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Zimbow
10-25-2014, 06:01 AM
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”

“You know, one of the things my husband says when people say ‘Well, what did you bring to Washington,’ he said, ‘Well, I brought arithmetic,’” Clinton said, which elicited loud laughs from the crowd.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/10/24/Hillary-Dont-Let-Anybody-Tell-You-That-Businesses-Create-Jobs

There is also a video of her speech on the link above. Unfortunately I cannot post it using this phone.

mrveggieman
10-25-2014, 10:35 AM
I really want to vomit the thought of voting in 2016. We will either be choosing from Hillary or whatever piece of garbage that the GOP puts out there.

shrewsbury
10-25-2014, 11:55 AM
Gore fuzzy math?

and how can she quote her husband, a lying, cheating, womanizing, piece of garbage?

gsj68
10-25-2014, 01:40 PM
straight up u.s.s.r. socialist right there

beachbum
10-25-2014, 02:00 PM
I really want to vomit the thought of voting in 2016. We will either be choosing from Hillary or whatever piece of garbage that the GOP puts out there.

The Dems always have Biden.

37jetson
10-25-2014, 08:23 PM
Appearing at a Boston rally for Democrat gubernatorial candidate Martha Coakley on Friday, Hillary Clinton told the crowd gathered at the Park Plaza Hotel not to listen to anybody who says that “businesses create jobs.”

“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs,” Clinton said.

“You know that old theory, ‘trickle-down economics,’” she continued. “That has been tried, that has failed. It has failed rather spectacularly.”

“You know, one of the things my husband says when people say ‘Well, what did you bring to Washington,’ he said, ‘Well, I brought arithmetic,’” Clinton said, which elicited loud laughs from the crowd.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/10/24/Hillary-Dont-Let-Anybody-Tell-You-That-Businesses-Create-Jobs

There is also a video of her speech on the link above. Unfortunately I cannot post it using this phone.

I for one hopes that she steps up her insane rhetoric so even the biggest government couch potato comes to the conclusion that they cannot vote for her.

habsheaven
10-25-2014, 08:49 PM
Insane rhetoric? She is speaking the truth. Corporations may do the hiring, but it is the consumers that create the need for the hiring. I look forward to welcoming her into the White House.

37jetson
10-26-2014, 09:58 AM
I for one hopes that she steps up her insane rhetoric so even the biggest government couch potato comes to the conclusion that they cannot vote for her.

What in the world are you talking about? It is not the government that develops, builds and markets the product. Your point about the consumers creating the need has nothing to do with the government. People are going to need toilet paper whether or not the government tells them they need toilet paper. Companies do a whole lot more than "doing the hiring".

Do people really think like you?

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 11:03 AM
What in the world are you talking about?

What are YOU talking about?

It is not the government that develops, builds and markets the product.

Where did I say the government did?

Your point about the consumers creating the need has nothing to do with the government.

Where did I say it did?

People are going to need toilet paper whether or not the government tells them they need toilet paper.

That's a valid point. So what? Who stated otherwise?

Companies do a whole lot more than "doing the hiring".

Yes, they do. But they only hire based on need. That need is created by consumer demands not based on extra cash in the company.

Do people really think like you?

The valid question is: do people really think like you? Does everyone just make up what they think the other person has stated and then argue against it?

Try making a little sense if you want to debate.

37jetson
10-26-2014, 11:45 AM
The valid question is: do people really think like you?

Yeah, they are called people with non-government jobs. It is sad that they have to defend ourselves against the "isms" (socialism, communism, etc.) of progressive politics.

When you said that you agreed with Hillary's statement you were saying that government does not develop, build and market product. Pretty clear here, eh?

Yes, the toilet paper comment was a bonus wipe. It was tongue in cheek commentary about Hillary's comment and anybody who believes the same way.

Your statement that consumer demands were not created by extra cash in the company truly makes no sense. Since the beginning of time there was trade between people (businesses) and this happened with out Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton inspired governments making it happen. I would love to hear more of how you reached this conclusion because I honestly cannot understand this thinking.

