DAK PRESCOTT ... EXPOSED or NOT?

[jplcom]

I don't think Prescott's body of work is complete enough to write him off. The NFL is littered with careers of guys who were judged too soon but emerged as good quarterbacks for new teams.

• Steve Young was the 1st overall pick in the '84 supplemental draft for the Buccaneers, in 2 seasons went 3-16 in 19 starts with 11 TDs and 21 INTs then served a 4 year apprenticeship in San Fran until he got his shot
• Kerry Collins was the 5th overall pick in the '95 draft for the Panthers yet it took him 5 years and 3 teams later before he became a reliable player.
• Kurt Warner, who doesn't know his story?
• Tommy Maddox was the 25th overall pick in '92 and after starting 0-4 his rookie season, waited 10 years and a career change before getting a shot again with Pittsburgh
• Rich Gannon was a middle round pickin the 80s, started 33 games for the Vikings, then spent 5 years as a journeyman backup until starting 10 games for the Chiefs and going on to be a two-time All Pro with the Raiders in the early 2000s

I'm not saying that Dak is destined to break out. There are more than a couple examples of QBs needing a change of scenery to find themselves. It's also not saying that the Cowboys are stifling him either (though personally I think they are with poor WR/TE play). Packers did alright letting Kurt Warner, Mark Brunell, and Aaron Brooks walk in favor of ol' #4. But let's give it some time before we start crowning guys or leaving them in the gutter and enjoy their play for the moment. Let their place in history take care of itself when the time comes.

[Jameis1of1]

Great replies guys … my comments to all three of you below:

THOUGHTS:
Has Dak been good? No. Will he be better? Yes. Has the team been losing because of his play? They did in week 1 but not yesterday. I'm not saying Dak has been great and he needs to be better. But, for people to act like this is all on him is a sign of the fact that they either don't watch football or are very biased.

Nothing is ever all on one player, Dak included … but he's been terrible this year and was terrible without Zeke last year, despite still having a better run game than the league average.

1: Taking a small sample size and stretching it out to come to the conclusion of what stats will be at the end of the season doesn't work. It never will. For example, based on your logic, Fitzpatrick is going to have the best season ever with 64 TDS and 6552 yards!!! If that happens, Winston will be looking for a different team.

Dak's struggles date back to last year which is not a small sample size … he's one of the only QBs in the entire NFL, along with Mariota and a couple others that struggle to even throw for 195 yards a game … it's been a problem for over a year.

2: The Cowboys have played 3 of the top 5 defenses in the league in the first 3 weeks of the season.

Um, no, that's not even remotely close to true.

In yards allowed the Giants are #15, Seahawks #17 and the Panthers are #19 and that's after shutting down Dallas which means they were even worse against their other opponents. In points, the Panthers are #12 while the Giants are #13 and the Seahawks are #15.

In reality the Cowboys have played three defenses in the #15-16 range, which is just "average".

3: Dak would have no INTs if his receivers could catch the ball. The 2 INTs that he has this season were point blank drops by rookie receivers and then spectacular catches by an ALL-WORLD safety in Earl Thomas. Dak should have no INTs to this point in the year.

That's debatable but it's a fair point.

4: He should have another TD but that got called back because Zeke stepped out of bounds before catching the ball. He should have 3 TDs to go along with no picks, but he doesn't because of mistakes that other players made.

This is a silly point as the TD you reference simply wasn't a TD and one of Dak's two passes was really a 3 yard running play by Tavon Austin … Dak's got just 1 legit TD pass in 3 games …

5: If you extrapolate the numbers that he should have, he should finish the season with 16 TDs and no INTs. That also doesn't figure in his 6.1 yards per carry to this point.

