PDA

View Full Version : Beckett DESTROYING the hobby



tomdawg3
06-12-2007, 07:26 PM
Is it just me or do cards keep on going down in Beckett. Rarely do you see cards increase in value in Beckett, but every month there are a crapload of cards that decrease in value. It doesn't even matter if a player gets hot and is selling way above above BV (ie. Deron Williams), their cards still go down. Doesn't Beckett realize that people pay according to what the BV of the card is!!! It is not the other way around. Beckett is what sets the standard when it comes to values, and as far as I'm concerned, they are doing a horrible job. I am not in card collecting for profit (I don't sell my cards), but it is quite depressing when you look in the new Beckett and a bunch of your cards decreased in value (month after month after month). To make things even worse, card companies (UD & Topps) keep on increasing the prices of boxes to the point where it isn't even worth buying boxes anymore (unless you happen to have money to blow in which case you can always donate it to me). Maybe it is just me venting, but I think this hobby has made a turn for the worse and Beckett is the blame. LMK what you think

L.Washington#29
06-12-2007, 08:38 PM
I think that you should collect because you like cards and not worry about what they are worth. Now I do agree that if I paid $150 for a box and got all $20 cards, I would be pissed off. But Beckett is not to blame, the companies that put out crappy cards are. Beckett marks cards down in value when certain things happen (i.e. Deron Williams now being out of the playoffs which means that he will likely be forgotten and lose value) and not by how cards sell. If you want to stop seeing down arrows, don't look in beckett and either trade by sell value or because you like the cards you are getting back.

halekulani
06-12-2007, 08:40 PM
if card companies stopped releasing so many GU/autos and made base/parallels worth more, the whole hobby would benefit...plus it might even be worth collecting sets. companies also need to cut down on the 150 per box thing. it's getting out of hand. prices are going up but throwing in 4 hits per box aren't fitting consumer needs either.

swill300
06-12-2007, 09:05 PM
Bad enough that young kids today can't afford these $100-200++++ boxes so they can get into collecting like when I was a kid 20 years ago and boxes were $12 or .39 a pack, but now lots of adults who were young collectors once a while back now see this as a mini stock market instead of a hobby. This in turn drives the companies to continue to raise the prices, knowing that their product will still be bought. Halekulani has a point, if companies would go back just a little and produce just a couple hits per case and make them really something instead of a Robert Swift GU sock/shoelace/headband combo (you know what I mean!!!) people may able to justify spending a little more for the product. I have stopped buying boxes for 6 months now, and see no reason to start back up again. I for one am tired of buying ANY box that has these junk GU and or ANY redemption card, I see no use for them whatsoever. As for beckett/TuffStuff, I think at one time they were just a benchmark for what they thought was a decent market price for cards, now its more of a buisness. I do sell cards on occasion, in order to get more money to buy more stuff, however with prices dropping like they have been, trying to find a deal for 10% and yet sell for 18-20% is becoming harder every day, the difference just covers postage and expenses to get them sent out. I realize I am ranting about nothing really, what I think doesn't matter to the companies of course, but an interesteing topic overall.

lasherclan
06-12-2007, 09:52 PM
What puzzles and troubles me about Beckett's pricing is when cards that are serially numbered to the same level e.g #'d to 100...vary wildly in value. I understand that some manufacturers and some sets are more desirable....but if there are only 100 of a certain card in the whole world...shouldnt that scarcity drive the pricing...e.g. wouldnt all cards of one player, with similar scarcity, be similarly valued? Or, if there is going to be a premium placed on certain sets, shouldnt the MSRP of the pack/box have an impact? I am always amazed that Kevin Garnett "base" cards from high end packs are very similar in value to "base" cards from low end packs.

dayzdtomato
06-12-2007, 10:16 PM
From a CPA and a collector perspective - stay with me here - an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That is the same regardless of what you are talking about...real estate, cars, clothes, and cards. There are so few instances in which the beckett high price is realized that it is almost worthless.

Therefore I basically ignore Beckett except as a way to identify what cards of a specific player are out there any therefore what I need for my collections. If I'm planning to sell, I'm likely to look more at recent ebay sales or prices on other card sites for an idea.

asujbl
06-12-2007, 10:25 PM
this CPA couldn't agree more.

lasherclan
06-12-2007, 10:45 PM
Hey! What's up with all the CPAs? :) This Banker (Commercial Lending) agrees...but I am still troubled by the feeling that someone's willingness to pay, or not pay, a certain amount for a card, may well be influenced by the values that Beckett assigns....I have to admit...if I am bidding on a KG item on ebay....I typically look up the BV on Beckett and then calculate a reasonable percentage of high BV to determine my bid. I know Beckett claims that they simply tabulate and report what is occurring in the market, but in my mind there is a "chicken" vs. "egg" dilemma here....anyhoo...I'll stop pissing and moaning about it.....it's not like I'm gonna do anything about it...and I'll keep buying Beckett's price guides anyway b/c they probably are the most accurate thing available

springwoodslasher
06-12-2007, 10:54 PM
After checking out the Beckett that came out today, I'm pretty damn upset myself. There's stuff that went down that I paid more than the high price is now just a month or so ago. It's pretty stupid. I'm just thinking of saying screw Beckett from now on because they seem like they have no clue what's going on at all.

tomdawg3
06-12-2007, 10:59 PM
From a CPA and a collector perspective - stay with me here - an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That is the same regardless of what you are talking about...real estate, cars, clothes, and cards. There are so few instances in which the beckett high price is realized that it is almost worthless.

