PDA

View Full Version : Shaq, Kobe and the LAKERS -thoughts on it all



Landek7
07-14-2004, 11:45 PM
I am one of those die hard Laker fans. I love Kobe, I love shaq, and most of all i love the Lakers purple and gold. As we all know the Lakers have dissmantled, Kobes fate is still pending but most likely he'll remain a Laker. The question is what do you guys think the trade/trades will have on the basketball card hobby?

I am a huge Kobe card collector, but with this break up i think it has all changed. I believe Kobe's cards are going to dip just as Vince Carters a few years ago. Because as much as i hate to say it, Kobe just isnt worth collecting any more. His arrogence and ego have just dropped him from the ranks of the hobbies elite. As for the immediate future he will not be winning, who knows if we will even see him in the playoffs (where he shines so brightly) :(

Shaq on the other hand seems to have picked up so much steem. You dont have to be an NBA analyst to recognize this upcoming season belongs to Shaq. Shaq will dominate, he's going to be 30-15 every night. He will do this just to spite all the people who say he cant, and has lost a step. Playing the likes of Atlanta, Washington, Boston, Toronto, Orlando and the expansion Bobcats night in and night out, there is no sign he wont average 30-15 or even higher.

Dwayne Wade, who im also a big fan of, might just propell himself to the top of the hobby if he and Shaq can put together an NBA Title run.

minew_m
07-15-2004, 08:31 AM
I totally agree with all your thoughts. I think people may be starting to get fed up with Kobe and his antics. He is the one who basically destroyed the lakers. I know I am dumping all my cards of Kobe right now.

podstock
07-15-2004, 08:53 PM
if you truly are dumping all Kobe cards, send them my way

this whole fiasco is both Shaq and Kobe's fault; to say that one or the other was mostly at fault is false

1. after the Lakers won 3 in a row, who decided to get surgery done in September (rather than June, July, August) and thereby miss most of Nov-Dec? SHAQ

2. who came into camp out-of-shape, over-weight, and stated "I work out on company time"? SHAQ

Yes, Kobe is egotistical, selfish, arrogant

don't tell me Shaq isn't also.

Karl Malone came here to play for $1M

Shaq's made almost $200M in his life, and he wants $30M a year for 5 more years AFTER his contract expires 2 years from now???

how come Kevin Garnett can take a huge cut in salary, and KG is 28 years old, and in his prime.......

yet, Shaq won't consider a cut in his salary, despite the FACT that he's slowing down?

both are at fault; perhaps one is more at fault than the other. but NEITHER is the one who "....basically destroyed the lakers..."

minew_m
07-15-2004, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by podstock

yet, Shaq won't consider a cut in his salary, despite the FACT that he's slowing down?




If you look at Kobe's stats this year too, he is also "slowing down". Shaq and Kobe had 2 other future hall of famers to pass the ball to. That's why Shaq's points were down. He also had less than 1,000 shots for only the second season in his career. His rebounds were down because Malone was there. The only thing that is truely down is his free throw percentage. Other than that his stats are where they should be. His shooting percentage was even up.

podstock
07-15-2004, 09:12 PM
lolol....

I, Lakers fans, general managers around the league, media analysts, sports writers all agree that while Shaq is still very dominant, he has slowed down

and yet, you alone insist to the contrary

lol

there's gotta be an NBA team who can use your talent in scouting players, don't ya think?

I mean, you see what no one else can see.... and that's a skill that separates the legendary Jerry West (the general manager who brought together Shaq, Kobe, Phil Jackson) from other general managers

lol

minew_m
07-15-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by podstock
lolol....

I, Lakers fans, general managers around the league, media analysts, sports writers all agree that while Shaq is still very dominant, he has slowed down


Have you looked at ESPN lately? Well there were ton's of analysts on today who think that Shaq hasn't really slowed down. There will always be the ones (probably the ones in LA who are still angry that he has left their team) that beg to differ, but then there are those who see the other side of it.

podstock
07-15-2004, 09:27 PM
by the way, you say you are dumping your Kobe cards

for how much?