You could play that game with every QB … it's irrelevant though, and again, it's not accurate either as he's only got one legit TD pass, which works out to a 5 TD pass season …

The Cowboys are losing because they have played top ranked defenses and making mistakes at critical points in the game. Dak does need to be a little better and he will be moving forward. Just like Fitz or Mahommes won't continue playing at the level they are at. It is statistically impossible that Dak ends up with the stats you are pretending he will have. Unless he gets injured somewhere along the way, of course!

I don't care about team wins and losses when assessing individual QB play, so I don't care what Dak's record is and am not pinning the team losses on him … but his individual play has been utterly horrendous … and no, I don't think it's impossible that Dak throws for under 3,000 yards in a 16 game season … it would be shocking in 2018 and would make Shannon Sharpe look prophetic when he basically said that Dak isn't any better than old Cowboys bust QB Quincy Carter was … I don't expect Dak to throw for under 3k yards but it's certainly not impossible that he does so.

Dak has had 2 full seasons to progress. He is getting worse as time goes by.

That seems undoubtedly true.

He reminds me of Josh Freeman, he started out hot and went down hill by his 3rd year and was out of the league shortly after.

Dak is nowhere near as talented as Josh Freeman was … but … Dak is also not said to be addicted to cocaine and struggling with keeping his homosexuality in the closet, as Freeman was either, so I doubt he'll ever be as wildly inconsistent as Freeman was, as Josh had one of the strangest short careers in NFL history.

Dak runs way too much and relies on his legs most of the time. That works in college but not the NFL unless you are Michael Vick in his prime. He has a short passing game via bootleg scrambles. I believe every team has figured this out by now. They run with the Ewolk 2 plays then play action or bootleg and throw a 5 yard pass they hope turns into a big play. He does not have the talent to sit in the pocket and pic apart god defenses. Great kid but he is not an NFL starter long term.

I agree … I like Dak and I'll always consider him a success story but he's not a legit starting QB talent, he's just not ...

Winston is another story. If Fitzpatrick keeps up this level for tonight and next game, the Buccs would be foolish to replace him with a rusty Winston.

Yes, Winston is an entirely different story as he's a Hall of Fame "talent" with elite "arm talent" as well … as for Fitz, he played terrible tonight but I still think the Bucs may be wise to let him start the Bears game as Jameis hasn't played or practiced with the team in a long time … so starting him in week 6 makes more sense.

I don't think Prescott's body of work is complete enough to write him off. The NFL is littered with careers of guys who were judged too soon but emerged as good quarterbacks for new teams.

Oh, I agree with that and have always said the Cowboys should give him the full 4 years of his rookie deal to play and see what he has … but, I do think it's been enough time to obviously state that Dak is NOT a starting QB talent and has nowhere near starting QB arm talent … can he overcome that ala Alex Smith, sure, we'll see what happens ...

• Steve Young was the 1st overall pick in the '84 supplemental draft for the Buccaneers, in 2 seasons went 3-16 in 19 starts with 11 TDs and 21 INTs then served a 4 year apprenticeship in San Fran until he got his shot

• Young was an elite talent ...

• Kerry Collins was the 5th overall pick in the '95 draft for the Panthers yet it took him 5 years and 3 teams later before he became a reliable player.

• Collins had ELITE arm talent … Dak has below average /backup level arm talent.

• Kurt Warner, who doesn't know his story?

• Sure, Warner's a good mention but he's also a one in a million guy that had a miraculous type of career ...

• Tommy Maddox was the 25th overall pick in '92 and after starting 0-4 his rookie season, waited 10 years and a career change before getting a shot again with Pittsburgh

• I don't think Dak wants to have Maddox's career ...

• Rich Gannon was a middle round pickin the 80s, started 33 games for the Vikings, then spent 5 years as a journeyman backup until starting 10 games for the Chiefs and going on to be a two-time All Pro with the Raiders in the early 2000s - this is the best comp I think you made

• If the Cowboys don't offer Dak an extension I could see him signing with the Broncos in 2020, replacing Keenum and having a nice career ...