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 12:38 PM
Yeah, they are called people with non-government jobs. It is sad that they have to defend ourselves against the "isms" (socialism, communism, etc.) of progressive politics.

No government job here. And you don't have to defend yourself against any "isms". You are fabricating extremes so that your points might have some validity. They don't.

When you said that you agreed with Hillary's statement you were saying that government does not develop, build and market product. Pretty clear here, eh?

When I said I agreed with Hillary's statement, her statement ABOVE was that businesses do not create jobs. She never said anything about government. What am I missing? Clarify PLEASE!!!!

Yes, the toilet paper comment was a bonus wipe. It was tongue in cheek commentary about Hillary's comment and anybody who believes the same way.

Your statement that consumer demands were not created by extra cash in the company truly makes no sense. Since the beginning of time there was trade between people (businesses) and this happened with out Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton inspired governments making it happen. I would love to hear more of how you reached this conclusion because I honestly cannot understand this thinking.

That is not what I said. Can you not read. I said extra cash to companies does not create jobs, consumer demand creates jobs. You need to study up on the basic concept (it is very basic) of supply and demand.



And yes, it's clear you cannot understand this line of thinking. I am stating it clearly and it is going right over your head.

37jetson
10-26-2014, 01:17 PM
And yes, it's clear you cannot understand this line of thinking. I am stating it clearly and it is going right over your head.

Yes, I exhibit my points with extremes because the ilk of Obama and Clinton politics will never hit America with a feather when it comes to their win at all costs politics. They think that they personally are responsible for people having jobs despite Supply and Demand fundamentals, inspiration and hardwork of businesses, etc. If I misunderstood your supply and demand point then my bad, if you think (like Hillary) that government is the real source of jobs then we have a further conversation.

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 01:49 PM
Yes, I exhibit my points with extremes because the ilk of Obama and Clinton politics will never hit America with a feather when it comes to their win at all costs politics. They think that they personally are responsible for people having jobs despite Supply and Demand fundamentals, inspiration and hardwork of businesses, etc. If I misunderstood your supply and demand point then my bad, if you think (like Hillary) that government is the real source of jobs then we have a further conversation.

I do not think that government is the real source of jobs. Never said that in my life. I also still cannot find where Hillary said that in the OP's post. You are arguing against positions not being brought forth.

duane1969
10-26-2014, 07:34 PM
Insane rhetoric? She is speaking the truth. Corporations may do the hiring, but it is the consumers that create the need for the hiring. I look forward to welcoming her into the White House.

You missed the underlying message that she and the Democratic Socialist Party are trying to propagate. They are trying to create the belief that the government creates jobs, which we all know is not true. Do businesses "create" jobs? Yes and No. You are generally correct. The market creates the need, then the businesses create the positions (thus the jobs). Either way, that is not what Hilary was talking about.

shrewsbury
10-26-2014, 07:37 PM
her statement ABOVE was that businesses do not create jobs.

they supply them and some create them

a new product or service is the creation of someone and when they start a business to offer or sell they are creating jobs.

ebay created jobs, there were no ebay jobs before ebay.

google created jobs, no jobs at google inc before google.

facebook created jobs, no facebook jobs before someone created facebook,

duane1969
10-26-2014, 07:47 PM
they supply them and some create them

a new product or service is the creation of someone and when they start a business to offer or sell they are creating jobs.

ebay created jobs, there were no ebay jobs before ebay.

google created jobs, no jobs at google inc before google.

facebook created jobs, no facebook jobs before someone created facebook,

True enough. You essentially proved me wrong as well. I said the market creates the demand. The market demand didn't create those companies. You sir are correct.

37jetson
10-26-2014, 08:50 PM
I do not think that government is the real source of jobs. Never said that in my life. I also still cannot find where Hillary said that in the OP's post. You are arguing against positions not being brought forth.

