How do you feel about cutting cards out of uncut sheets? is it acceptable, good, bad terrible?

[Savard18]

I just want an opinion on what I should do with these 81/82 OPC 4 card panels?

Obviously there are some nice cards that are part of these 4 card sheets/panels; Messier 2nd YR, Bourque 2nd YR, Moog Rookie, Stastny Rookie "In Action" etc, not bad for just a little pocket change tho, eh?

Now clearly the original sheet has already been cut in to these panels, however that wasn't me. I won these sheets/panels on eBay at auction about a year-and-a-half ago. I didn't pay much - I won the auction for pocket change with the intent of framing the sheets and hanging them on the wall of my "card room". However the reality is that uncut material isn't all that expensive - nor as rare as I thought it would be - and I can get much nicer sheets - as far as condition - for less than $10-15 bucks shipped all day. Of course it depends on what it is - I mean full uncut sheets of 81/82 OPC tend to sell for $200 on average, but clearly it depends on which players are occupying the sheet.

Anyway I'm thinking about just buying a nice early 80's un-butchered sheet, so with that said I was considering cutting the Messier, Bourque, Moog and Stastny out of those panels however if I did that would that be construed or considered as altering a card?? I mean I'm not a moron I think I can get the dimensions straight and the card will absolutely look like it was cut in a factory and it came out of an unopened product at one point, lol..

I'm just wondering from an honest perspective?

I mean I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway, I just wanted some input .. Would any one of you reading this consider the cards altered after I cut them out? is what I'm about to do shady er dishonest if I perhaps trade or sell one in the future? lol. Obviously after I cut it the cards are going to look just like any other mundane 81/82 OPC card depending on how they come out - I think they'll come out just fine.

Now is this wrong? haha..

It would be pretty funny if I cut them out, sent them off to be graded and 8-9 months from now they come back PSA 9's, lol... Yea, no they're going to be mid-grade. Perhaps a 6-7, I already see I'm going to have centering issues with a couple of them, but that's fine - they're going into my PC anyway.

After I'm done cutting them I'll post the images of them side by side with the same card and we'll see if anyone can spot the one that was cut.

[30ranfordfan]

I have no issues with seeing them cut.... that's what they were printed for, after all.

If you cut the cards yourself, and are trying to move them after the fact - I think you should be upfront about what you've got. I believe PSA won't grade vintage, that were cut with modern tools.

Specifically for the panels with Messier, Moog, and Bourque: I'd think they'd be more interesting collectibles if left in tact. Those cards are pretty easy to find, but I would have expected that all three of those guys have collectors that would be interested in stuff like this.

[cjb]

how would psa know if you were the who cut them?

[Rraincock]

how would psa know if you were the who cut them?

I think it has to do with the edge profiles. When a card is cut from a sheet stacked into a pressed block, often the blades (or wires) get dull and will result in those beautiful raggy.fuzzy edges. Topps doesn't seem to suffer from this, but were printed at a different plant. PSA would take a close look at the edge profile, size of the card, and maybe even the crush marks (cut face up or cut face down) to determine sheet cuts. This is where a lot of the PSA 10 and BGS 9.5+ cards from the 80s and older come from. Not all, but a lot. PSA has the reputation of not grading sheet cut cards BUT you know some of them sneak through. BGS doesn't seem to have a problem with grading sheet cut cards so long as their size and appearance falls within the acceptable parameters of pack opened cards.

[cjb]

they should change their name from PSA to CSI.

man they are thorough

[Savard18]

I think it has to do with the edge profiles. When a card is cut from a sheet stacked into a pressed block, often the blades (or wires) get dull and will result in those beautiful raggy.fuzzy edges. Topps doesn't seem to suffer from this, but were printed at a different plant. PSA would take a close look at the edge profile, size of the card, and maybe even the crush marks (cut face up or cut face down) to determine sheet cuts. This is where a lot of the PSA 10 and BGS 9.5+ cards from the 80s and older come from. Not all, but a lot. PSA has the reputation of not grading sheet cut cards BUT you know some of them sneak through. BGS doesn't seem to have a problem with grading sheet cut cards so long as their size and appearance falls within the acceptable parameters of pack opened cards.

I don't get why it even matters honestly just as long as the dimensions are right and the card is cut from an authentic sheet. I mean it's not like Topps/OPC have exclusive rights to cut their sheets and if those exclusive rights are violated you go to jail (J/K, lol), that or the card is rejected by professional graders/authenticators or given a qualifier of sorts.. Besides, if cut right how could any collector or professional grader actually prove a card was hand cut from a sheet and not by the manufacturer?