I'm not saying that Dak is destined to break out. There are more than a couple examples of QBs needing a change of scenery to find themselves. It's also not saying that the Cowboys are stifling him either (though personally I think they are with poor WR/TE play). Packers did alright letting Kurt Warner, Mark Brunell, and Aaron Brooks walk in favor of ol' #4. But let's give it some time before we start crowning guys or leaving them in the gutter and enjoy their play for the moment. Let their place in history take care of itself when the time comes.

Very well said! I'd like to see the Cowboys give Dak until the end of NEXT SEASON before they decide whether to move on from him … you never know what will happen.

[22emmittzone]

Dak's stats against the Lions #1 ranked passing defense:
17/27 for 255 yds and 2 TDs (0 INTs). Should have had another TD but Austin dropped a dime thrown by Prescott in the first half!
Enough said!!!

[Jameis1of1]

Dak's stats against the Lions #1 ranked passing defense:
17/27 for 255 yds and 2 TDs (0 INTs). Should have had another TD but Austin dropped a dime thrown by Prescott in the first half!
Enough said!!!

That game was all about Zeke, but yes, Dak played a good game and I'm happy for him … fans are way too hard on him. The guy was a low draft pick, who was drafted to be a backup … no matter what he does from this day forward, he's already a success and exceeded EVERYONE's expectations.

I'm a bigger fan of Stafford of course and he outplayed Dak in the game but Dak had a very nice bounce back game for himself and Cowboys fans should be happy today for sure!

However, NO, that game does not mean "enough said" … the guy got 181 yards of support from his running game, and 240 yards on 29 touches from Zeke (an MVP performance) and regardless, it's just one game … it cracks me up that people live game-to-game and try to make big statements about players on a game-to-game basis … if Dak throws for 175 yards in the next game fans will be killing him again … it's all utterly ridiculous.

Players should be judged on a season-by-season basis only, or at the very least a decent stretch of games, never on a mere game-by-game basis.

I saw some segment on 1st Take and Max Kellerman said that Jared Goff is now elite because he just had his first 5 TD game … I mean, seriously? That's insane.

Max also crushed Mitch Trubisky … and what happened today when Mitch got to play Tampa's atrocious pass-defense? He looked like Dan Marino and threw 6 TDs …

Judging any player on a game-by-game basis is the height of sports insanity and really needs to stop …

But … that's the way modern folks are, they are rabid team fans, get really emotional about sports and over-react to everything … many will probably say Josh Allen is a bust after he stunk it up against the Packers this week, forgetting that just last week he looked like a future sure-fire HOF'er against the Vikings … ugh, people have lost the ability to think it seems … what a sad state the world is in.

[22emmittzone]

Good job throwing for 250+ yards today Zeke against the #1 ranked pass defense. lol. I can't count the number of times people have told Dak that he was drafted to be a career backup or how many times he has stated that he isn't comfortable on the field because he is suppose to be sitting on the sidelines.

"Judging any player on a game-by-game basis is the height of sports insanity and really needs to stop …"
That is exactly what you do with all your extrapolation. But, only if it works in your favor. I mean, shouldn't we extrapolate Dak's game today for the rest of the season since he was playing against the #1 pass defense???? So, do we judge on a per game basis or do we only do that in certain circumstances?

That game was all about Zeke, but yes, Dak played a good game and I'm happy for him … fans are way too hard on him. The guy was a low draft pick, who was drafted to be a backup … no matter what he does from this day forward, he's already a success and exceeded EVERYONE's expectations.

I'm a bigger fan of Stafford of course and he outplayed Dak in the game but Dak had a very nice bounce back game for himself and Cowboys fans should be happy today for sure!

However, NO, that game does not mean "enough said" … the guy got 181 yards of support from his running game, and 240 yards on 29 touches from Zeke (an MVP performance) and regardless, it's just one game … it cracks me up that people live game-to-game and try to make big statements about players on a game-to-game basis … if Dak throws for 175 yards in the next game fans will be killing him again … it's all utterly ridiculous.

