Canadian Women's Hockey League going out of business

[doniceage]

The Canadian Women's Hockey League's abrupt decision to cease operations leaves North America with one pro league, and opens questions regarding the future of the women's sport on both sides of the border.

"Unfortunately, while the on-ice hockey is exceptional, the business model has proven to be economically unsustainable," the CWHL said in a statement on Sunday.

The decision to shutter the six-team Canadian-based league came a week after a record 175,000 TV viewers tuned in to watch the Clarkson Cup championship game. And it comes four days before the women's world championships are set to begin in Espoo, Finland.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/a...f-13730060.php

[craigswain]

Sad to see this, I've always enjoyed watching the women's game. I watched the GB women beat Spain just a few hours ago... Good match!

[30ranfordfan]

It's too bad.... but I've heard some talk of this lately - and apparently there were plenty of games where the 40 players @ the game represented a larger number of people than the number of fans who showed up to watch. Less than two dozen people showing up to watch games in Toronto was a problem.

It's an expensive sport to run (i.e. costs associated with icing a team) even before you pay the players.... and having a lone team in Western Canada (Calgary) inflates travel costs - and putting a team in China just balloons them even more.

League was basically paid for by sponsors, who finally pulled the plug because there isn't enough eyeballs on it.



Honestly, I'm not sure what the solution is. There's mass interest in Women's hockey once every four years.... when the Olympics are not on, I'm not sure how you convince the masses that they should care. If nobody watches it, the only way these leagues can survive is if someone is willing to run them at a loss, perpetually, in the name of "growing the game".

[creasecollector]

Not sure what the NWHL's numbers are like for attendence and all of that, but they have picked up the teams in Toronto and Montreal (not sure if the team names will stay the same), so that's good at least.

I would love to see the Women's game grow for sure, but it's definitely a hard sell to a lot of people for sure. I beleive the NHL has put up more financial backing towards the NWHL, now that they are the only professional women's hockey league in North America now. This should help of course, but the main thing is how many people watch it. if the NHL could help promote the game alongside their league, that would be a big step too. Though I'm not sure if they'd be game for that, unless in the future they form somesort of NHL/NWHL partnership deal (or become a huge stakeholder in the league) to grow hockey as a whole.

Women's hockey has come a long way, and I beleive they still will continue to push forward and continue to grow, even with this sad news about the CWHL.

[30ranfordfan]

Not sure what the NWHL's numbers are like for attendence and all of that, but they have picked up the teams in Toronto and Montreal (not sure if the team names will stay the same), so that's good at least.

I would love to see the Women's game grow for sure, but it's definitely a hard sell to a lot of people for sure. I beleive the NHL has put up more financial backing towards the NWHL, now that they are the only professional women's hockey league in North America now. This should help of course, but the main thing is how many people watch it. if the NHL could help promote the game alongside their league, that would be a big step too. Though I'm not sure if they'd be game for that, unless in the future they form somesort of NHL/NWHL partnership deal (or become a huge stakeholder in the league) to grow hockey as a whole.

Women's hockey has come a long way, and I beleive they still will continue to push forward and continue to grow, even with this sad news about the CWHL.

The NHL is funny. They actually just doubled their annual donation to the NWHL, increasing it to $100k! (they used to give $50k to each league, so they're just giving the whole thing to one league now).

From a "help grow the game" initiate, the NHL probably should be doing more to help. They could give out 20x that money (a cool $2m) and it would be nothing for the league.

I heard some speculation that the NHL will ultimately step in and help - but not until the NWHL is ready to go under. For the NHL to get involved with bigger dollars, and actually help promote that league - they'll want total control, not a limited partnership.

[creasecollector]

The NHL is funny. They actually just doubled their annual donation to the NWHL, increasing it to $100k! (they used to give $50k to each league, so they're just giving the whole thing to one league now).

From a "help grow the game" initiate, the NHL probably should be doing more to help. They could give out 20x that money (a cool $2m) and it would be nothing for the league.

I heard some speculation that the NHL will ultimately step in and help - but not until the NWHL is ready to go under. For the NHL to get involved with bigger dollars, and actually help promote that league - they'll want total control, not a limited partnership.

Oh for sure, that's what I was getting at in my initial post. I think the NHL will eventually do something big for the NWHL, but it'll probably come at a time when it makes the most sense (financially) for them. Help to grow the women's game would be great no strings attached, but if we're being real, the NHL is going to want to only do that when it's best for them and they own that show.

[Savard18]

Well, there are solutions.. I propose teams in major cities, Chicago, Toronto, NY etc should sponsor NWHL teams, and when you buy a ticket to the NHL club, you get a free ticket to see the woman's club (basically a double feature). Maybe the women can play in the afternoon on a weekend, and you can follow that game up with the regularly scheduled NHL game in the evening?

