Five Reasons to be Pumped for the 2017-18 Habs

[RGM81]

I agree with everything said here. For some reason, and I'm not sure why, it sounds like Bergie was given a vote of confidence from ownership heading into next season at least. I'll be honest, when he came on board, I was a fan of his moves, even just the smaller surgical ones. I thought he was making the right decisions, but the last few years, he hasn't at all. He seems to be falling into the bad Montreal habit of old where he trades players for the sake of trading them without worrying about return on investment. I realize that expectations are different in Montreal and they're hesitant for a rebuild, but the majority of NHL contenders don't become contenders without going through some tough times. Trying to be a patchwork contender while ignoring the obvious holes in your roster just doesn't pay the bills. Now, they've traded a potential future cornerstone in Sergachev and didn't get even one viable long-term asset back when trading one of their most marketable players in Subban. Even if the ping pong balls fall their way in the draft lottery, I'm not sure I have faith in them to make the most of the situation. I never thought I'd see the day where I would be envious of the Maple Leafs, but at least they had a (Shana)plan and have stuck with it.

You don’t consider Shea Weber, who is under contract until 2023-24, a “viable long term asset”?

You don’t “have faith” in Trevor Timmins, the guy who pushed for Carey Price, and found Victor Mete and Brendan Gallagher in late rounds, to be able to make an easy top five selection?

I know we are facing dark times in the moment, but c’mon man let’s be serious here. Things aren’t as awful as they seem. It will take a master stroke or two by Bergevin this summer to get this team to where it deserves to be, I will accord that. They have to get the right deal for Pacioretty if they decide to trade him. They have to lure a legit top-end UFA. They have to replace Benn, Schlemko, and Alzner. I believe they will able to do at least one of those things. They’ve seen enough from Mete, Juulsen to know they’re NHL ready...and enough from this aging trio to know that this team won’t be much better than 27th defensively if that trio is still in the lineup next season.


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[primetimepawich]

You don’t consider Shea Weber, who is under contract until 2023-24, a “viable long term asset”?

You don’t “have faith” in Trevor Timmins, the guy who pushed for Carey Price, and found Victor Mete and Brendan Gallagher in late rounds, to be able to make an easy top five selection?

I know we are facing dark times in the moment, but c’mon man let’s be serious here. Things aren’t as awful as they seem. It will take a master stroke or two by Bergevin this summer to get this team to where it deserves to be, I will accord that. They have to get the right deal for Pacioretty if they decide to trade him. They have to lure a legit top-end UFA. They have to replace Benn, Schlemko, and Alzner. I believe they will able to do at least one of those things. They’ve seen enough from Mete, Juulsen to know they’re NHL ready...and enough from this aging trio to know that this team won’t be much better than 27th defensively if that trio is still in the lineup next season.


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According to the interwebs, Weber is actually under contract through 25/26 - 8 more seasons at a cap hit of $7,857,143. Is that good value for him "now"? How about over the next 8 years? The guy can play on my team anytime, but the reality is that's a horrible contract. He's already on the wrong side of 30 and does not play a style of game that traditionally ages well. So he may be under contract long-term, but no, I do not consider him a viable long-term asset. A viable long-term asset would be able to grow with the team and be part of the solution going forward. Though he still brings useful qualities to any organization, Weber's best days are behind him and he can only go down from here. That contract is an albatross.

Timmins has been hit-or-miss. No scout is perfect, but he's been right often enough for me to usually give him the benefit of the doubt. And to be fair to him, he's rarely had a top-10 pick to prove himself with. So perhaps I should've been more clear - I'm not sure I have faith in the "organization" to make the most of it, whether it's trading them (Sergachev) or trying to make them be something they're not and then punishing them for it (Galchenyuk).

I sure as heck don't have faith in Bergie being the guy to pull off master strokes. Yzerman, Poile...guys like that have shown the patience and discipline necessary. Even Joe freakin' Sakic waited until he got the Duchene trade he wanted. Could Bergie with Pacioretty? If there's a rift there and Pac is unhappy and incapable of doing the one thing we've always been able to count on him for - scoring goals - then he will only be negatively impacting his value and any interested team will have us over a barrel. If Pac is scoring goals, it's easy to market him as a goal-scorer. If he's not, then what is he even doing for us?