Players should be judged on a season-by-season basis only, or at the very least a decent stretch of games, never on a mere game-by-game basis.

I saw some segment on 1st Take and Max Kellerman said that Jared Goff is now elite because he just had his first 5 TD game … I mean, seriously? That's insane.

Max also crushed Mitch Trubisky … and what happened today when Mitch got to play Tampa's atrocious pass-defense? He looked like Dan Marino and threw 6 TDs …

Judging any player on a game-by-game basis is the height of sports insanity and really needs to stop …

But … that's the way modern folks are, they are rabid team fans, get really emotional about sports and over-react to everything … many will probably say Josh Allen is a bust after he stunk it up against the Packers this week, forgetting that just last week he looked like a future sure-fire HOF'er against the Vikings … ugh, people have lost the ability to think it seems … what a sad state the world is in.

[Jameis1of1]

Good job throwing for 250+ yards today Zeke against the #1 ranked pass defense. lol. I can't count the number of times people have told Dak that he was drafted to be a career backup or how many times he has stated that he isn't comfortable on the field because he is suppose to be sitting on the sidelines.

I don't understand your statement? I said he had a good game, is a success, that fans should stop ripping him, etc … did I not praise him enough for you?

"Judging any player on a game-by-game basis is the height of sports insanity and really needs to stop …"
That is exactly what you do with all your extrapolation.

Um, except that that is not at all what I do … I waited till the end of the 2017 season to reveal the 2017 stats and compare QBs … my 45 game stats on Jameis are based on three years, not 3 games, let alone 1 game … again, you claim I say things and do things I don't do and then you argue against those non-statements … it's extremely weird.

It'd be like me saying that in your original post today, you claimed Dak is better right now than Dan Marino ever was, and then destroying that argument … I mean the whole thing is just absurd.

For goodness sakes, just read my comments in this thread, the Jameis thread, the Mariota thread, the Darnold thread, the Carr thread and the Dak thread and you will see that I ALWAYS, for every single young QB, say that fans should take a long-term view, not jump to conclusions and give these young guys their full 4-5 year rookie contracts to play out the string before deciding whether to move on or offer them a long-term extension … I am the furthest thing from a knee-jerk reaction guy, or game-by-game fan, as you'll ever find.

I'm starting to think that you got personally offended by me refuting your arguments point-by-point, so now you need to try to invent things to get upset with me about … the only problem is that you're inventing things I never said, don't say and don't believe and then arguing against those things, which just makes you look strange all over again.

But, only if it works in your favor. I mean, shouldn't we extrapolate Dak's game today for the rest of the season since he was playing against the #1 pass defense???? So, do we judge on a per game basis or do we only do that in certain circumstances?

Show me one time, just once, that I have ever, with any QB in the entire NFL, extrapolated their season stats based on ONE game … ever. You can't as I haven't done that. Dak played 6 games without Zeke last year and I did it with those as that was sensible … he played 3 games this year so the only way it could be done is based on those 3 games … again, I don't mind going back and forth with you, but at least be an honest debater and actually try to refute things I've actually said and done, rather than merely make things up and then debate against those made up things … it's not hard to debate statements people actually made, you don't need to invent things out of thin air to debate.

And again, this whole thing is just weird since I praised Dak and defend him on Twitter … however for you to say that one game is "enough said" is just the height of sports insanity … if you actually make your judgments based on a game-by-game basis, you must be on the verge of a breakdown, as you'd go from believing a guy like Trubisky is the worst QB in the NFL one week to the best QB in the NFL the next week and believing that Josh Allen is a future HOF'er one game to a complete bust the next … settle down and be logical instead.