The NWHL wasn't going to make it on their own, there just isn't much interest in seeing the women play on their own. Few are going to go out of their way to catch a game or out of their way to buy a ticket, however it you pair a womens game with an NHL game you would probably draw more fans... It would basically be like a double header in baseball.... You buy your NHL ticket and it's good for both the NWHL game and the NHL game..

I mean I wouldn't go out of my way to catch a womans game, however I would probably go if the NHL team was playing in the evening and the womans team was playing in the afternoon... I'd make a day out of it, why not?

That's how you promote the NWHL..

Also, the NWHL would need TV time.... But what else is playing on the sports channels on the weekends during the winter that local networks have the rights to air?... All the college games are on major networks not your local sports channels... Or if college sports does conflict with the NWHL then only air games that don't...

I mean you have to advertise your product...

However the reality is that womens hockey isn't nearly as entertaining as the NHL - at least not to your casual fan. I would say your casual fans are the majority at any NHL game here in the states. They're hockey fans but they're not "hockey nuts"... They'll watch a game if it's on TV and will go to a game if they have the opportunity, but they're not going out of their way to go see minor league teams because they want the superior NHL product..

I don't think there was much thought put into the NWHL, I think they did it just to do it and assumed people would support these teams just because they're women and that's the "PC" thing to do or something.. Or they created the league more for political reasons than hockey reasons, and I'm sure that was part of it..

IDK, I think my idea is good.. Try the league again but this time pair the womens teams up with NHL clubs and have weekend doubleheaders. I mean have the Blackhawks and the Ladyhawks or the LadyBlackhawks, they can wear the same uniforms and everything....

[30ranfordfan]

Well, there are solutions.. I propose teams in major cities, Chicago, Toronto, NY etc should sponsor NWHL teams, and when you buy a ticket to the NHL club, you get a free ticket to see the woman's club (basically a double feature). Maybe the women can play in the afternoon on a weekend, and you can follow that game up with the regularly scheduled NHL game in the evening?

The NWHL wasn't going to make it on their own, there just isn't much interest in seeing the women play on their own. Few are going to go out of their way to catch a game or out of their way to buy a ticket, however it you pair a womens game with an NHL game you would probably draw more fans... It would basically be like a double header in baseball.... You buy your NHL ticket and it's good for both the NWHL game and the NHL game..

I mean I wouldn't go out of my way to catch a womans game, however I would probably go if the NHL team was playing in the evening and the womans team was playing in the afternoon... I'd make a day out of it, why not?

That's how you promote the NWHL..

Also, the NWHL would need TV time.... But what else is playing on the sports channels on the weekends during the winter that local networks have the rights to air?... All the college games are on major networks not your local sports channels... Or if college sports does conflict with the NWHL then only air games that don't...

I mean you have to advertise your product...

However the reality is that womens hockey isn't nearly as entertaining as the NHL - at least not to your casual fan. I would say your casual fans are the majority at any NHL game here in the states. They're hockey fans but they're not "hockey nuts"... They'll watch a game if it's on TV and will go to a game if they have the opportunity, but they're not going out of their way to go see minor league teams because they want the superior NHL product..

I don't think there was much thought put into the NWHL, I think they did it just to do it and assumed people would support these teams just because they're women and that's the "PC" thing to do or something.. Or they created the league more for political reasons than hockey reasons, and I'm sure that was part of it..

IDK, I think my idea is good.. Try the league again but this time pair the womens teams up with NHL clubs and have weekend doubleheaders. I mean have the Blackhawks and the Ladyhawks or the LadyBlackhawks, they can wear the same uniforms and everything....

I think the NHL working with the NWHL, and helping out with some kind of cross-promotion, is the only way it will ever (sort of) succeed.

To tie them in directly with NHL clubs though - I don't think it would work:

1. They can not play in NHL buildings, if there is no crowd to justify it. Costs too much

2. Even if you could justify using the larger rinks: the double headers only work, if someone is willing to spend 6+ hours in the building.

Let's say it's a Saturday, and the Blackhawks are at home for a 7:00 PM start. Are you having the women play at 1:00 or at 4:00 ? (in baseball terms... is this a "true" double header where one ticket gets you both games... or a day/night split?)

If it's the 1:00 / 7:00 - Quite frankly, I don't think many would bother. If it's the 4:00 / 7:00 - You'd probably get a few people showing up with 10 mins left in the third. Most would rather go somewhere for dinner than sit through the extra game.

TV time? What channel is going to air their games (outside of MAYBE a 1-game Championship, which is not how they do it). If you're going to put it on TV, someone needs to be paying for adds.

In Canada,in particular, the TV numbers are HUGE when the Olympics are on. That lead to good sponsorship, plus the Chinese government subsiding travel costs (to get a team in China). Since they have a tough time selling tickets... most those sponsors walked away. Scotia Bank (I guess?) is cool with tossing some money their way.. the "right thing to do" (if you will) but not if NOBODY sees their adds.