I have little doubt that Obama believes the "you did not create that" down to his core being. I am a bit surprised that Hillary made such a dumb political statement to come even close to parroting the "you did not create that" theme.

37jetson
10-26-2014, 08:57 PM
they supply them and some create them

a new product or service is the creation of someone and when they start a business to offer or sell they are creating jobs.

ebay created jobs, there were no ebay jobs before ebay.

google created jobs, no jobs at google inc before google.

facebook created jobs, no facebook jobs before someone created facebook,

This was the mindset that I went from when I made my original comments in the thread. I guess I was being a homer for North American Industry and Ingenuity.

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 09:37 PM
You missed the underlying message that she and the Democratic Socialist Party are trying to propagate. They are trying to create the belief that the government creates jobs, which we all know is not true. Do businesses "create" jobs? Yes and No. You are generally correct. The market creates the need, then the businesses create the positions (thus the jobs). Either way, that is not what Hilary was talking about.

How are we ever going to have a discussion if you argue "what they think was being said" rather than what was actually said? Then you throw in the "socialist" rhetoric. You guys are all the same. Your arguments are so weak you have to resort to the playbook of the right wing. All her critics are arguing positions that aren't in this thread.

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 09:42 PM
they supply them and some create them

a new product or service is the creation of someone and when they start a business to offer or sell they are creating jobs.

ebay created jobs, there were no ebay jobs before ebay.

google created jobs, no jobs at google inc before google.

facebook created jobs, no facebook jobs before someone created facebook,

In order for any of those companies to grow they too need consumer demand. How's AOL doing?

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 09:43 PM
I have little doubt that Obama believes the "you did not create that" down to his core being. I am a bit surprised that Hillary made such a dumb political statement to come even close to parroting the "you did not create that" theme.

Of course you do. I wonder what else you believe about Obama? Nothing would surprise me.

habsheaven
10-26-2014, 09:46 PM
This was the mindset that I went from when I made my original comments in the thread. I guess I was being a homer for North American Industry and Ingenuity.

Again, as I said to Duane; coming into the discussion with your own mindset is one thing, distorting the position you are about to criticize is another. Can't have a meaningful discussion if you are going to continually move the goalposts of the discussion to suit your points.

ajcorleone
10-27-2014, 08:58 AM
A simple question and it is not meant in any negative way. Why do you welcome Hilary how dies it affect you as a Canadian?
Insane rhetoric? She is speaking the truth. Corporations may do the hiring, but it is the consumers that create the need for the hiring. I look forward to welcoming her into the White House.

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 09:32 AM
A simple question and it is not meant in any negative way. Why do you welcome Hilary how dies it affect you as a Canadian?

It doesn't really affect me as a Canadian. I just want to see how the dynamics change in the world with a woman at the helm. And I cannot think of a more qualified woman to do it.

duane1969
10-27-2014, 09:44 AM
How are we ever going to have a discussion if you argue "what they think was being said" rather than what was actually said? Then you throw in the "socialist" rhetoric. You guys are all the same. Your arguments are so weak you have to resort to the playbook of the right wing. All her critics are arguing positions that aren't in this thread.

Fair enough. Make sure you practice what you preach in future discussions.

To the point. Hilary is wrong. Businesses do "create" jobs. Society creates the demand for a service or product. Businesses create the jobs that provide that service or product.

ajcorleone
10-27-2014, 09:50 AM
Thanks for the answer. I believe there are women at the helm in other powerful positions to cure your curiousities til the election.
It doesn't really affect me as a Canadian. I just want to see how the dynamics change in the world with a woman at the helm. And I cannot think of a more qualified woman to do it.

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 10:05 AM
Fair enough. Make sure you practice what you preach in future discussions.

To the point. Hilary is wrong. Businesses do "create" jobs. Society creates the demand for a service or product. Businesses create the jobs that provide that service or product.

Yes, businesses do create jobs because consumer demand requires them too, not because they have extra cash sitting in their bank accounts as a result of lower taxes. In that respect, Hilary is right.

