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  1. #11




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    It's money, and volume.

    Upper Deck would be asking him to sign 1000s of autographs.

    Look at Matt Barzal's Autographs in 2016-17 (when he got Rookie Cards. I picked him because he was rookie of the year last season).

    https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/...rchleagueid/0/

    If you add up the serial numbers, he signed 5,800 cards! That's not including 11 more non-serial numbered cards (some of which are likely rare, like the SP Authentic Black FWA... others are very plentiful, like OPC Platinum).

    Also consider that they typically sign more stickers than UD is going to use that year, so they've got a supply for the following season. It's why you see autographed cards of players that have barley played in 3 years make their way into sets. (often refereed to as a "sticker dump"). I don't think I'm being crazy, suggesting that Barzal probably signed 7,500 autographs for UD for the 16-17 season.... and he played all of 2 games that year.

    They were likely paying him no more than $3 per auto (rookies, typically don't get a lot). Why do you think Eichel, Patrick, & Hischerer signed exclusives with Leaf?? UD was willing to pay big bucks for McDavid... but he's the exception to the rule. Leaf offers something WAY out of whack with what UD pays a normal top prospect, so UD wouldn't match.

    Now: If Barzal was getting $3 an auto, and signed 7,500 of them, in a season when he only played 2 NHL games... that was probably a really nice deal for him. He would have had his signing bonus in the bank, but he wouldn't have been making much else. I think they might have upped the OHL stipends to $100 /2k. I have zero clue what his family's finances are like - but at that point in time, I bet the extra money was welcomed.

    Dahlin? He was playing pro in Sweden before being drafted, so he would have already earned a real pay cheque. He's also playing in the NHL (granted, that's the same for a lot of rookies that do sign). If Dahlin really finds the whole process to be a pain in the butt, and doesn't really want to do it.... an extra $25k (which is probably more than UD would have been paying him) when he's making about a million, before bonuses, isn't exactly enough to sway him.

    .... and UD has to be careful. If Dhalin says "I was the #1 pick. I want $10 per auto" - you can be sure that will set a precedent for more guys. Does the #2 pick get the same as the #240 pick still?

    Having said all of that...... I expect they will get him to sign for a few sets.

    This is a very interesting topic, because as I have pointed out I took a 20 years hiatus from collecting and have only been back for around 2 years now and when I left, autographs being inserted into packs were a profoundly rare thing - and now that I'm back it seems every kid is signing 5,000-10,000 autographs just to be inserted into various packs of cards.... It really is surreal to me....

    But think about how much time it would actually take to sign 10,000 autographs for example - I mean counting to 10,000 wouldn't be fun at all... And on top of that these guys have other things to do like practice, conditioning, personal appearances (where they sign more autographs) and not to mention personal lives and hobbies of their own like anyone else, and you would have to think that you can only sign X amount of cards in one sitting before it starts screwing with your wrist, so I would assume they do it in moderation - but here is the kicker.... I actually watched a short documentary on this topic, well actually a couple because I'm subscribed to this former pro baseball player Matt Antonelli on youtube and he discussed this very topic in one of his videos and according to him he had to sign like 5,000 cards in the presence of a representative of card company and he said it took a VERY LONG TIME - And he was only a rookie at the time, a high pick probably on the level of Barzal ... Now Imagine what some of these higher profile players go though?

    I suppose my point is that I don't believe Dahlin isn't signing auto's because it's hard or anything or they're not paying him enough ... There could be a million reasons why.... Maybe he's a private guy, maybe he's difficult to find in the summer when he has time because he's in Sweden and is just trying to enjoy his time?? who knows.... Or maybe he just hasn't signed with a card manufacturer yet.... The kids still young. I mean I would assume if you're a stud hockey player in North America - especially Canada - you probably have all kinds of exclusive offers being tossed at you by the time you're 15 or 16 and maybe Dalhin was protected from that...... Of course this is all speculation .....I'm sure "off the record" if someone asked him he would probably give us an honest answer, lol.....