IMO, what they need to do (at least for the foreseeable future) is limit the size of the league to cities where they can ride a bus to get to. The NWHL has a team in Minnesota - that's already a little too far (I assume they fly). Four of the existing team (NJ, BOS, BUF, MIN) do have "NHL partners" (Connecticut does not). They'll be adding Toronto & Montreal.... I dunno. Get the Rangers (by virtue of being affiliated with the Hartford Wolf Pack) to partner up with Connecticut - and try and have the NHL (or AHL) marketing departments GIVE AWAY tickets to their season ticket holders... and maybe you can get more people in the stands?

I will close with this: I'm 39 years old. I do not believe I will see the day when a woman's professional hockey league is actually a financially viable thing to run. I believe we'll see a stable league in the not-too-distant future... that the NHL (basically) owns, and loses a bit of money on.

It took the WNBA nearly 20 years to finally start operating the black.... and still they're BARLEY in the black.

[Savard18]

I think the NHL working with the NWHL, and helping out with some kind of cross-promotion, is the only way it will ever (sort of) succeed.

To tie them in directly with NHL clubs though - I don't think it would work:

1. They can not play in NHL buildings, if there is no crowd to justify it. Costs too much

2. Even if you could justify using the larger rinks: the double headers only work, if someone is willing to spend 6+ hours in the building.

Let's say it's a Saturday, and the Blackhawks are at home for a 7:00 PM start. Are you having the women play at 1:00 or at 4:00 ? (in baseball terms... is this a "true" double header where one ticket gets you both games... or a day/night split?)

If it's the 1:00 / 7:00 - Quite frankly, I don't think many would bother. If it's the 4:00 / 7:00 - You'd probably get a few people showing up with 10 mins left in the third. Most would rather go somewhere for dinner than sit through the extra game.

TV time? What channel is going to air their games (outside of MAYBE a 1-game Championship, which is not how they do it). If you're going to put it on TV, someone needs to be paying for adds.

In Canada,in particular, the TV numbers are HUGE when the Olympics are on. That lead to good sponsorship, plus the Chinese government subsiding travel costs (to get a team in China). Since they have a tough time selling tickets... most those sponsors walked away. Scotia Bank (I guess?) is cool with tossing some money their way.. the "right thing to do" (if you will) but not if NOBODY sees their adds.

IMO, what they need to do (at least for the foreseeable future) is limit the size of the league to cities where they can ride a bus to get to. The NWHL has a team in Minnesota - that's already a little too far (I assume they fly). Four of the existing team (NJ, BOS, BUF, MIN) do have "NHL partners" (Connecticut does not). They'll be adding Toronto & Montreal.... I dunno. Get the Rangers (by virtue of being affiliated with the Hartford Wolf Pack) to partner up with Connecticut - and try and have the NHL (or AHL) marketing departments GIVE AWAY tickets to their season ticket holders... and maybe you can get more people in the stands?

I will close with this: I'm 39 years old. I do not believe I will see the day when a woman's professional hockey league is actually a financially viable thing to run. I believe we'll see a stable league in the not-too-distant future... that the NHL (basically) owns, and loses a bit of money on.

It took the WNBA nearly 20 years to finally start operating the black.... and still they're BARLEY in the black.

Thats why you do a day game and a night game..

You go see the womens game and go out for dinner and you catch the NHL game..

The WNHL went wrong thinking they could compete with the NHL and that was just stupid...

Women's hockey has potential but it needs to be pushed the right way..

[30ranfordfan]

I don't think they ever thought they were 'competing' with the NHL.

The Canadian league (with a team in the China) is the one that folded. The American one is still going (and will add Canadian teams).

I live about 60 miles away from Toronto. If I was going to a Leaf game at 7:00, and you offered me free tickets to a woman's game at 1:00 - so the plan for the day could now be "game at 1, dinner, game at 7": Honestly, I would never do that. Wouldn't even consider it. I'd much prefer to leave home at 4:00, get into this city, have something to eat... and go to the single game.

I suspect that people who live in downtown - so the travel time isn't a thing - still wouldn't be any different.

The mistake that both leagues make is assuming that big TV numbers for the Olympics translates into people wanting to go to league games.

What I think would help them out - push the games on kids. Offer a local hockey team (especially girls hockey teams) tickets for next-to-nothing. Say the team is 15 kids + 3 coaches, that's 18 people. Offer them 36 tickets for $100. Want more tickets? (Both parents coming? Siblings? Friends?) off them extra seats for $2 each.

You'd get people in the stands, you'd sell concessions, and you'd get some interest.

Thats why you do a day game and a night game..

You go see the womens game and go out for dinner and you catch the NHL game..

The WNHL went wrong thinking they could compete with the NHL and that was just stupid...

Women's hockey has potential but it needs to be pushed the right way..