[22emmittzone]

I'm going to take one of your statements above and see if you can understand. Your statement:

"my 45 game stats on Jameis are based on three years, not 3 games, let alone 1 game"

This is my point and you do it all the time when it benefits whatever point you want to make. You don't extrapolate for Jameis based off of 3 games, but then you do it for guys like Dak and determine he is going to have Tim Tebowish numbers at the end of the season. You don't extrapolate if it doesn't benefit your argument but do when it goes towards putting down a player based off a small sample size. So, there is one example of your extreme biases that are present in all your threads. You actually try to get rises out of people and then take subtle jabs at them in an attempt to further frustrate them. You tell people to settle down and be logical, you don't need to invent things out of thin air, which makes you look strange, that thing is absurd, etc..... That is why you have people that get pissed off, like that one guy you mentioned awhile back that went into orbit and blew up on you. Almost every paragraph contains a jab at trying to put someone down and make your psyche believe that you are superior and on the right side of the argument. It is literally impossible for you to lose an argument or debate in your mind. You believe that you are always right, even though you are not. You should learn that it is okay to be wrong and it is okay to admit that.

I will no longer be participating in any of your discussions because it is pointless to get in a debate with a person that will absolutely never admit they are wrong and constantly contradicts themselves and shows extreme biases, even when presented with statistical evidence.

You stated that game was all about Zeke and Stafford outplayed Dak in your previous post. Then you come back and state you were praising Dak. Really? Sounded more to me that Dak was an afterthought with that performance against the #1 pass defense. Yes, Stafford took Dak to the woodshed in that game throwing for the same amount of TDs and slightly better accuracy rating (insert sarcasm). Stafford's stats wouldn't have been better if they hadn't been trailing and had to throw more and got that late crap TD because the Cowboys were playing more prevent D for some reason.

Take care man and I wish you the best of luck!!! I'm out.

I don't understand your statement? I said he had a good game, is a success, that fans should stop ripping him, etc … did I not praise him enough for you?



Um, except that that is not at all what I do … I waited till the end of the 2017 season to reveal the 2017 stats and compare QBs … my 45 game stats on Jameis are based on three years, not 3 games, let alone 1 game … again, you claim I say things and do things I don't do and then you argue against those non-statements … it's extremely weird.

It'd be like me saying that in your original post today, you claimed Dak is better right now than Dan Marino ever was, and then destroying that argument … I mean the whole thing is just absurd.

For goodness sakes, just read my comments in this thread, the Jameis thread, the Mariota thread, the Darnold thread, the Carr thread and the Dak thread and you will see that I ALWAYS, for every single young QB, say that fans should take a long-term view, not jump to conclusions and give these young guys their full 4-5 year rookie contracts to play out the string before deciding whether to move on or offer them a long-term extension … I am the furthest thing from a knee-jerk reaction guy, or game-by-game fan, as you'll ever find.

I'm starting to think that you got personally offended by me refuting your arguments point-by-point, so now you need to try to invent things to get upset with me about … the only problem is that you're inventing things I never said, don't say and don't believe and then arguing against those things, which just makes you look strange all over again.



Show me one time, just once, that I have ever, with any QB in the entire NFL, extrapolated their season stats based on ONE game … ever. You can't as I haven't done that. Dak played 6 games without Zeke last year and I did it with those as that was sensible … he played 3 games this year so the only way it could be done is based on those 3 games … again, I don't mind going back and forth with you, but at least be an honest debater and actually try to refute things I've actually said and done, rather than merely make things up and then debate against those made up things … it's not hard to debate statements people actually made, you don't need to invent things out of thin air to debate.

And again, this whole thing is just weird since I praised Dak and defend him on Twitter … however for you to say that one game is "enough said" is just the height of sports insanity … if you actually make your judgments based on a game-by-game basis, you must be on the verge of a breakdown, as you'd go from believing a guy like Trubisky is the worst QB in the NFL one week to the best QB in the NFL the next week and believing that Josh Allen is a future HOF'er one game to a complete bust the next … settle down and be logical instead.