    If It matters I'm half Swedish myself and grew up in a Swedish culture (not in Sweden or anything) but I am related to Swedes from Sweden and I find them interesting because Swedes are a bit more "modest" or perhaps "humble" so I wouldn't be shocked if signing hockey cards is the last thing on Dahlin's mind....

    Here is a question..... How many Swedes DO have deals with Upper Deck or whatever the company may be to sign hockey cards???

  2. #12
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    This is a very interesting topic, because as I have pointed out I took a 20 years hiatus from collecting and have only been back for around 2 years now and when I left, autographs being inserted into packs were a profoundly rare thing - and now that I'm back it seems every kid is signing 5,000-10,000 autographs just to be inserted into various packs of cards.... It really is surreal to me....

    But think about how much time it would actually take to sign 10,000 autographs for example - I mean counting to 10,000 wouldn't be fun at all... And on top of that these guys have other things to do like practice, conditioning, personal appearances (where they sign more autographs) and not to mention personal lives and hobbies of their own like anyone else, and you would have to think that you can only sign X amount of cards in one sitting before it starts screwing with your wrist, so I would assume they do it in moderation - but here is the kicker.... I actually watched a short documentary on this topic, well actually a couple because I'm subscribed to this former pro baseball player Matt Antonelli on youtube and he discussed this very topic in one of his videos and according to him he had to sign like 5,000 cards in the presence of a representative of card company and he said it took a VERY LONG TIME - And he was only a rookie at the time, a high pick probably on the level of Barzal ... Now Imagine what some of these higher profile players go though?

    I suppose my point is that I don't believe Dahlin isn't signing auto's because it's hard or anything or they're not paying him enough ... There could be a million reasons why.... Maybe he's a private guy, maybe he's difficult to find in the summer when he has time because he's in Sweden and is just trying to enjoy his time?? who knows.... Or maybe he just hasn't signed with a card manufacturer yet.... The kids still young. I mean I would assume if you're a stud hockey player in North America - especially Canada - you probably have all kinds of exclusive offers being tossed at you by the time you're 15 or 16 and maybe Dalhin was protected from that...... Of course this is all speculation .....I'm sure "off the record" if someone asked him he would probably give us an honest answer, lol.....

    If It matters I'm half Swedish myself and grew up in a Swedish culture (not in Sweden or anything) but I am related to Swedes from Sweden and I find them interesting because Swedes are a bit more "modest" or perhaps "humble" so I wouldn't be shocked if signing hockey cards is the last thing on Dahlin's mind....

    Here is a question..... How many Swedes DO have deals with Upper Deck or whatever the company may be to sign hockey cards???


    I believe many are not done in the presence of UD..... Devante Smith-Pelley had an issue a few years back, got busted using an autopen to sign his cards. lol.

    The player (or his agent) certifies that they're real, and that's all UD needs.

    You're right. The autographs are not hard (in small batches). There are many reasons a player may not want to sign them. They may simply not like it, they may feel overwhelmed by the volume. It could be anything.

    My point about money: At some point, if you really want someone to do something (that's really not a big deal), there is a price point when they'll accept... most likely.

    I mean, if they offered Dahlin $1000 per autograph, and asked him to sign just 15 for the season... I assume those 15 would have been signed immediately. They're offering a guy a few thousand bucks to sign thousands of cards? It's not enough money to make a millionaire do something he doesn't want to do... and doesn't feel like he has to.


    As for Swedes: Forsberg & Sundin don't seem to sign with the same frequency of other players from that era... with that stature. I recall hearing (years ago) that Forsberg actually had issues getting paid from Upper Deck years ago (when he was still playing) and refused to deal with them after that (up until recently). No idea if that's true.

    I can't think of any in the last ten years, other than Dhalin, that didn't sign as a rookie though.

