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  1. #11
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    Remove Broten.....insert Housley and the list is acceptable enough for me.

    Similar kind of argument happens around Hockey-Hall-Of-Fame time every year, that Paul Henderson should be in.

    Henderson, as most know (certainly Canadian Hockey Fans) scored the winning goal of the '72 Summit Series. People kind of forget that he actually scored the winners in games 6, 7, and 8. His Seven goals were tied for the series lead.

    He was a very good hockey player, that had a a spectacular series. HOF worthy? IMO, no. His career just doesn't stack up as a hall-of-famer.


    So this writer...I think he's kind of taken the same approach. If you're going to make a top-10 list for USA hockey, the Miracle team needs to be included. IMO it does not (name it as the greatest moment for USA hockey, sure, but that's not what this is).

    If you were going to include someone from that team, it would have to be Broten. He's arguably a top-20 American player, and I think (for sure) a top-30. Top 10? I agree with you - no - but I understand the sentiment.

    The use of "honorable mentions" was the weirdest part for me.

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  2. #12
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    So with your statement I googled "the NHL first true superstar" or close to that and Cyclone came up 2nd next to Howie Morenz. Always, love reading people stories as usually in each story their a little hidden gem that might not have been turned over in another previous article you read. I am sure the members of SCF would have a whole list of who they think would be the NHL first true superstar lol.

    DON

    That's funny. I guess the point I wanted to make is still valid (you'll never see Morenz's name in a top-10 NHL player list) but I didn't even have the example right. I think that really speaks to the point I was trying to make: At least for myself, I have so little grasp of the early days of the NHL, I find it impossible to quantify those players, vs someone as "modern" as Gordie Howe.

    Joe Malone was another name I forgot to mention.

    I'll also say: There's other names from that era: Roy Worters, Tiny Thompson (for example). If it weren't for ITG cards, I likely still wouldn't know those names.

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  3. #13




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    IRichter, Barrasso, and Quick (in some order) would be the top 3 goalies..

    Not sure how you can exclude Miller from your top 3 list. Hobey Baker winner, leading college shutout leader, most wins by a US born goalie, Vezina trophy, silver medal, most shootout wins in a season, olympic MVP

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  4. #14




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    My other big complaint is that he already added Matthews to his honorable mentions. Let the kid play at least 5 years before ever starting a top X of all time conversation.

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  5. #15
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    Not sure how you can exclude Miller from your top 3 list. Hobey Baker winner, leading college shutout leader, most wins by a US born goalie, Vezina trophy, silver medal, most shootout wins in a season, olympic MVP

    I'm not trying to mitigate the importance of any of those things - but the only two items on that list that hold a lot of weight in my eyes are the most wins by a US born goalie, and the Vezina trophy.

    The College stuff is great, but if I'm making a list of greatest players (any country), and specifically modern ones (i.e. 1950 or newer) I wouldn't consider anything but major professional accomplishments (and international ones too, in some cases) when making that list.

    When talking about "Greatest" players - for a lot of 70s & 80s talk - you do have to consider those international players, because they never played in the NHL (or only for part of their career).

    Again, modern players, and their international accomplishments (i.e. Olympics). It's not that I don't think they aren't worth mentioning, but I don't put a ton of stock in them. I believe Sidney Crosby is already one of the top 10 players of all time, but I don't believe his status is enhanced even a little bit by his Team Canada play. If he'd never played a single game for Canada, and only had the NHL career that he does - I'd still think of him as someone whose cracked that top 10.

    Shootout wins in a season? That's a stat I don't put a lot of stock in either. The shootout didn't even exist prior to to 2005, so you can only compare those numbers to very recent goalies... which is still okay.

    Miller vs Quick? To I give to the edge to Miller, his extra 70 wins, and Vezina.... or Quick plus his 2 Stanley Cups, and Conn Smythe? For me, Quick.
    Miller vs Richter? +77 wins (and counting), a Vezina, MVP @ Olympics (while winning Silver) vs Stanley Cup, and MVP @ World Cup (while winning Gold). For me, Richter.
    Miller vs Barrasso? +9 wins (and counting), both have a Vezina. Are the extra wins for Miller, and more impressive international resume, worth more than Barrsso's Cups? For me, no.


    The wins thing does carry a lot of weight, but you're seeing it with HHOF votes too.... only so much. Longevity does not necessarily equal greats. Osgood is only getting into the HOF the same way you and I do, and the guy won 401 RS games, plus 3 cups.


    Having said all of that, it's not that I'm trying to knock Miller, his career, or accomplishments. He's had a fantastic run. If I had said "my top 4 American goalies" he would have made the list, followed by Beezer.

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  6. #16
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    My other big complaint is that he already added Matthews to his honorable mentions. Let the kid play at least 5 years before ever starting a top X of all time conversation.


    Yup. He may wind up being the greatest Maple Leaf of all time too, but he's not there yet.

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  7. #17




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    They got #1 correct ….That's all that matters.

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