[Jameis1of1]

I'm going to take one of your statements above and see if you can understand. Your statement:

"my 45 game stats on Jameis are based on three years, not 3 games, let alone 1 game"

This is my point and you do it all the time when it benefits whatever point you want to make. You don't extrapolate for Jameis based off of 3 games, but then you do it for guys like Dak and determine he is going to have Tim Tebowish numbers at the end of the season. You don't extrapolate if it doesn't benefit your argument but do when it goes towards putting down a player based off a small sample size. So, there is one example of your extreme biases that are present in all your threads. You actually try to get rises out of people and then take subtle jabs at them in an attempt to further frustrate them. You tell people to settle down and be logical, you don't need to invent things out of thin air, which makes you look strange, that thing is absurd, etc..... That is why you have people that get pissed off, like that one guy you mentioned awhile back that went into orbit and blew up on you. Almost every paragraph contains a jab at trying to put someone down and make your psyche believe that you are superior and on the right side of the argument. It is literally impossible for you to lose an argument or debate in your mind. You believe that you are always right, even though you are not. You should learn that it is okay to be wrong and it is okay to admit that.

Good for you! You have attempted to "get me" and I appreciate your spunk. You even basically copied one of my lines word for word and used it to close your paragraph … that's super cute.

Now, in reality however, you're completely wrong about basically everything you said. You accused me of extrapolating stats based off one game, and when I said I don't do that and challenged you to prove that I did, you actually proved that I didn't and mentioned my 45 game stats on Jameis … silly.

Again, I don't extrapolate based on 1 game, and you couldn't prove I did, so you were, wrong.

As for Dak … he only played 3 games this season, so there were only 3 games to extrapolate … Dak was being talked about all over tv and everyone was saying he was in regression … I merely posted what the stats would look like if extrapolated, as the talking heads apparently don't do enough research to do that. YOU then seemed to take extreme offence to such, which is silly as I was clear that no one should give up on Dak yet … I can only imagine that you're one of those fellas who screams and throws things at the tv when the talking heads just rip Dak and don't even provide any context or stats to back up their arguments. Again, settle down …

As for debating … I don't mind losing debates. I never lose stats-based debates as they are based on hard data and not mere opinions … however I have lost debates when I was the one using an opinion … for example, I once debated with the QB expert guy I mentioned earlier about who the most under-rated QB in history was … I started with an opinion and went from there and he absolutely educated me on some of the old QB's I had never researched and I thanked him for doing so as he taught me something new.

So … you simply don't know me … and you take way too much personal offense to a fun sports debate … calm down.

I will no longer be participating in any of your discussions because it is pointless to get in a debate with a person that will absolutely never admit they are wrong and constantly contradicts themselves and shows extreme biases, even when presented with statistical evidence.

Sure, you do that … anyone reading this thread or the other one will know that is not the case. If anyone can prove anything I've ever said was wrong with actual statistical evidence, I happily recant my statements and position. I did it with the debate I mentioned above and am happy to do it in any other debate. YOU however are not someone that even uses stats for the most part, and when you have used them, you've been wrong (like when you mentioned the defensive rankings of three teams and were wrong all three times … I mean it's hard to be wrong on all three statements but you were) or didn't understand the stats you were even referencing (such as when you used QBR twice but in both occasions didn't even know what QBR was and were actually quoting passer rating stats).

You stated that game was all about Zeke and Stafford outplayed Dak in your previous post. Then you come back and state you were praising Dak. Really?

Yes, really? I understand you're a Dak fan and seem to take personal offense that I didn't praise him even more, but one can praise a QB while also acknowledging one of hos teammates and the opposing QB played better. There have been games when Mike Evans played far better than Jameis AND when the opposing team's QB outplayed Jameis but Jameis still deserved praise for the game in general … the same can be said about every QB at one time or another and that is what I said about Dak's game today ...