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the answer. I believe there are women at the helm in other powerful positions to cure your curiousities til the election.

None as powerful as the POTUS.

shrewsbury
10-27-2014, 11:39 AM
How's AOL doing?

social media and and ISP are two different things.

if the donut shop goes out of business it has nothing to do with the new auto parts store.

AOL was based on the technology of the times, it changed, they chose not to change, but they still are in business.

duane1969
10-27-2014, 12:04 PM
Yes, businesses do create jobs because consumer demand requires them too, not because they have extra cash sitting in their bank accounts as a result of lower taxes. In that respect, Hilary is right.

Then who creates jobs. You admit it isn't demand that creates the job, it just creates the need for a job. Who creates the jobs? You keep insisting that she is correct. Who creates the jobs?

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 12:32 PM
social media and and ISP are two different things.

if the donut shop goes out of business it has nothing to do with the new auto parts store.

AOL was based on the technology of the times, it changed, they chose not to change, but they still are in business.

My point was AOL isn't creating many jobs now because there is no demand for their product. I could have just as easily used KODAK. Using google and ebay as examples of companies creating jobs needs to be tempered with the technology changes that again create a consumer demand. I could just as easily point to companies that are killing jobs through technology advances.

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 12:33 PM
Then who creates jobs. You admit it isn't demand that creates the job, it just creates the need for a job. Who creates the jobs? You keep insisting that she is correct. Who creates the jobs?

Am I going to be accused of "dodging" this question even though you quoted my answer to it in your post?

gsj68
10-27-2014, 02:42 PM
It doesn't really affect me as a Canadian. I just want to see how the dynamics change in the world with a woman at the helm. And I cannot think of a more qualified woman to do it.
through out history there have been plenty of woman leaders,right now the most powerful person in europe is Angela Merkel

and i can come up with many more qualified then hillary,pretty much any female that started a local politician and worked their way up to house or senate

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 03:00 PM
through out history there have been plenty of woman leaders,right now the most powerful person in europe is Angela Merkel

and i can come up with many more qualified then hillary,pretty much any female that started a local politician and worked their way up to house or senate

Well I guess your definition of qualified is different than mine. I think holding a cabinet position in the government means a little more than stopping at the House or the Senate. (which she has also done).

It amazes me how people can let their personal feelings about individuals affect their thinking on generic issues.

ajcorleone
10-27-2014, 04:03 PM
True but some close. I said all along she would be next unless the skeletons come out to haunt her.
None as powerful as the POTUS.

shrewsbury
10-27-2014, 04:43 PM
habs, so are we debating consumer demand creates jobs and a business is the one who supplies the jobs?

are we arguing some companies that created this supply go out of business and other new ones start up?

the fact is, consumer demand is over a product or service someone "created" (for lack of better word)

the demand cannot be fulfilled without someone supplying them.

so we are pretty much arguing over the chicken or the egg.

most people, in America, are arguing jobs only exist because of the infrastructure the government supplies. but no government without taxes, no taxes without jobs, so my taxes created it, not the government.

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 07:37 PM
habs, so are we debating consumer demand creates jobs and a business is the one who supplies the jobs?

are we arguing some companies that created this supply go out of business and other new ones start up?

the fact is, consumer demand is over a product or service someone "created" (for lack of better word)

the demand cannot be fulfilled without someone supplying them.

so we are pretty much arguing over the chicken or the egg.

most people, in America, are arguing jobs only exist because of the infrastructure the government supplies. but no government without taxes, no taxes without jobs, so my taxes created it, not the government.

Yes, that is what it boils down to (pun intended). The point of what Hilary said though is that "trickle down" economics is neither the chicken or the egg. And no, I don't think MOST people are arguing that jobs only exist because of infrastructure. I think most poorly word an idea that, infrastructure is important and all the credit for jobs doesn't solely go to industry.

gsj68
10-27-2014, 08:12 PM
Well I guess your definition of qualified is different than mine. I think holding a cabinet position in the government means a little more than stopping at the House or the Senate. (which she has also done).