Don't tell me you're selling them for 50% off BV, b/c all dealers at local card shows basically sell cards for 50% off.

and most will sell for 60-70%...just check out naxcom.com, etc.

so, if you are really "dumping" them, are you williing to sell them at 10% of BV?

To dump cards mean you sell them at prices that no one else sells them at.

Otherwise, if you're selling them for 50% BV, and so are most others, if not lower prices, how will you get rid of the cards?

after all, if you're selling at 10% of BV, and no one else is, that's how you get rid of the cards, right?

minew_m
07-15-2004, 09:33 PM
I've been trading off most of them. I have maybe $60 or $70 worth of inserts left (inserts range for $10 to $15 a piece in BV). If your interested in buying, I could let them go for 15% of BV.

Landek7
07-16-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by podstock

Shaq's made almost $200M in his life, and he wants $30M a year for 5 more years AFTER his contract expires 2 years from now???

how come Kevin Garnett can take a huge cut in salary, and KG is 28 years old, and in his prime.......

yet, Shaq won't consider a cut in his salary, despite the FACT that he's slowing down?
[/B]

How can you say Shaq is "slowing down". Yes he is getting older, and no doubt 2 years from now he will be a different player. But as for next year or two, Shaq is going to dominate like we've never seen before. The Heat will win around 55 games, Shaq will average 30pts-15reb, and Shaq will take home the MVP.

The reason Kevin Garnett can take a pay cut is because he would continue to LOSE if he did not. KG knows hes in his prime, but he also knows that doesnt mean anything if he loses in the first round every year. THUS his paycut, and the trip to the western conference finals.

Shaq doesnt need to take a paycut because it is FACT whatever team he is on wins. KG took a paycut in the name of winning. If Shaq takes a paycut, what would that be in the name of?... It would be in the name of losing money for no reason and being taken advantage of by the organization that pays him. Shaq needs that money because he is the one and only player in the NBA that truly deserves it.

On the other hand, you are definetly right that both Kobe and Shaq caused the Lakers destruction. Neither had more influence or wrong doing than the other.

minew_m
07-16-2004, 03:39 PM
Landek7- Great points. I never thought of the money situation like that. The only thing is no one deserves the kind of money Shaq is getting. Close to $30 million a year is rediculous. He is still the most dominant player in the NBA, but hell, I wouldn't even give Jordan that type of money. You are also totally right about KG. He had to take the paycut in order to try to win.

But hey, if you look at all the money Shaq may bring in, it could be worth it. His Heat jerseys that literally came out a day or two ago is already selling quite well. People are excited about the franchise. They are going to sell out almost every game.

podstock
07-16-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Landek7
Shaq doesnt need to take a paycut because it is FACT whatever team he is on wins. KG took a paycut in the name of winning. If Shaq takes a paycut, what would that be in the name of?...

how many titles has Shaq won?

THREE

all while with Kobe and the Lakers

we'll see what happens next year and in the future years, with both Kobe and the Lakers, and Shaq and his Heat

Landek7
07-17-2004, 01:41 AM
Minew_m
thanks for appreciating my views. I appreciate all of you guys views as i love this forum. HA i didnt even know Shaq jerseys were out yet. I should go to the mall and check it out

Podstock,
again what you say is true. Shaq hasnt won without Kobe, and Kobe hasnt won without Shaq.

But logically, Shaq was the foundation of those titles. Shaq was the Jordan, and Kobe was the Pippen.

Tracy McGrady, as we all know is nearly Kobe's equal (lacking slightly in the defensive department) He couldnt win on his own, and neither will Kobe. This is especially true in Kobes case as he plays in the absolutely loaded western conference. A dynamic 2 gaurd in this day and age cannot get it done by himself.

As for the immediate future, I think its pretty clear cut.