Sounded more to me that Dak was an afterthought with that performance against the #1 pass defense. Yes, Stafford took Dak to the woodshed in that game throwing for the same amount of TDs and slightly better accuracy rating (insert sarcasm). Stafford's stats wouldn't have been better if they hadn't been trailing and had to throw more and got that late crap TD because the Cowboys were playing more prevent D for some reason.

You are a funny guy ...

Take care man and I wish you the best of luck!!! I'm out.

Okay, that's your call, but just so you know, I'm always happy to go back and forth with you on any topic and I'm next to impossible to offend personally, so I won't run away, even if you turn into an utter troll and act crazy (and I'm saying this because I do NOT think you've done either to date, but some have and I'll even reply to them when they pop up) … I wish you nothing but the best as well and appreciate your comments, even when I don't agree with them. Peace!

[22emmittzone]

Not taking it personally. Not sure why you keep saying that. It just really isn't enjoyable to debate with someone who is never wrong and chooses to ignore that statistical facts presented to them. Dak did play against the #1 top ranked pass defense today. FACT! That is not an incorrect statistical statement. Also, at the time the Cowboys played the teams they have played, they were ranked in the Top 5 for overall defense. So, you can continue to act like those are errors, but they aren't. They are facts

I don't believe in extrapolation. I prefer facts and stats! If you want to extrapolate, then you need to do it for all. You want to do it for Dak to call him Tebow, then you need to accept it for Winston if that is the method you use and you do. So, based off of extrapolation, Winston is going to 24 TDs and 48 INTs based off of his 1 half of play. Ridiculous right???? ABSOLUTELY because neither of those will ever happen. The point is, do it for all or don't do it at all.

Would be happy to continue discussions if you could simply accept that is absolutely what you do. But, you won't. Not personal again. Take care!

Good for you! You have attempted to "get me" and I appreciate your spunk. You even basically copied one of my lines word for word and used it to close your paragraph … that's super cute.

Now, in reality however, you're completely wrong about basically everything you said. You accused me of extrapolating stats based off one game, and when I said I don't do that and challenged you to prove that I did, you actually proved that I didn't and mentioned my 45 game stats on Jameis … silly.

Again, I don't extrapolate based on 1 game, and you couldn't prove I did, so you were, wrong.

As for Dak … he only played 3 games this season, so there were only 3 games to extrapolate … Dak was being talked about all over tv and everyone was saying he was in regression … I merely posted what the stats would look like if extrapolated, as the talking heads apparently don't do enough research to do that. YOU then seemed to take extreme offence to such, which is silly as I was clear that no one should give up on Dak yet … I can only imagine that you're one of those fellas who screams and throws things at the tv when the talking heads just rip Dak and don't even provide any context or stats to back up their arguments. Again, settle down …

As for debating … I don't mind losing debates. I never lose stats-based debates as they are based on hard data and not mere opinions … however I have lost debates when I was the one using an opinion … for example, I once debated with the QB expert guy I mentioned earlier about who the most under-rated QB in history was … I started with an opinion and went from there and he absolutely educated me on some of the old QB's I had never researched and I thanked him for doing so as he taught me something new.

So … you simply don't know me … and you take way too much personal offense to a fun sports debate … calm down.



Sure, you do that … anyone reading this thread or the other one will know that is not the case. If anyone can prove anything I've ever said was wrong with actual statistical evidence, I happily recant my statements and position. I did it with the debate I mentioned above and am happy to do it in any other debate. YOU however are not someone that even uses stats for the most part, and when you have used them, you've been wrong (like when you mentioned the defensive rankings of three teams and were wrong all three times … I mean it's hard to be wrong on all three statements but you were) or didn't understand the stats you were even referencing (such as when you used QBR twice but in both occasions didn't even know what QBR was and were actually quoting passer rating stats).



