Beckett Standards - Is it just me? Take a look at this.

[WinWithoutaKnife]

I've been a true blue BGS supporter since the day they started grading cards, despite feeling a little strange about the conflict of interest.

I've experienced some disappointments when using the service, thinking a 9 was destined to be a 9.5. I'm sure we've all been there.

But what I'm seeing now is WAY too many examples of OVERGRADED cards. In the past year, I can't tell you how many Connor and Auston Young Guns I've seen (in an already flooded market) exhibiting obvious defects but chilling out in a 9.5 case.

Here's a Barzal SP I bought recently on ebay. The seller did a good job masking just how awful this grading was. And here I am, with a 9.5 graded card that looks a lot worse than my RAW Barzal SPs. And no recourse, since the seller delivered on what he advertised.

"Gem Mint" is supposed to indicate a card that is beyond mint to the naked eye.

This is so, so disappointing. Take a gander at some new standards.

[MR.M's Cards]

Im not into the whole grading scene, I read the thread tittle and thought we were gonna dump on beckett card pricing. But to me that is just plain terrible, there is no way you can consider that card mint. Not sure why someone would even grade that?

[WinWithoutaKnife]

I know a lot of people are rubbed the wrong way by grading. But the main function it was created for was to assure potential online buyers of the grade of the card they are buying, putting that into the hands of a 3rd party "professional" instead of trusting highly subjective grades from sellers. But that main function is now eroding. Not only are questionably graded cards popping up, but now you have to be very aware of scans/photos. I'm not going to necessarily accuse the seller of this card of doing anything on purpose, but the photo he provided was angled from the top with a white background, making it difficult to see details.

As for your question why would anyone grade this? I think the answer is simple. If you have a connection of some sort, why not grade literally everything and anything. I know that is a sinister concept, but I have no idea what else to think.

[canucksfan007]

Is that a 9.0 corner?

The Pokemon market is ahead of their time with how they feel about graded cards. The moto they use is - Dont buy the slab, buy the card.

I have been dealing with high end WOTC PSA stuff, and no one takes the cards grade as final value. Weak 9s, Strong 9s ...... Strong 10s, Weak 10s .... all demand different premiums.

We havent really seen the same thing in the Hockey market, but not too long ago the term "True Gem" actually started adding values to graded cards, when before a "True Gem" was usually overlooked ( unless you could sell a 10 / 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 being close to a BGS 10 )

The Hockey market has finally caught up a bit now, and you will see the average BGS 9.5 card have 3-4 separate prices.

The lowest being:
- BGS 9.5 ( 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0 )

Middle Tier:
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0 )
- BGS 9.5 ( 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 ) - the "True Gem" - I hate this term =P

The Highest Tier:
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 )
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 )

While that corner looks weak, if that Barzal is something like a 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0, or even possibly has a 10 somewhere in there, I can see the overall grade still being a 9.5

[WinWithoutaKnife]

Everything you're saying is spot on. However... and I say this with 25 years of collecting under my belt, and a lot of grading orders through SGC, Beckett and PSA... I have people who come to me for grading advice/assessments all the time. That corner should make the overall corner grade an 8.5 at best. And therefore, it should be no more than a BGS 9 (Subs are 9.5x3 and 9 for corners, but if you look closely, the edge is also affected.) My assessment: this should be a 9.5/9.5/9/8.5 Overall 9.
The seller made no note (and why should he?) and the picture had a white background that masked the damage. I told him I was upset and confused as to how to leave feedback. He threatened to post something about me on Facebook in response. So, it is what it is
This hobby is getting rough

[canucksfan007]

Ive also found when submitting in larger batches, BGS seems to be a lot more lenient.

I usually sub with the locals here in Vancouver every few months, and we get a good 500+ cards together under 1 order and 1 name. We've been doing this for awhile, and have found some of us are getting some pretty favorable grades.

Was it just graders being a little bit sloppy or looking over the cards too fast? Is Beckett just so backed up that they dont really take the time to fully look over certain cards ( I would assume lots of YGs get this treatment )
Or is it that Beckett recognizes the name, and seeing that we submit quite a lot of cards and quite frequently, do they want to keep repeat larger customers happy? Seems like good business to me.

I know ive personally submitted cards that were surefire 9.0s, and theyve come back 9.5s

[Savard18]

Well, if the corners got an 8 and the rest of the subs were 10's that would make the card a 9.5..

This is why I don't like graded cards, I don't buy them and I won't get them graded... Grades are subjective, heck the attributes are subjective... I mean would you rather have a slightly OC card, say 55/45 with 4 razor sharp corners or a card with a noticeably dinged corner and perfect centering?

There should be a 5th attribute, they can call it "presentation"... There are plenty of cards out there with flaws that aren't noticeable which you would overlook on first glance that don't affect the overall appearance of a card such as surface or edges, and then there are some attributes that stick out like a sore thumb such as corners and centering.. I mean at the very least they should place more scrutiny on attributes that affect that specific card design than they do cards in general... Chips on the edge of a card with a black border will be far more noticeable than a card with a white border, but if you're grading a card the color of the border is moot because the cards could have the same amount of border chipping and if just happens you notice it more with a black border..

Vintage OPC cards are a perfect example. Vintage OPC cards look like they were cut with a hacksaw - there is no such thing as a vintage OPC card with "perfect 10" edges, however Topps cards can have perfect edges, so what then? so you overlook the edges of the OPC card if it looks "good enough" while you apply scrutiny to the edges of the Topps card?.. I suppose in that case Topps cards are already at a disadvantage when submitted.

So yea, this is why I'm not the biggest fan of graded cards. It's just too subjective..

I'm not saying grading doesn't have it's virtues - it does but I bet there are few graders out there that take all factors of a card into account...