If PSA turnaround time wasn't 10 months then I would send the Messier in for grading to see if PSA could figure out if it was hand cut or machine cut... In my opinion PSA could speculate all they like but objectively they couldn't lower their assessed grade based purely on speculation.. I mean I suppose they could but if that did that it would be dishonest and punitive.. If I was a professional grader I wouldn't care if a card was hand cut or machine cut, the process in which the card was cut wouldn't concern me - because I'm grading the cut - not whom or what made the cut.

[30ranfordfan]

I don't get why it even matters honestly just as long as the dimensions are right and the card is cut from an authentic sheet. I mean it's not like Topps/OPC have exclusive rights to cut their sheets and if those exclusive rights are violated you go to jail (J/K, lol), that or the card is rejected by professional graders/authenticators or given a qualifier of sorts.. Besides, if cut right how could any collector or professional grader actually prove a card was hand cut from a sheet and not by the manufacturer?

If PSA turnaround time wasn't 10 months then I would send the Messier in for grading to see if PSA could figure out if it was hand cut or machine cut... In my opinion PSA could speculate all they like but objectively they couldn't lower their assessed grade based purely on speculation.. I mean I suppose they could but if that did that it would be dishonest and punitive.. If I was a professional grader I wouldn't care if a card was hand cut or machine cut, the process in which the card was cut wouldn't concern me - because I'm grading the cut - not whom or what made the cut.

It has to do with the edges. If you were going to cut up uncut sheets today..... you would almost certainly be using better tools that OPC or Topps had back in the early 80s. Look at the Edges on a card from 1980, and then compare to one from 1989. They improved things a lot over that stretch.

What they'll spot is that the card was cut using modern technology, and not what was available at the time..... unless you're going to go out of your way to cut the sheet with 40 year old tools, and intentionally cut it with rough edges.

Why would someone care at the end of the day? The card is real, it was printed by OPC in 1980, so what does it matter when or who it was cut by? There's a lot of people that only want cards that were inserted into packs / boxes / etc. That's what they consider to be the "real" thing, not stuff that cut perfectly decades later.

It's a subjective argument though.... you'll never get a consensus.

I'm pretty sure PSA won't grade them though, while Beckett will.

[creasecollector]

In my personal collection, I think it would be a nice little oddball item, but if someone decided to cut up a sheet, I don't see an issue with it either. You're just doing what the company would have done themselves eventually anyways.

Have fun! & yes, be honest with what you have if going to sell these cards from this sheet. A lot of collectors would like to know it was cut from a sheet recently instead of from an original packed out card.

[Savard18]

It has to do with the edges. If you were going to cut up uncut sheets today..... you would almost certainly be using better tools that OPC or Topps had back in the early 80s. Look at the Edges on a card from 1980, and then compare to one from 1989. They improved things a lot over that stretch.

What they'll spot is that the card was cut using modern technology, and not what was available at the time..... unless you're going to go out of your way to cut the sheet with 40 year old tools, and intentionally cut it with rough edges.

Why would someone care at the end of the day? The card is real, it was printed by OPC in 1980, so what does it matter when or who it was cut by? There's a lot of people that only want cards that were inserted into packs / boxes / etc. That's what they consider to be the "real" thing, not stuff that cut perfectly decades later.

It's a subjective argument though.... you'll never get a consensus.

I'm pretty sure PSA won't grade them though, while Beckett will.

Yea, but not all OPC cards have rough er "frayed" edges. At least when it comes to the older OPC's in my collection maybe only 30% are noticeably OPC's based on appearance or face alone... Point being just because the card doesn't have "frayed" edges doesn't mean it was hand cut...

Besides, I'm sure if you wanted the "frayed" appearance some OPC cards have I'm sure a dull razor blade would do that..

No doubt this is a subjective topic - tho I personally don't care whom or what cut the card as long as it's authentic and not trimmed.... If it matters a few months back I broke a huge 89-90 OPC vending case and none of the cards had "frayed" edges and the only way to tell them apart from Topps via the face of the card is one says "O-Pee-Chee" and the other says "Topps".

[Savard18]

Alright, lets play a game and test your skills. Two of these four 1976/77 issues are OPC and the other two are obviously Topps, can you spot them?