It amazes me how people can let their personal feelings about individuals affect their thinking on generic issues.
i give her a fail on those so why would i elect her to a higher position?
nothing personal just performance based

37jetson
10-27-2014, 09:00 PM
In order for any of those companies to grow they too need consumer demand. How's AOL doing? AOL was wildly successful for close to 20 years. Far from the failure that you are pointing them out to be. What exactly is your point with piling on AOL's recent business woes?

habsheaven
10-27-2014, 09:13 PM
AOL was wildly successful for close to 20 years. Far from the failure that you are pointing them out to be. What exactly is your point with piling on AOL's recent business woes?

So was KODAK. My point was that AOL just like Google and others only create jobs because of consumer demand.

37jetson
10-27-2014, 09:21 PM
So was KODAK. My point was that AOL just like Google and others only create jobs because of consumer demand.

Misread your post....

37jetson
10-27-2014, 09:29 PM
Well Hillary reeled her comments back in. The good thing about being a Leftist Politician is that the media will never hold you accountable for your statements.

“Our economy grows when businesses and entrepreneurs create good-paying jobs here in America and workers and families are empowered to build from the bottom up and the middle out — not when we hand out tax breaks for corporations that outsource jobs or stash their profits overseas,” she said Monday.

JustAlex
10-28-2014, 02:42 AM
You missed the underlying message that she and the Democratic Socialist Party are trying to propagate.
I just HAD to laugh at this.....Dems, socialists?

I WISH!

But let me just say that the Democratic Socialist Party are a million times better than the Republican Fascist Party.

shrewsbury
10-29-2014, 10:17 AM
infrastructure is important and all the credit for jobs doesn't solely go to industry.

infrastructure does not exist without taxes,taxes does not exist without jobs, so jobs create infrastructure, which creates more jobs.

a business in the medium for jobs, the industry is the medium for business.

so all the credit should go to the industry, not the government, using our tax dollars and manpower to build what we are paying for.

no industry = no business
no business = no jobs
no jobs = no taxes
no taxes = no government
no government = no infrastructure

so it is easy to see, the government and the infrastructure are the least inportant

habsheaven
10-29-2014, 10:49 AM
infrastructure does not exist without taxes,taxes does not exist without jobs, so jobs create infrastructure, which creates more jobs.

a business in the medium for jobs, the industry is the medium for business.

so all the credit should go to the industry, not the government, using our tax dollars and manpower to build what we are paying for.

no industry = no business
no business = no jobs
no jobs = no taxes
no taxes = no government
no government = no infrastructure

so it is easy to see, the government and the infrastructure are the least important

I don't know about you, but I pay property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes and any number of other "fees" regardless of whether or not I have a job.

duane1969
10-29-2014, 11:15 AM
I don't know about you, but I pay property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes and any number of other "fees" regardless of whether or not I have a job.

What do you pay them with? Fairy dust?

beachbum
10-29-2014, 12:01 PM
I don't know about you, but I pay property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes and any number of other "fees" regardless of whether or not I have a job.

Miniscule compared to income and payroll taxes.

habsheaven
10-29-2014, 12:15 PM
What do you pay them with? Fairy dust?

My inheritance. My point was that the government collects taxes from many sources besides payroll taxes.

Your trolling is most amusing, especially when I shut you up because you realize how wrong you are.

habsheaven
10-29-2014, 12:16 PM
Miniscule compared to income and payroll taxes.

Maybe in your neck of the woods.

beachbum
10-29-2014, 12:33 PM
Maybe in your neck of the woods.

Maybe its fair to say there are differences in the Canadian and US tax structure...unless you are a "student or scholar" of the US tax code, then my neck of the woods would be relevant for those paying US taxes, do you pay US taxes or Canadian taxes? I can't say that I know anything about Canadian taxes so I would not begin to argue a position on that.

habsheaven
10-29-2014, 12:40 PM
Maybe its fair to say there are differences in the Canadian and US tax structure...unless you are a "student or scholar" of the US tax code, then my neck of the woods would be relevant for those paying US taxes, do you pay US taxes or Canadian taxes? I can't say that I know anything about Canadian taxes so I would not begin to argue a position on that.