Also grading from a value perspective is risky business, because sometimes a raw card can be more valuable than a graded card.. A card can present nicely and look gem but still be flawed and when those unnoticeable flaws are exposed it can cut the value of a card in half. So a raw card that looks gem to the naked eye could turn out to be a 8.5 under the microscope instead of the 9.5 it appears to be - and we all know the difference in value between an 9.5 and an 8.5 is significant.. I mean a card that sells for $100.00 in 9.5 would only sell for perhaps $25-30 graded 8.5, then say you paid $50 for the card thinking you got a 9.5 or a gem and it comes back an 8.5 - now you're out $25 bucks + grading fees and at the end of the day the card is just beautiful but it happens to have a flaw you would need a magnifying glass to find... A card you could have gotten your money back on but now it's slabbed and stamped "lemon"....

Not that it's a bad thing to know everything about a card or what you're buying but a card isn't a CAR - a card is a piece of art. If you cant see what's wrong with the card yourself then there is nothing wrong with it.

So yea, I have my concerns with professional grading - it has it's pros and cons, but personally if a is aesthetically pleasing then that's good enough for me. I don't need a second opinion or a certification telling me the card is "suitable"...

[Savard18]

Is that a 9.0 corner?

The Pokemon market is ahead of their time with how they feel about graded cards. The moto they use is - Dont buy the slab, buy the card.

I have been dealing with high end WOTC PSA stuff, and no one takes the cards grade as final value. Weak 9s, Strong 9s ...... Strong 10s, Weak 10s .... all demand different premiums.

We havent really seen the same thing in the Hockey market, but not too long ago the term "True Gem" actually started adding values to graded cards, when before a "True Gem" was usually overlooked ( unless you could sell a 10 / 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 being close to a BGS 10 )

The Hockey market has finally caught up a bit now, and you will see the average BGS 9.5 card have 3-4 separate prices.

The lowest being:
- BGS 9.5 ( 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0 )

Middle Tier:
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0 )
- BGS 9.5 ( 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 ) - the "True Gem" - I hate this term =P

The Highest Tier:
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 )
- BGS 9.5 ( 10 / 10 / 9.5 / 9.5 )

While that corner looks weak, if that Barzal is something like a 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.5 / 9.0, or even possibly has a 10 somewhere in there, I can see the overall grade still being a 9.5

Just as long as the subs add to 38 you get a 9.5..

Obviously all we have is a photo, but factoring that is a modern card I would give that corner an 8..

IMO, each corner should be graded individually ..

Say each corner is as follows: 10, 9.5, 8.0, 10 - the overall grade on the corners would be 9.375.

Professional graders should do that with all attributes of a card - grade every "sub attribute" of an attribute individually then average it out instead of assessing a grade based on the 4 major factors; corners, edges, centering and surface. Give every corner, edge, centering - top to bottom and left to right and surface front and back.

4 edges, 4 corners, 2 centering (top to bottom, left to right) and 2 surfaces... That's 12 factors which will give you a lot more accurate of a grade.

[clvc0017]

I’m sorry if this comes off harsh, but Beckett is an absolute scam.

Their pricing guide has zero relevance in what cards actually sell for.
I’ve seen other cards both online and in person with corners (not just one, multiple) like this Barzal you posted, that also grade at a 9 or 9.5.
I’ve even seen posts where someone grades a serial numbered card, cracks the slab, re-grades it and it comes back with a higher grade. Something like that is inexcusable.
Raw card reviews grading higher than “actual” reviews after sending in the grade for slabbed grading.

I could keep rambling on, but when I see stuff like this posted, it makes me ask why people even use Beckett anymore for grading. My personal collection has zero graded cards and I plan to keep it that way. I don’t need to spend my money to have someone tell me something I can see with my own eyes!

[canucksfan007]

I’m sorry if this comes off harsh, but Beckett is an absolute scam.

Their pricing guide has zero relevance in what cards actually sell for.
I’ve seen other cards both online and in person with corners (not just one, multiple) like this Barzal you posted, that also grade at a 9 or 9.5.
I’ve even seen posts where someone grades a serial numbered card, cracks the slab, re-grades it and it comes back with a higher grade. Something like that is inexcusable.
Raw card reviews grading higher than “actual” reviews after sending in the grade for slabbed grading.

I could keep rambling on, but when I see stuff like this posted, it makes me ask why people even use Beckett anymore for grading. My personal collection has zero graded cards and I plan to keep it that way. I don’t need to spend my money to have someone tell me something I can see with my own eyes!

The Beckett Guide is an absolute scan. To think they are able to keep up with the amount of cards that come out today, not to mention the fluctuation of previous years, is absurd unless they were to sink millions of dollars a year into keeping it as up to date as possible. Of course they wont do that, and of course we dont expect them to, its just those few people who seem to think the Beckett is the Bible of cards.

You seem to not realize that the cards are not all looked at by the same grader. There is human error and personal opinion based on grading cards.

Cracking to re-grade is very common in every sport / TCG .... and happens with every grading company. Its not that inexcusable ......

Raw card review - A quicker service used mainly at events to get your card assessed, and have a quick review. The actual grade is not 100% to cross over to a real slabbed BGS case.

"I don’t need to spend my money to have someone tell me something I can see with my own eyes!"
- Unfortunately your eyes in the hobby do not really matter if you want to sell your cards. People have their own evaluations on any/every card. Part of my job is to evaluate condition and assess the overall grade of "mint" or not. The 3 of us there, who probably have a combined 50+ years in the hobby, can all see different things. Sure, we are not professional graders, but it just shows what different people are able to pick up. Weather you like them or not, PSA and BGS are the 2 most reputable and established grading companies, no other company even comes close.