  3. #13




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    I believe many are not done in the presence of UD..... Devante Smith-Pelley had an issue a few years back, got busted using an autopen to sign his cards. lol.

    The player (or his agent) certifies that they're real, and that's all UD needs.

    You're right. The autographs are not hard (in small batches). There are many reasons a player may not want to sign them. They may simply not like it, they may feel overwhelmed by the volume. It could be anything.

    My point about money: At some point, if you really want someone to do something (that's really not a big deal), there is a price point when they'll accept... most likely.

    I mean, if they offered Dahlin $1000 per autograph, and asked him to sign just 15 for the season... I assume those 15 would have been signed immediately. They're offering a guy a few thousand bucks to sign thousands of cards? It's not enough money to make a millionaire do something he doesn't want to do... and doesn't feel like he has to.


    As for Swedes: Forsberg & Sundin don't seem to sign with the same frequency of other players from that era... with that stature. I recall hearing (years ago) that Forsberg actually had issues getting paid from Upper Deck years ago (when he was still playing) and refused to deal with them after that (up until recently). No idea if that's true.

    I can't think of any in the last ten years, other than Dhalin, that didn't sign as a rookie though.

    Well, I think some players could really care less about the money aspect.... I mean yea - they want to get paid fair market value - but beyond that I think some players could care less about the endorsements... They want to play hockey because they love the sport, and I think there are a few out there that find signing cards just "goofy".... There are a few out there that don't understand why anyone would want their autograph.. Signing autographs for some of the more humble players is putting smiles on kids faces and not letting adults profit off of their signature..

    Look, this is why I don't ask athletes for their autographs for autographs (especially at my age) .... And that could be another reason Dahlin doesn't sign, because maybe he's mature enough to find the entire concept ridiculous..

    From an outside perspective don't you think it's unusual that a bunch of adults are collecting autographs of kids just because they're good at sports?.... And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bash autograph collectors but the only athletes I ask for autos (in person) are retired players I grew up idolizing who are well older than I am....

    I suppose my point with that is that perhaps Dahlin is an "old soul" as they say.... Maybe he has a personal er ethical rule where he only signs for kids.... Some athletes are like that - they'll only sign for kids and these guys that do this - I really cant blame them.

    I've been to card shows where there is some adult standing in line with a bunch of kids in front of and behind them and these grown men have a stack of cards, a jersey, a hat and whatever else and they expect this athlete to sign ALL of it - meanwhile the kids just want one moment to talk to an athlete they idolize....

    I guess my point is that maybe Dahlin doesn't want to be manipulated, or maybe he's just a humble guy or maybe he's just eccentric... Who knows?

    I mean I could speculate many reasons why a player wouldn't autograph cards (for a card company) regardless of the money...

    And also keep in mind that 10k is NOT a lot of money to your average star athlete, so it's not quite a convincing reason to entice a player to sign cards if they're objected to it for whatever reason..

    Of course keep in mind this is all speculation , and I'm merely using my imagination for why perhaps a player wouldn't sign cards (or anything)...

    Look, Dalhin has his own reasons, and I'm absolutely certain they're not nefarious reasons .... For all we know he signed an endorsement deal with a company which is a subsidiary of a company which is in competition with Upper Deck, and he cant sign because he would break his contract and get sued....

    And I'm betting anything that's the case - he probably signed an exclusive deal with some Swedish product and they own his name and "likeness" so he cant sign anything until the contract is up with this company/corporation .........

    Who knows really, but these dudes that don't sign autographs have their reasons...

  4. #14
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    Well, I think some players could really care less about the money aspect.... I mean yea - they want to get paid fair market value - but beyond that I think some players could care less about the endorsements... They want to play hockey because they love the sport, and I think there are a few out there that find signing cards just "goofy".... There are a few out there that don't understand why anyone would want their autograph.. Signing autographs for some of the more humble players is putting smiles on kids faces and not letting adults profit off of their signature..