Obviously, I pay Canadian taxes. Our fuel taxes are collected "supposedly" for roads and highways (infrastructure). Gas prices have dropped over the last month by about 13 cents a litre, down to $1.22 a litre right now. Care to convert that to US gallons and still call it miniscule?

37jetson
10-29-2014, 02:52 PM
I don't know about you, but I pay property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes and any number of other "fees" regardless of whether or not I have a job.

From what I know of Canada a larger portion of your tax base is consumer driven through higher gas taxes, higher alcohol/cigarette taxes, higher Sales/GST taxes than America. A larger porition of the American economy is dependent upon jobs for the taxation of corporations and the taxation of individuals. If you want to know what the chicken and egg is when it comes to taxation the answer is jobs. Without private sector jobs the government would not be able to function to the extent that it does today. I believe that Bill Clinton's economic team understood this, but I do not have the same belief of Obama and his cronies.

beachbum
10-30-2014, 11:19 AM
Obviously, I pay Canadian taxes. Our fuel taxes are collected "supposedly" for roads and highways (infrastructure). Gas prices have dropped over the last month by about 13 cents a litre, down to $1.22 a litre right now. Care to convert that to US gallons and still call it miniscule?

There is no "obviously" anything on these boards, you should take a lesson from the assumption book, and don't do that. I ask questions because I have learned that assumptions are the fastest way to get yourself in trouble. So onto your petrol and the huge reduction you are seeing at the pump.........what does it have to do with income and payroll taxes in the U.S. (my previous point)??


From what I know of Canada a larger portion of your tax base is consumer driven through higher gas taxes, higher alcohol/cigarette taxes, higher Sales/GST taxes than America. A larger porition of the American economy is dependent upon jobs for the taxation of corporations and the taxation of individuals. If you want to know what the chicken and egg is when it comes to taxation the answer is jobs. Without private sector jobs the government would not be able to function to the extent that it does today. I believe that Bill Clinton's economic team understood this, but I do not have the same belief of Obama and his cronies.

This makes sense although like I said earlier I don't know much about Canadian taxes or politics in general. It sure surprises me how much our northern brethren know about U.S. politics, taxes, foreign policy, etc., maybe Canadian politics is too boring??

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 12:41 PM
There is no "obviously" anything on these boards, you should take a lesson from the assumption book, and don't do that. I ask questions because I have learned that assumptions are the fastest way to get yourself in trouble. So onto your petrol and the huge reduction you are seeing at the pump.........what does it have to do with income and payroll taxes in the U.S. (my previous point)??


The comment has to do with the post of yours that it quoted. I was pointing out how much I pay in taxes other than income taxes.

shrewsbury
10-30-2014, 01:15 PM
habs, so where does your magic money come from to pay taxes with no job?
I would bet one of two sources, your family, who earned the money through work, or the government, who got the money via taxes, which came from someone working.

property tax, means you own property, so you or someone else bought it, I guess with the magic money.

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 01:30 PM
habs, so where does your magic money come from to pay taxes with no job?
I would bet one of two sources, your family, who earned the money through work, or the government, who got the money via taxes, which came from someone working.

property tax, means you own property, so you or someone else bought it, I guess with the magic money.

It doesn't matter where I get my money from. There is nobody deciding how I spend my money, so any company creating jobs could not exist without I, the consumer. So it is I that gets credit for job creation.

We can all play this game.

no consumer = no demand
no demand = no industry
no industry = no business
no business = no jobs
no jobs = no taxes
no taxes = no government
no government = no infrastructure

shrewsbury
10-30-2014, 02:32 PM
no game, just facts

no product = no consumer

so your whole theory is blown, again

but wait, maybe the product comes from the same magic source as the money

beachbum
10-30-2014, 02:37 PM
The comment has to do with the post of yours that it quoted. I was pointing out how much I pay in taxes other than income taxes.

