Absolute madness in the graded card world...

[Maggot]

I feel like ebay should be held accountable as well. They allow these sellers to post graded trimmed cards for sale. Where's ebay's punishment?

I'd be curious to hear what you propose that Ebay do differently?

[creasecollector]

I feel like ebay should be held accountable as well. They allow these sellers to post graded trimmed cards for sale. Where's ebay's punishment?

eBay doesn't have the time to investigate every card put up for sale. Plus, it's unfortunately impossible to get concrete evidence on trimming on every card out there. We've been lucky to have dedicated hobbyists who have uncovered this mess in the graded card world, but to expect eBay to step in and become a trim card expert is asking too much in my opinion.

Collectors should be knowledgeable as to whether a card is trimmed. Know what the card looks like before grading and measure the card when you receive the graded copy. If it's off, get a refund

I've been in this hobby a long time (granted, not in the "graded world" of cards) and I couldn't spot trimmed cards unless they were super obvious or pointed out to me.

The collector can't always know what the card looked like before it was graded, as that is just way too hard to do. Unless every serial numbered card was scanned/posted before pack out, there is just no way to know unless it's pointed out to after the fact, which is still hard to do.

People have uncovered a lot as of late with certain serial numbers, but it's impossible to uncover it all, sadly.

[Leafsman]

Sorry, but there is no way eBay should be held accountable for anything going on here. The trimmers of graded cards, the sellers (if known) of graded cards .... and BGS / PSA for not being more diligent (especially with the numbered stuff) that has already come through their doors.

Excuse me? So the trimmers and grading companies get ALL the blame and ebay gets off scott-free for allowing such cards to enter the marketplace? NO. EVERYBODY should share the blame.

I agree that grading companies should be much more diligent in spotting trimmed and fake cards, but in the absence of this, ebay should also know when cards and other collectibles have been altered. Maybe they should be like COMC and ask the seller to send the items to them first.

Because ebay is allowing graded copies of trimmed cards to be sold on their marketplace, I feel that makes them an enabler of the practice of selling altered cards.

Punish all involved.

[Leafsman]

eBay doesn't have the time to investigate every card put up for sale. Plus, it's unfortunately impossible to get concrete evidence on trimming on every card out there. We've been lucky to have dedicated hobbyists who have uncovered this mess in the graded card world, but to expect eBay to step in and become a trim card expert is asking too much in my opinion.



I've been in this hobby a long time (granted, not in the "graded world" of cards) and I couldn't spot trimmed cards unless they were super obvious or pointed out to me.

The collector can't always know what the card looked like before it was graded, as that is just way too hard to do. Unless every serial numbered card was scanned/posted before pack out, there is just no way to know unless it's pointed out to after the fact, which is still hard to do.

People have uncovered a lot as of late with certain serial numbers, but it's impossible to uncover it all, sadly.

"eBay doesn't have the time to investigate every card put up for sale. Plus, it's unfortunately impossible to get concrete evidence on trimming on every card out there."

I disagree. I think ebay can afford to hire knowledgeable people within the grading world. They make perhaps billions every year. They can afford to implement a screening process.

"The collector can't always know what the card looked like before it was graded, as that is just way too hard to do."

Again, I disagree. There are ways to find out what any card is supposed to look like in its raw form. Contact the company or do an internet search, whatever. Somewhere you will find a representation of what the card is supposed to look like. Someone has one somewhere.

[Maggot]

"eBay doesn't have the time to investigate every card put up for sale. Plus, it's unfortunately impossible to get concrete evidence on trimming on every card out there."

I disagree. I think ebay can afford to hire knowledgeable people within the grading world. They make perhaps billions every year. They can afford to implement a screening process.

"The collector can't always know what the card looked like before it was graded, as that is just way too hard to do."

Again, I disagree. There are ways to find out what any card is supposed to look like in its raw form. Contact the company or do an internet search, whatever. Somewhere you will find a representation of what the card is supposed to look like. Someone has one somewhere.

What you're proposing is absurd. If Ebay were to hire enough experts to review every single listing in great detail, the cost of doing business on Ebay would increase exponentially. Ebay is in no way responsible here.

Think of it this way, you claim to own a huge number of BGS XX rookies. Have you fully researched every single one of these to determine if they are trimmed? Under the system you're proposing YOU should be held liable if you were to sell one of these cards, so you better get to work ;)

[creasecollector]

"eBay doesn't have the time to investigate every card put up for sale. Plus, it's unfortunately impossible to get concrete evidence on trimming on every card out there."

I disagree. I think ebay can afford to hire knowledgeable people within the grading world. They make perhaps billions every year. They can afford to implement a screening process.

"The collector can't always know what the card looked like before it was graded, as that is just way too hard to do."

Again, I disagree. There are ways to find out what any card is supposed to look like in its raw form. Contact the company or do an internet search, whatever. Somewhere you will find a representation of what the card is supposed to look like. Someone has one somewhere.

Great points, but I disagree however.

eBay is large, yes, but they cannot possibly hire industry experts (which is subjective in its own right) to skim the hockey card world every day, it's just an impossible task to do.

Plus, If they hired people to screen items in the card world to catch fraud or altered items, then they would have collectors from different hobbies calling out to do the same and hire people in the other areas that they sell as well to catch similar instances of fraud/alteration: Stamps, coins, pins, art, , etc, etc, etc. eBay would not want to subject themselves to that so they will stick with what they do best: Providing a massive marketplace for buyers & sellers to exchange goods. That is what eBay is known for, and they are not going to change their area of business they specialize in. They are not a specialized auction house who also can catch fake/fraud/trimmed items when they intake items. That is not in eBay's wheelhouse, unfortunately.


And to your point about there always being ways to find out what a card looked like in its raw form, that is simply not true. If someone pack-pulled a massive card that happened to have terrible edges, trimmed it, then sold it to someone who submitted it to BGS/PSA for grading, there would be simply no way of knowing that card was trimmed (assuming the trimming was done by someone who knew what they were doing) because there is no photographic before/after evidence.

So while we've been lucky enough to find a fair number of evidence of trimmed cards, the rabbit hole is so deep we truly have no way of knowing how much trimmed cards are out there. I am sure the majority of graded cards out there are fine, but we know now that a lot have been trimmed also. It's sad, really.


Great discussion guys.

[pwaldo]

How or why would eBay need to police the card business when PSA and BGS are supposedly the "card experts"? If they aren't why are people paying them money to grade their cards?

[kovyheater]

How or why would eBay need to police the card business when PSA and BGS are supposedly the "card experts"? If they aren't why are people paying them money to grade their cards?

I agree with this. BGS/PSA should be better. They should know what is trimmed and what is not. The blames starts and stops with them.

[creasecollector]

I agree with this. BGS/PSA should be better. They should know what is trimmed and what is not. The blames starts and stops with them.

Agreed. Especially when some of the high end cards being uncovered as trimmed are serial numbered, have already been graded previously, and have different edges than before.

A photographic archive by BGS/PSA would catch these cards. I can't say all trimmed cards would be caught, or how the overall process would work for these companies, but the serial numbered stuff that has been trimmed needs to be caught, especially if it's already been through your system.

[sparty07]

How BGS/PSA didn't have a database of previously graded high value serial numbered cards astonished me when it came to that McDavid high gloss awhile back.