Kobe is going to struggle to take the Lakers to the playoffs :(

Shaq is going to struggle to beat Detroit in the Eastern conference finals.

podstock
07-18-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Landek7
Tracy McGrady, as we all know is nearly Kobe's equal (lacking slightly in the defensive department) He couldnt win on his own, and neither will Kobe. This is especially true in Kobes case as he plays in the absolutely loaded western conference. A dynamic 2 gaurd in this day and age cannot get it done by himself.


please don't compare T-Mac to Kobe

1. Kobe is clutch - in regular season, in post-season; T-Mac has yet to show that he is clutch.

2. yes, T-Mac has won scoring titles...but if Kobe was on the Orlando Magic, he too would've won the scoring titles. Heck, in 2002-2003 season, with Shaq out due to injury, Kobe ran off 8 straight games of 40+ points

3. as for defense, on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being the defensive stalwars Bill Russell and 1 being the lack of defense of Dallas Mavs), Kobe is an 8, and T-Mac a 2
Kobe's a 3-time All-NBA 1st team All-defense.
I don't believe T-Mac has even made the 3rd team?

4. T-Mac and Kobe are equal in one respect: both are whiny, selfish, egotistical s.
T-Mac quit on the Magic last year, so much so that he pretty much missed the last 20+ games due to "injury" as the Magic won about 15-20 games total
Kobe played his part in dismantling the Lakers with his ego and selfishness.

But this coming year will answer lots of questions:

a) can T-Mac play team ball now that he is paired with Yao and help the team win. Houston now has that lethal combo of inside and outside presence that the Lakers once had

b) we will see what Kobe is all about

minew_m
07-18-2004, 09:36 PM
You can't really compare T-mac to Kobe. First of all Kobe is playing in the West. Enough is said there. If Kobe were playing in the East, he would have higer numbers.

The only thing T-mac is better at is passing. He gets about half an assist more per game. T-mac also does lead Kobe in rebounding, but don't forget that is in the East were there are big men.

Landek7
07-19-2004, 06:18 AM
I think my point was misunderstood, as im certainly not comparing Tmac and Kobe. Nor did i ever say/imply Tmac is offensively better than Kobe and vice-versa.

The point to my the Tmac statement was simply he, like Kobe, is an elite player at the gaurd spot. Capable of exploding offensively for an MJ like performance. But in todays game thats not enough. A dynamic gaurd, by his self, will not win games.

Podstock, your comment about Kobes 8 straight 40+ games is exactly what im talking about. Kobe had one great game after another, but the outcome was losses for the Lakers. When Shaq wasnt in the Lineup the Lakers were bellow 500.

I think we already know Kobe is the man. Hes clutch, and has a complete game with great scoring and defense. But i dont care how well he plays next season. The Lakers are going to struggle to be above 500.

If Tmac couldnt get it done in the East, Kobe will definetly not get it done out west.

PS- In Tmacs defense... It is ridiculous to say hes not clutch. He has hit plenty of clutch shots, both in the regular season, and playoffs (remember Detroit? or Charlotte 3 years back)

Kobe has been playing on the NBA's biggest stage for the past 5 years! He has had about 10 times as much playoff exposure than Tmac. Can you honestly tell me if Tmac had been in the finals every year, you would question his ability in the clutch? :rolleyes:

minew_m
07-19-2004, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Landek7
Podstock, your comment about Kobes 8 straight 40+ games is exactly what im talking about. Kobe had one great game after another, but the outcome was losses for the Lakers. When Shaq wasnt in the Lineup the Lakers were bellow 500.

I think we already know Kobe is the man. Hes clutch, and has a complete game with great scoring and defense. But i dont care how well he plays next season. The Lakers are going to struggle to be above 500.

If Tmac couldnt get it done in the East, Kobe will definetly not get it done out west.



Great points again. It is going to be almost impossible to be competetive without a big man. Douthit is their bigest guy right now (6'10"). In college he struggled to score and rebound. All he basically did is block shots. I don't think that is the type of big man the Lakers need. He may average 35 a game without Shaq there, but it won't do jack in the win column.

stalking_WOLF_21
07-19-2004, 10:15 AM
i was watching "jim rome is burning"
and he said even if shaq slows down and then retire. the heat has some money to work with when shaq does leave.

minew_m
07-19-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by stalking_WOLF_21
if shaq slows down and then retire. the heat has some money to work with when shaq does leave.

