead out doing drugs, etc? What if they wanted nothing to do with him? Sometimes having one parent can be better than having two. It all depends on the circumstances.

sanfran22
06-06-2014, 02:34 PM
If he grew up with two parents, he got a head start on a lot of people.

It just builds from there.

Go's back to the destruction of the country starts with the destruction of the family. The left knows that. It's why they act like they care. They try to make it semi-comfortable and acceptable.

Wickabee
06-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Wow. So, if you have two parents, that is automatically an advantage? What if they were abusive? What if they were never home for him, instead out doing drugs, etc? What if they wanted nothing to do with him? Sometimes having one parent can be better than having two. It all depends on the circumstances.

You have an advantage over the millions upon millions who didn't. If you can't even see that, we're done here. Obviously I was being glib, and I'm pretty sure you knew that.

shrewsbury
06-06-2014, 02:36 PM
my parents were divorced when I was about 8.
my first step dad beat me on Christmas day and that relationship lasted about 1 year.
next step dad was a drunk loser who did not work.
my mom then tried it by herself, she worked as a bartender and was never home.
we were poor and on welfare.
my mom remarried again and my life really went downhill as a teen, ending with some big trouble and not finishing school.

I do admit to having one advantage. from a very early age I practiced the martial arts and always stuck with it. at first to be tough and cool, but eventually the discipline turned to a good thing and I used it to my advantage ever since.

when my wife and i had our first kid, i worked as a painter and a cook and taught, we were poor and things had to change. I went back to school, got a decent real job, then my wife went back to school.

now the kids are all gone, I own 10 acres, a 2800+ square foot beautiful home, an inground swimming pool, a 4000 square foot barn, two nice cars, a brand new tractor with all the goodies and we both are back in school. I now pay more in taxes in a single year than I use to make in a few years of work.

andrewhoya
06-06-2014, 02:41 PM
You have an advantage over the millions upon millions who didn't. If you can't even see that, we're done here. Obviously I was being glib, and I'm pretty sure you knew that.
Not sure what glib means. All I am saying is that having a nuclear family is not always an advantage.

Wickabee
06-06-2014, 04:42 PM
Not sure what glib means. All I am saying is that having a nuclear family is not always an advantage.

Yes, I understand there are always exceptions. I understood that before too. That argument actually brings the conversation backwards, not forward.

Did he go to a decent elementary school? High school? Did he grow up in a low crime area? There's a lot of advantages people take for granted. Yes there are exceptions, but that doesn't change anything. What you did was distractionary at beat. If you'd rather do that than have a real discussion, like I said, we're done here.

Glib = oversimplified, to put it in a glib manner.