    Look, this is why I don't ask athletes for their autographs for autographs (especially at my age) .... And that could be another reason Dahlin doesn't sign, because maybe he's mature enough to find the entire concept ridiculous..

    From an outside perspective don't you think it's unusual that a bunch of adults are collecting autographs of kids just because they're good at sports?.... And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bash autograph collectors but the only athletes I ask for autos (in person) are retired players I grew up idolizing who are well older than I am....

    I could flip that around though: You know you've made it, when someone wants your autograph.

    The age thing is funny (I'm close to 40, BTW). On the topic of buying jerseys, I've heard people say that you should never buy the jersey of a player younger than you. Honestly, I don't care much about it... though it's been years since I bought a jersey that actually had names & numbers.

    Autographs? Meh. I have not done IP autographs, really, in years. Since I was a kid.... other than the odd time that I've gotten in line at a paid signing, and that was for retired players. TTM I do a lot. Some current players, some long-retired. Never thought twice about it. Autographs have been collected for a 100 years. That's not changing real soon. Should it just be a kid thing? I'm not sure why.

    I suppose my point with that is that perhaps Dahlin is an "old soul" as they say.... Maybe he has a personal er ethical rule where he only signs for kids.... Some athletes are like that - they'll only sign for kids and these guys that do this - I really cant blame them.

    I've been to card shows where there is some adult standing in line with a bunch of kids in front of and behind them and these grown men have a stack of cards, a jersey, a hat and whatever else and they expect this athlete to sign ALL of it - meanwhile the kids just want one moment to talk to an athlete they idolize....

    I guess my point is that maybe Dahlin doesn't want to be manipulated, or maybe he's just a humble guy or maybe he's just eccentric... Who knows?

    I mean I could speculate many reasons why a player wouldn't autograph cards (for a card company) regardless of the money...

    There are plenty of athletes... that when you catch them after a practice, game, at the hotel, etc.... will ignore people they believe to be dealers, will give kids priority, and will say "1 per". I don't think ANYONE should have a problem with that. Quite frankly - if a dude shows up with three jerseys, and 12 cards, and a stack of 8x10s, wanting them signed..... you know it's to flip. Maybe not 100% of them, but likely. Priority to kids? They should.

    I really think you're over-thinking the Dahlin thing though. IMO, it's as simple as "I don't want to sign 1000s of autographs for Upper Deck". When I bring up the money - it's not so much a "my autograph is worth more than that!" point.... it's that they're asking him to do something he doesn't want to do. The cash they're offering in exchange for that chore isn't enough to sway him.

    Having said that, I suppose he could have some issue with the whole industry (look at Ken Dryden) but I seriously doubt that's the case.

    And also keep in mind that 10k is NOT a lot of money to your average star athlete, so it's not quite a convincing reason to entice a player to sign cards if they're objected to it for whatever reason..

    Of course keep in mind this is all speculation , and I'm merely using my imagination for why perhaps a player wouldn't sign cards (or anything)...

    Look, Dalhin has his own reasons, and I'm absolutely certain they're not nefarious reasons .... For all we know he signed an endorsement deal with a company which is a subsidiary of a company which is in competition with Upper Deck, and he cant sign because he would break his contract and get sued....

    And I'm betting anything that's the case - he probably signed an exclusive deal with some Swedish product and they own his name and "likeness" so he cant sign anything until the contract is up with this company/corporation .........

    Who knows really, but these dudes that don't sign autographs have their reasons...

    No, we know that's not the case. If Dahlin had signed a deal that prevents him from signing with Upper Deck, we'd know that:

    1. Upper Deck would have already explained why he's not in the set
    2. That company would actually be making autographed cards of Dahlin, to cash in on the deal they signed

    Want a Dahlin autograph? They're readily available:
    https://www.fanatics.com/nhl/rasmus-...z-8-1938682231

    He signed an autograph contract with Fanatics. This has nothing to do with cards, but I'm pretty sure it means that any "offical" sit-down type signings he does, has to go through them. Pretty common for players to do something like that.