That may be a long time. Shaq stated that he want's to play for another eight years.

kobe847
08-09-2004, 05:00 PM
if ur dumping them i want them cuz idc.hes my fav and is the best player in the league!!!



Originally posted by minew_m
I totally agree with all your thoughts. I think people may be starting to get fed up with Kobe and his antics. He is the one who basically destroyed the lakers. I know I am dumping all my cards of Kobe right now.

minew_m
08-09-2004, 07:00 PM
kobe847- I have a few left if your interested. What do you have to trade? PM me

podstock
08-09-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Landek7
I am a huge Kobe card collector, but with this break up i think it has all changed. I believe Kobe's cards are going to dip just as Vince Carters a few years ago. Because as much as i hate to say it, Kobe just isnt worth collecting any more. His arrogence and ego have just dropped him from the ranks of the hobbies elite. As for the immediate future he will not be winning, who knows if we will even see him in the playoffs (where he shines so brightly) :(

[/COLOR]

I too think Kobe's cards will dip in value... until he proves he can lead his team deep into the playoffs and the NBA Title..

however, there is a big difference b/t Vince Carter and Kobe.

1. Vince Carter was OVER-HYPED. Once 2-3 years passed, people saw that Vince was a 1-one-1 player ... but someone that you could shut down in the playoffs.

2. Vince Carter doesn't play defense. So, there's no point in scoring 30 points, if the man you guard scores 25 or more.

3. Vince Carter is not clutch... he comes up short in many playoffs games.

4. Vince Carter doesn't play hurt. An ankle sprain here and there, and he's out 2-3 weeks

on the other hand,

1. Kobe also was hyped..but, he has lived up to the hype, and then some.

2. Kobe plays tremendous defense. He is a 3-times All-NBA Defense first team.

3. Kobe is clutch.

4. Kobe plays hurt. In game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals, Kobe missed the game (or only played a few minutes) b/c of a sprained ankle. He came back to hobble/play game 5, helping the Lakers win in OT as Shaq fouled out in regular session. Kobe has played with a sprained ankle, sprained knee, tendinitis in the wrist, shoulder pain...

Look, if you are seriously hurt - say, a broken bone - then of course, you gotta sit. But, if it's a sprain - certain athletes have a higher pain threshold

so, as time goes by, and assuming Kobe plays about 15 years worth, he will have his name high up in the stat book, and put his stamp as one of the best players in the NBA, and a path to the HOF.

Kobe, assuming he performs for the next 9-10 years... is headed to the Hall

I personally hope Kobe's cards, esp. his RC, tanks. I still need his E-X RC, which books over $100+, I believe

minew_m
08-09-2004, 07:54 PM
His cards already dropped in value last season when the rape allegations came out. I don't think they will dip as far as Carter's went, unless he does get convicted.

Landek7
08-10-2004, 04:42 AM
[Vince Carter was OVER-HYPED. Once 2-3 years passed, people saw that Vince was a 1-one-1 player ... but someone that you could shut down in the playoffs.

Quote of Podstock

lol i dont think a comparison of Vince and Kobe is necassary.

Though i have to disagree with you on the playoffs statement. The last time Vince was in the playoffs series was against the 76's and Allen Iverson. Vince averaged 35 points a game and was one missed jump shot away from advancing his team to the next round. You call that getting shut down ? your crazy:confused:

podstock
08-10-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Landek7
Though i have to disagree with you on the playoffs statement. The last time Vince was in the playoffs series was against the 76's and Allen Iverson. Vince averaged 35 points a game and was one missed jump shot away from advancing his team to the next round. You call that getting shut down ? your crazy:confused:

I do agree ... that series he had was good...but that's been it.

Since then, he's regressed tremendously

Landek7
08-11-2004, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by podstock
I do agree ... that series he had was good...but that's been it.

Since then, he's regressed tremendously

Of course thats been it!

I dont think you know much about the topic because since then Vince hasnt been in the playoffs. So how has he regressed? You said Vince is easily shut down in the playoffs, that is obviously anything but true.