This team doesn't have a cupboard full of grade-A prospects. That tends to happen when you aren't bad enough to earn the right to draft the top prospects. But they "do" have guys who could be part of the solution going forward. They just need to have a cultural change, turn this team over to the kids and be prepared to take the bad with the good. No more patchwork veterans. No more only playing the kids when David Schlemko gets hurt. Let's see what they've got.

[mooneyes]

Well, last night the Jets rested 6 starters including their # 1 goalie and still beat the Habs on the road. 3 of the goals came players on entry level contracts, Laine, Connor, and Ehlers, plus another from a player in his first game, D-man Sami Niku. He is a 7th rd pick but looks to take a spot next year. Connor nets his 30th to lead all rookies, and Laine fires his 44th to close in on Ovechkin for the Rocket Trophy.
Meanwhile the Habs hope to regain glory from a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft, and whatever they get for 30 yr old Pacioretty? Considering what little Buffalo received for Evander Kane, what could they expect to get in return for their aging goal scorer?
The Habs are B-A-D...with little hope unless they crash and burn so they can draft #1 picks in successive years. They need a complete rebuild and by the time they have the pieces in place, from the draft to compete, Price, and Weber will ready to retire! Trade them now for anything you can get!! Not going to happen though, who would take their contracts?
This team is going to suck for a very, very, long time.

[coachobrien44]

Stay patient Habs fans!!!

It's hard to get a read on which direction the management is heading. There is enough young talent on this roster to turn it around pretty quickly. If they want to have a full rebuild trade Price now. Buffalo could use a goalie and Montreal could land Dahlin in return with the number 1 pick if Buffalo wins the lottery. Islanders could use a goalie as well, they could get a Beauvilier or Barzal plus their first round pick or Tavares decides to leave NYI for MTL. Too many unknowns but with the Habs guaranteed to have a top ten pick in this year's draft it's a good starting block to rebuild the team.

[30ranfordfan]

Habs are in an interesting spot.

In the last four seasons (including this one) they've missed the playoffs twice, and won their division twice. Clearly a big part of the difference in those seasons is injuries.

I get why some think Montreal should rebuild, but I don't know that it's really an option for them. Price's new contract is about to kick in. It's an 8 year, 84 million buck pact. He's going to be 31 before next season starts. You know that that means? He's not going to be the best goalie in the world for at least the second half of that contract. The window to win with Price as the guy that drags you there - it's the next few years, and that's it. Will he still be a good goalie at 35? Probably (I'd expect it) but I wouldn't expect him to be winning Vezina Trophies at that age (or even be in the conversation).

So if Montreal is going to go into rebuild, but keep Price, they have to do it fast.

And trade Price?? I can't imagine it. They'd get Pennies on the dollar. I saw a suggest of Barzal & a 1st from the Islanders. Garth Snow isn't trading Barzal or is his 1st for Carey Price, much less both. He's got a 10.5 million Cap hit. A package of Andrew Ladd, Jaro Halak, and a 2019 1st (when the Islanders would think they're a playoff team) + a prospect nobody would care about.... I don't think Price would get much more than that on the trade market, because nobody wants to pay 10 million for a goalie.

[mooneyes]

I get the feeling Montreal fell in love with the idea that a superstar goalie, and little else, can win you Stanley Cups. The Saint Patrick syndrome perhaps. Roy won them a Cup almost by himself and they thought the same about Price. In reality, a team needs a good enough goalie, and a core group of superstar skaters to build around. They need to draft a franchise center man of the Toews, McDavid or Mathews type. Even a Schefeile who was a 7th pick, so maybe there is hope to get one without a 1st overall pick, but it is difficult and takes lots of patience to develop a guy like that. To get an instant impact guy, they need luck and a # 1 pick. Than they still need to suck and draft a stud D-man or winger like Patrick Kane to take some of the offensive load. The problem, of course, is that with a healthy Price, they won't suck! The will be average and get average draft picks. The Rangers have been in a similar path for a while now.