    The number of signatures that deal requires him to sign is likely in the 100s, not thousands, and he's probably had to do a couple of paid signing events during the season.

    To use your word, because I agree, I don't think there's anything nefarious here at all. He's just at the same point as many players get with autographs in year #2: He doesn't want to do it, likely because they ask for so many, and the money isn't enough to make him change his mind.

    You see a ton of players... after their Rookie Season, they've just got sticker autos. Why? It's not because they're necessarily only signing stickers... it's because they're not signing at all.... and UD still has stickers left.




    Another thing to consider: If you read posts on this forum... various times in the last 10 years.... other forums or FB groups too.... you'll see lots of people complain about modern athlete's, and their poor penmanship. Their signatures are a mess. Why is that?

    Honestly: While I don't believe autograph collecting is going away anytime soon - for the under 30 crowd (and to a degree, even those older than that) - when meeting someone famous.... the "selfie" has replaced the autograph. Why is that important?

    I'm going to make a bold assumption here, and suggest that Dhalin would consider Nik Lidstrom to be some kind of role model / hero / favorite player (though he might be a little young for that to actually be true.... but still, just bear with me). I'm sure he's met Lidstrom, and likely was not inclined - in the least - to ask for an autograph. Do a selfie? That's probably a lot more likely.

    Then fast forward a few years. Someone who has grown up, with zero interest in autographs (which is many of today's players), it's an even harder sell to convince them they should care about signing for UD.

  5. #15




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    Hi

    Spa Checklist has been released. Dahlin has not signed his FWA card as per the checklist. I not aware of a deal he has any where else that doesn’t allowed to sign for UD. It’s a surprise to me that the #1 pick hasn’t signed for one of the biggest releases of the year. Cheers

    Cheers Mike

  6. #16
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    Hi

    Spa Checklist has been released. Dahlin has not signed his FWA card as per the checklist. I not aware of a deal he has any where else that doesn’t allowed to sign for UD. It’s a surprise to me that the #1 pick hasn’t signed for one of the biggest releases of the year. Cheers

    Cheers Mike

    He doesn't have an Exclusive card deal with anyone, he just doesn't want to sign from the looks of it. I'm sure UD will cave eventually and offer up 'can't refuse' money, but until then we wait. And if Dahlin doesn't like signing, I'm sure a release like SPA wouldn't attract him seeing as how he would have to sign 1000+ autos for that one product alone. I think they will get something done in time for Dahlin to sign his Cup stuff.
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  8. #18




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    He doesn't have an Exclusive card deal with anyone, he just doesn't want to sign from the looks of it. I'm sure UD will cave eventually and offer up 'can't refuse' money, but until then we wait. And if Dahlin doesn't like signing, I'm sure a release like SPA wouldn't attract him seeing as how he would have to sign 1000+ autos for that one product alone. I think they will get something done in time for Dahlin to sign his Cup stuff.


    Got to be weary of buying any non-auto Dahlins this year. Who knows, UD may release an auto version "update" in 3 years like they will be doing with Jack Eichel and Nico Hischier this year.

  9. #19
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    Got to be weary of buying any non-auto Dahlins this year. Who knows, UD may release an auto version "update" in 3 years like they will be doing with Jack Eichel and Nico Hischier this year.

    Honestly, they probably would if they could get Dahlin to sit for a bunch of auto sessions.

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    Got to be weary of buying any non-auto Dahlins this year. Who knows, UD may release an auto version "update" in 3 years like they will be doing with Jack Eichel and Nico Hischier this year.

    ^^^^^^ This!


    When this SPA set drops, and the 'XRCs' look as though they were cards released in their respective years the first time..... and NOT 2018-19..... we can all basically be assured that there's another 999 Dahlin FWs sitting in UD's Vault, waiting to to be signed - and they'll come out as an 'update' in a few years, if they can ever get him to do it.

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