Therefore I basically ignore Beckett except as a way to identify what cards of a specific player are out there any therefore what I need for my collections. If I'm planning to sell, I'm likely to look more at recent ebay sales or prices on other card sites for an idea.

I understand what you are saying here, but the problem is people are usually only willing to pay a certain percentage of the BV, no matter what the BV is. For instance, lets say Player A's auto has a BV of $100. On ebay, people tend to pay around 50% high BV for Player A's auto. Beckett realizes that this particular card usually goes for around $40-$60, and lowers the BV to $60. Now, however, people are only willing to pay around $30 for the card. It's a never ending vicious cycle.

Another problem with Beckett is that they tend to lower cards much more then they increase a cards value. Using my example of D-Will - even though D-Will was very hot there for a while, his cards never really went up in BV. However, now that he's out of the playoffs, a few of his cards actually decreased in value. How does that make any sense when they are still selling better than they were before the playoffs. I don't know, I just think it is very frustrating when all you ever see in Beckett are down arrows.

tomdawg3
06-12-2007, 11:00 PM
After checking out the Beckett that came out today, I'm pretty damn upset myself. There's stuff that went down that I paid more than the high price is now just a month or so ago. It's pretty stupid. I'm just thinking of saying screw Beckett from now on because they seem like they have no clue what's going on at all.

AMEN........

dayzdtomato
06-13-2007, 05:17 PM
Those are all good points. I keep thinking about Kelley Blue Book which is often used in the used car market as a guide. It seems that is more in line with reality than is Beckett. Maybe there is more scrutiny in that area due to more users and sources like Consumer Reports in addition to the numerous markets available for comparison. With cards, it's basically just Beckett and that has very little oversight it seems. As another CPA comment - where is the audit???

gatorboymike
06-14-2007, 01:31 AM
If you ask me, Upper Deck has done more damage to the hobby than Beckett has. Starting in about 1992, the card companies began competing with each other at a previously unseen level to make the most expensive stuff they could (probably due to the previously unseen level of excitement that Shaq's entry into the NBA caused). Since then the card collecting hobby began to shift away from a fun pastime for kids to a beauty contest exclusively for the super-rich. The fun used to be in collecting every card in a huge set, while today it revolves around grappling for as many ludicrously expensive cards as one can. This has alienated a great number of collectors, driving down interest in both recent and vintage cards. Beckett sees this, and the prices fall every year in accordance.

And by the way...if Upper Deck succeeds in buying Topps and becomes a monopoly, we can only expect this to get exponentially worse.

WilyWestbrook0
06-14-2007, 12:28 PM
The down arrows are actually there for a reason - the market is now flooded with GU and autos, and when supply increases, demand decreases (I am taking an Econ class right now, can you tell? lol). It's the same for serially numbered sets. An Antoine Walker card #ed to 150 in 1997-98 is valued at $60, but one from last year is typically worth about $3 because there are now gazillions of them.

The hobby is in a shift; GU and autos have lost their novelty and scarcity. Expect prices on boxes to eventually fall as well.

(FWIW, I have gotten nostalgic for the old days as well, and plan on buying some old school boxes for my birthday in November for set-building purposes..just is more fun for me).

Gtbballer20
06-14-2007, 12:33 PM
From a CPA and a collector perspective - stay with me here - an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That is the same regardless of what you are talking about...real estate, cars, clothes, and cards. There are so few instances in which the beckett high price is realized that it is almost worthless.

Therefore I basically ignore Beckett except as a way to identify what cards of a specific player are out there any therefore what I need for my collections. If I'm planning to sell, I'm likely to look more at recent ebay sales or prices on other card sites for an idea.
i agree that we should not totally focus on the bv of a card but on how much we really like that person. When i used to collect Ben Gordon and his cards went way down, i was really pissed. My collection plummeted several hunderd dollars....but they never rose during the playoffs....even though he and deng did phenominal....but like i said....personally i think that Becketts is only there to give a good price estimate for collectors like ourselves....

tawana
06-14-2007, 12:53 PM
I agree that Upper Deck has done more damage than any one. They put out crap and I cannot count the times the "great pull" was damaged and had to be returned for a replacement that takes 2 years to get back. If your a card company your Wuality Control has to make sure the Jordan Autos and Lebrons Rookies are NMNT or MINT. Don't let them fool you either with this sticker on card BS. "That helps us redeem quicker to you" yeah right, all they had to do is what they did just a few years ago get ahead of releases with production. Upper Deck is all about making that $$.
It is too funny that we are paying more for a box of Basketball cards then what we paid Lebron and D Wades Rookie year.

tradebark
06-15-2007, 03:43 PM
Wait, people actually buy stuff based on BV..?

hahahhahahahhahahahhahahah

1st off, Beckett Basketball is run by ONE PERSON. ONE. JUST ONE GUY. BY HIMSELF.

2nd, a good 95% of prices listed in Beckett are inaccurate. When's the last time anyone paid $7 for a recent Jordan base card? If you're paying these prices you should just save yourself the effort and flush your paychecks down the toilet.

3rd, even using it as a general guideline tends to fail since eBay is free and so much more up to date on any and every card. Plus again, even using "relative" BV's only has a shelf life of a couple months at best (like knowing that a Morrison is worth more than a Roy, or something like that), because that one guy doing Beckett BKB probably doesnt revisit his old pricing decisions.

4th, it's extremely rare for anyone to pay ABOVE Beckett value. The fact that he's making new BV's lower is a smart move since.. DUH.. no one actually pays that much for cards.