[30ranfordfan]

Maybe?

I think everyone can agree that the '93 Cup Team had "only one superstar" (there is a quote for then-coach Jacques Demers that says that) and the last two Cups the franchise won were on the back of a Superstar goalie playing out of his mind.

The formula for a Cup win in Montreal (right now) isn't that complicated: Finish high enough in the regular season that you should get a favorable matchup in Round 1.... and (assuming the scoring doesn't increase dramatically) Price needs to be playing at a level that he can steal you as many games as you need in rounds 2 through 4.

Could that happen? I think, without a doubt, yes. Price can be that good.

Goalies are a funny thing. I think you need good goaltending to win a Cup, but the evidence is out there that you don't need the best goalie to win a cup. When was the last time a team with the best goalie in the league won a Stanley Cup? The Bruins won with Vezina winner Thomas in 2010-11. I doubt you would have had many people claiming him to be the best goalie in the league... but clearly voters thought he had the best season of any goalie.

Before that: Brodeur certainly fits the bill. If Hasek was not the best goalie in the league when he won his Cups, he was certainly "one of the best", but that was also before the Salary Cap... and doesn't really apply to the argument I'll make.

IMO, an elite center is a more important piece for a Championship team than an elite goalie is - assuming you still have a good goalie (and preferably one that's won a few playoff rounds already).

Fleury makes 5.75 in Vegas. He's a real obvious pick (due to multiple Cup wins) but I'd sooner have him and a 10 million dollar center, than Price and 6 million dollar center (which simplifies it, a bit.... because you do have 18 other players dressed that would affect a final answer).

Having that much money tied up in a goalie makes it tough to build a forward group good enough to win, but not impossible.... and with a few good moves, maybe not even that unlikely.

With all the cap space the Habs have, I suppose they could even do it with both. Throw a truck load of money @ Tavares??

With the current group in Montreal: I would say they've got some good players up front, maybe even some (potentially) great ones.... but nobody that is going to be considered elite. Who was the last team to win a Stanley Cup without an elite forward?

I get the feeling Montreal fell in love with the idea that a superstar goalie, and little else, can win you Stanley Cups. The Saint Patrick syndrome perhaps. Roy won them a Cup almost by himself and they thought the same about Price. In reality, a team needs a good enough goalie, and a core group of superstar skaters to build around. They need to draft a franchise center man of the Toews, McDavid or Mathews type. Even a Schefeile who was a 7th pick, so maybe there is hope to get one without a 1st overall pick, but it is difficult and takes lots of patience to develop a guy like that. To get an instant impact guy, they need luck and a # 1 pick. Than they still need to suck and draft a stud D-man or winger like Patrick Kane to take some of the offensive load. The problem, of course, is that with a healthy Price, they won't suck! The will be average and get average draft picks. The Rangers have been in a similar path for a while now.

[geschrocks33]

To build off of @30ranfordfan's point, no way you are getting what you mentioned for Carey Price. If the Sabres (huge if because we all know were gonna lose) win the lottery, they won't be moving it for a 31 year old goalie. We need D just as much as we need goaltending, have you seen their D core? And we seem pretty confident in Ullmark to take over the load next year since he seems pretty well seasoned from his stint in the AHL. Plus we aren't taking on a $10.5mm contract when Eichel's $10mm kicks in next year, and Sam Reinhart is a RFA, and we already have millions tied up in people who underproduce (Matt Moulson, Kyle Okposo, etc). Also I know Garth Snow makes questionable moves sometimes, but I would put Barzal in the "untouchable" category.

I don't think the Canadiens are as bad as they seem, the problem is when they suffer big injuries (Price, Weber, etc) they crash and burn. Trading Sergachev for Drouin hasn't worked out (yet) but it's only 1 year. I don't think the Canadiens can afford to go into a rebuild. You have Price on a huge contract and a few years of him at his best to win, by the time a rebuild is complete it's been mentioned, he won't be at the top of his game anymore. So they need to somehow create some patch work and get something going.