That is irrelevant, apples to oranges...if you want to be relevant, counter with your income and payroll taxes in Canada.

Hint: You don't have to talk about your personal income tax, think big, like what your country collects to spend on your welfare programs and robust defense system.

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 07:42 PM
no game, just facts

no product = no consumer

so your whole theory is blown, again

but wait, maybe the product comes from the same magic source as the money

Which came first, the consumer or the corporation? Game, set and match!! Try again on another thread.

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 07:44 PM
That is irrelevant, apples to oranges...if you want to be relevant, counter with your income and payroll taxes in Canada.

Hint: You don't have to talk about your personal income tax, think big, like what your country collects to spend on your welfare programs and robust defense system.

Huh? The point was that there are more than just apples going into the coffers of the government. Why the weak attempt to insult my country about welfare and defense? Check out the rankings in the world regarding anything other than defense spending. You lose in every category. I will take this country just fine. What a joke!!!

37jetson
10-30-2014, 07:54 PM
Which came first, the consumer or the corporation? Game, set and match!! Try again on another thread.

Are you trolling us with these nonsense replies?

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 07:58 PM
Are you trolling us with these nonsense replies?

Where is the nonsense? Did we have corporations before consumers? It's a simple question. If we are going to play "which came first" let's start at the beginning.

beachbum
10-30-2014, 08:33 PM
Huh? The point was that there are more than just apples going into the coffers of the government. Why the weak attempt to insult my country about welfare and defense? Check out the rankings in the world regarding anything other than defense spending. You lose in every category. I will take this country just fine. What a joke!!!

I guess, just like all the money you are saving at the pump, great anti-point. So your answer is exactly what I would expect from a liberal, north or south of the border, SPENDING is the great barometer of success!!!

That is the true joke!!

37jetson
10-30-2014, 08:37 PM
Where is the nonsense? Did we have corporations before consumers? It's a simple question. If we are going to play "which came first" let's start at the beginning.

I do not feed trolls. Try somewhere else.

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 08:52 PM
I guess, just like all the money you are saving at the pump, great anti-point. So your answer is exactly what I would expect from a liberal, north or south of the border, SPENDING is the great barometer of success!!!

That is the true joke!!

Spoken like a true American. lol

habsheaven
10-30-2014, 08:53 PM
I do not feed trolls. Try somewhere else.

You're the one trolling. My post was relevant to the thread and the discussion I was having with Jay. Your post is trolling. Nothing more.

beachbum
10-30-2014, 08:55 PM
Spoken like a true American. lol

Thank you!

37jetson
10-30-2014, 10:43 PM
My wife was flipping channels in the other room and stopped for a few seconds at Rachel Maddow ripping the CDC to shreds for their incompetency.

shrewsbury
10-31-2014, 10:31 AM
Which came first, the consumer or the corporation? Game, set and match!! Try again on another thread.

try again,

which came first, product or consumer?

match over

habsheaven
10-31-2014, 01:33 PM
try again,

which came first, product or consumer?

match over

Consumer obviously.

shrewsbury
10-31-2014, 02:23 PM
how can there be a consumer with no product?

human first, sure, but no one used google, until there was google. no one bought a tickle me elmo until there was one.

habsheaven
10-31-2014, 06:06 PM
how can there be a consumer with no product?

human first, sure, but no one used google, until there was google. no one bought a tickle me elmo until there was one.

No they used something else before Google. Google came up with their product to get consumers that already existed. The consumers were already there.

shrewsbury
10-31-2014, 07:25 PM
habs, their had to be a first. there had to be a search engine for someone to pick a particular one.

someone had to create the product or service (maybe improved upon) for a consumer base to exist for that product or service.

you could make a product or service without the consumer
you cannot have a consumer without a product or service
the consumer demand will determine job creation and taxes paid

I am unsure of whether I am disagreeing just to disagree, or if it is you doing so.