Yes, really? I understand you're a Dak fan and seem to take personal offense that I didn't praise him even more, but one can praise a QB while also acknowledging one of hos teammates and the opposing QB played better. There have been games when Mike Evans played far better than Jameis AND when the opposing team's QB outplayed Jameis but Jameis still deserved praise for the game in general … the same can be said about every QB at one time or another and that is what I said about Dak's game today ...



You are a funny guy ...



Okay, that's your call, but just so you know, I'm always happy to go back and forth with you on any topic and I'm next to impossible to offend personally, so I won't run away, even if you turn into an utter troll and act crazy (and I'm saying this because I do NOT think you've done either to date, but some have and I'll even reply to them when they pop up) … I wish you nothing but the best as well and appreciate your comments, even when I don't agree with them. Peace!

[Jameis1of1]

Not taking it personally. Not sure why you keep saying that. It just really isn't enjoyable to debate with someone who is never wrong and chooses to ignore that statistical facts presented to them.

Again, the statistical facts you presented to me were WRONG and I refuted them. If you ever present accurate statistical facts, I'll happily accept them, but it took me five minutes to see that all 3 defenses you mentioned were not ranked where you said they were … I appreciate the use of stats but they have to be accurate and yours were not.

Dak did play against the #1 top ranked pass defense today. FACT! That is not an incorrect statistical statement.

I'll take your word for it as I don't have the through 3 week stats … the ones I'm looking at now are through the first 4 weeks and the Jaguars are #1 in pass yards allowed and Lions are #3, while the Jaguars are also #1 in TD passes allowed and the Lions are tied for #15 in the league … as for pas completion against, the Ravens are #1, while the Jaguars are #5 … the Lions are all the way down at #17 … and perhaps the best stat, passer rating against, the Ravens again are #1 and the Jaguars are #7 … the Lions are all the way down at #26!

So … again … your stat may be wrong, depending on what you mean by the #1 pass defense, as the Lions are nowhere near #1 in the most important categories … and if you recall week 1, Sam Darnold making his first start ever, looked like a star while he's looked like a green rookie ever since …

Honestly, I don't think anyone thinks the Lions are the #1 pass defense, nor anywhere near as good as the Ravens or Jags …

Also, at the time the Cowboys played the teams they have played, they were ranked in the Top 5 for overall defense. So, you can continue to act like those are errors, but they aren't. They are facts

No, that is not true, in fact, it's an outright lie that I already refuted.

I don't believe in extrapolation. I prefer facts and stats!

Um, you do realize that extrapolation is based on the fact that stats were accumulated to-date, right?

If you want to extrapolate, then you need to do it for all. You want to do it for Dak to call him Tebow, then you need to accept it for Winston if that is the method you use and you do. So, based off of extrapolation, Winston is going to 24 TDs and 48 INTs based off of his 1 half of play. Ridiculous right???? ABSOLUTELY because neither of those will ever happen. The point is, do it for all or don't do it at all.

Again, I've never extrapolated based on one game, so your above paragraph is silly … by the way, Jameis would have a bad TD/INT ratio if you extrapolated his one half of football so far but he'd likely also lead the NFL in both completion % and QBR … so yes, it would be absurd to extrapolate a mere half of football, which I have never done, which is why your paragraph is senseless.

I extrapolated Dak's 2018 stats based on ALL THE GAMES Dak had played in 2018 … that is relevant and you have no reason to complain about such at all.

Extrapolation is not an actual prediction of how one's stats will end up, it is actually more so a great way to see how good or bad one has been over a stretch of games. For example if one extrapolates Mahomes stats it will be even more clear how insanely awesome he's been so far in 2018, but no one actually expects him to end up with those exact extrapolated stats.

Would be happy to continue discussions if you could simply accept that is absolutely what you do. But, you won't. Not personal again. Take care!

Again, any time you can quote a stat properly, I'm all for it, but don't expect to pass off an erroneous stat to me as I will call you out on it … also, you know full well I've never extrapolated a season based on one game, yet claim I have … that's a lie … I'm always up for debating, but don't appreciate outright lying ...