Also - related to the title of this thread, I think it's pretty crazy how many preseason predictions or expectations have been COMPLETELY wrong. This thread was about being pumped for the 17/18 Habs and they have been junk. Same applies for my Sabres, thought we'd at least be close to if not in the mix for the playoffs, instead we are dead last. Look at Edmonton - a favorite to WIN THE CUP is in what, 25th??? Vegas - written off by basically everyone, is going to win their division and has challenged for the top spot in the entire league all year. Been a wild year for hockey.

[canucksfan007]

Just go out and sign Tavares and Karlsson ..... problem solved Habs =)

[RGM81]

Just go out and sign Tavares and Karlsson ..... problem solved Habs =)

Right up until the Sedins announced their retirement, I had hope for at least one of these. Now, the Canucks even get a favourable review simply because of the language issue and taxation.

Montreal's only hope is to build through the draft and some combination of extremely astute trading & UFA day. We very rarely see the best players choose Montreal. We got really lucky with Radulov one year, and he parlayed that into 5 years in a tax haven in Texas. Many Habs fans like to rag Bergevin because he "failed to sign" Player X, Y, Z. That's not how free agency works. The players get to choose where they sign. Bergevin reportedly "lost" out on Lucic despite offering him a million extra per season over Edmonton's offer. That's a bullet dodged. Big time. But then he made up for that by giving Karl Alzner five years...a guy that was already in decline has been in even more precipitous decline this year.

There are two major issues and a couple minor ones that need to be addressed:

Major Issue #1 - a 1C. Everybody in the NHL knows it and has for the last 20 years. @30ranfordfan hit in on the head--this has, in today's NHL, become the most important position. People again complained that Bergevin didn't land Duchene. Well look at what was offered and ask yourself if that's what you'd be willing to sacrifice. Clearly in retrospect, the Avalanche made off like absolute bandits in that transaction. Those players rarely become available and when they do, teams have to overpay to get them. It will be the same if Tavares hits UFA status this year. It will take a minimum of $12M probably to make him even THINK about coming to Montreal. But this team cannot go into next season with Jonathan Drouin as its 1C. I think he's going to have a much better Year 2 in Montreal but I think it'll be only so if he's a 1LW. I think Pacioretty, packaged properly, can still bring them a guy. It may require taking on a bad contract, but I would go hard after Sam Bennett from Calgary. The Flames are locked in with Monahan as 1C and seemingly with Backlund as 2C. Bennett is still figuring it out but he's too good to be a 3C. They're still a year away from Ryan Poehling being ready, and he projects to be a 2C. But the depth at this position is terrible. Cannot go into 18-19 with Drouin, Danault, De La Rose, and Logan Shaw/Mike McCarron as your guys and expect the offence to be better than 29th like it was this year.

Major Issue #2 - a 1LD. Someone needs to be capable of playing with Shea Weber for 25-30 minutes a night. Maybe down the road Mete or Juulsen get there. Right now those kids can slot in nicely anywhere in the 4-6 D spot. Petry played some great hockey this year right up until he checked out around Game #65. So they have their RD for the top two pairings. Finding a D-man like that isn't easy and perhaps, much like Edmonton did with Hall and Eberle, the return for Pacioretty isn't a forward but a D-man. Time will tell with that. But as I said above they gotta get rid of Schlemko, Alzner (good luck with that) and Benn because those three cannot be part of your Top 6 in today's NHL. If they want the D to be better than 29th like it was this year, they cannot proceed with the same D-men they had this year. Carey Price did allow more than his share of terrible goals this year, but he's been hung out to dry a ton by a brutal D corps.

The tweaks - please don't bring back Plekanec. De La Rose has proven he take that role, at less money and much younger. Figure out the depth roles as well. They've got some good top 6 pieces that just need that bona fide #1 guy up top to push things along. And for goodness sake, please be entertaining again. I'm sick of low-event losing hockey.