ebay - again

[razzamaztaz]

Star_cards: All I can say is, in Sweden you are completely wrong, I can go on and explain our laws further but that's how it is. I'm living here and not over there so of course I can't argue what your laws is.

"It would be up to a parent or guardian to monitor what their kids sell and buy on an ebay account. Bottom line, if item is listed for lower than typical ebay market price it's up to the seller to proof read his listing before hitting "list". The buyer has no responsibility to save the seller from himself. "

Yes, you do here. There is age laws here too, but even if there is and it turns out there's a kid hiding behind the name and lets say you sell or buy with that kid without the parents allowance you're breaking the law. But again, this is our laws. Sorry if it sounds unbelievable for you, thats the way it is here. But all this law talk of course got nothing to go with tie original moral debate.

"If someone wants to say it's a moral issue to buy this card isn't it just as immoral for a seller to list a item on ebay and then back out of a legally binding agreement after the seller buys it? "

No. Cause it's not an active choice. If it's not an active choice it can't be a moral choice. The seller has not made the moral decision to make the mistake. The buyer however makes the moral active choice of taking advantage of someone's mistake. Jesus has none of you never read any ehtics or learned moral references?

HOWEVER, say I as a seller list a LIVE auction, and it ends on a terribly bad price much less then it should have, and the seller somehow wrigles his way out of it. Not THAT is immoral of the seller. This has happened to me once, I listed a card live, it was worth around $100, and it sold for a crappy $26, timing, day, place, whatever the cirumctances it ended that low. I honored the deal of course and sold and shipped it promptly to the buyer cause it was my risk to take, my active choice.

And this comment just is sad:

"What's wrong with preying on people's mistakes? It sounds like you have very high expectations of the internet. If you worried about making a BIN mistake just triple check. $13 Jordan Eberle exclusive young guns are excellent. Also, it appears that you think the internet has morals... hehehe "

Internet is life. Internet is becoming more and more common, everyone's on it, not to mnention hetre I just saw a list today that Swedes are the most online people in the world (think usa came fifth on the list). Even our elder retired folks know how to surf around. Internet is the future. I should god darn well expect people to behave morally well on internet too. If you want to prey on people's mistakes by all means, but don't justify it morally. I expect people to act like adults with full responsibility on internet, not hide behind things or think they can leave all morals behind.

As for the rest I refer to Ironhorse, he puts it so much better then I do.

[razzamaztaz]

"One can just hope that at the end of the day you can look in the mirror and see a good person looking back at you =) "

Well said! : )

[Fred Bear]

"If someone wants to say it's a moral issue to buy this card isn't it just as immoral for a seller to list a item on ebay and then back out of a legally binding agreement after the seller buys it? "

No. Cause it's not an active choice. If it's not an active choice it can't be a moral choice. The seller has not made the moral decision to make the mistake. The buyer however makes the moral active choice of taking advantage of someone's mistake. Jesus has none of you never read any ehtics or learned moral references?

This is where I, and I think others, disagree with you.

You are making an active choice not to honor the sale you've made, period.
You seem to be trying to paint the buyer in a negative light by transferring all of the ethical responsibility to that person.

I don't think anyone is trying to disagree that how a buyer acts in the situation gives you insight into that person's character, but you have to acknowledge and understand that both parties have an ethical responsibility in situations like these. A seller (or any individual in a broader sense) has a moral/ethical obligation to take responsibility for all their actions. As I've said before, it's okay to make a mistake - it's how a person deals with their mistakes that defines that person's character. Again, I think you did the right thing - you made an arrangement where you both benefited (you didn't lose a pile of money and the buyer got a reward for helping you out of a rough spot).

I think everyone on this site really believes that people are, in general, decent and reasonable - otherwise, we'd never trust one another enough to ship cards through the mail.

[ReimerFan]

"I think everyone on this site really believes that people are, in general, decent and reasonable - otherwise, we'd never trust one another enough to ship cards through the mail."

I trust the traders, I just don't trust the postal service lol!

[Dewwen]

You people crack me up. eBay is a bunch of private buyers and sellers, that's it. You're not talking about national chain here like Walmart with $405 BILLION in sales, that is highly watched by the government and bulldogged by several consumer groups. You're talking a guy with $400 in sales. And being that it is a private party, you have to understand they're not being governed by the standards of a Fortune 500 company. So a basement-dwelling card collector made an error on a listing. Big whoop. Happens all the time. Seller explains the situation to the buyer, and the buyer either understands that people make mistakes or he does not. If not, the buyer can feel free to file whatever action he wants with whatever entity he thinks would take an interest:

• Police? No interest as no laws were broken.
• eBay? They'll tell you to leave a negative and move on. Maybe you can persuade them into suspending his account if he has a habit of doing this (but doubtful if he's a power seller).
• Better Business Bureau? Seller most likely is not a member.
• City/State/County licensing departments? Probably not licensed.
• Civil Court? You may be able to recoup any money you've put out-of-pocket, but that's about it. After the $5 refund is given, good luck proving recoverable damages beyond that.
• Take it to the message boards and publicly air the situation. Just remember, you may be the one that comes off as a greedy opportunistic jerk and honest sellers WILL want your eBay user ID to add to their blocked list.

Bottom line, because one innocent collector makes a mistake does not mean someone else is entitled to a major windfall. We're ALL human and mistakes happen. And at least he was HONEST about the mistake and tried to satisfy the buyer. He didn't just take the negative and move on. What about all those chumps that sell cards, then mysteriously can't find them the next day? Or say they sold it to someone else on another site and forgot to remover your listing? Do you make all of them honor your deals no matter what?

It's a bad situation, but it wasn't done intentionally. And without the ability to prove malice, it's just time to move along.

[spuds1961]

You people crack me up. eBay is a bunch of private buyers and sellers, that's it. You're not talking about national chain here like Walmart with $405 BILLION in sales, that is highly watched by the government and bulldogged by several consumer groups. You're talking a guy with $400 in sales. And being that it is a private party, you have to understand they're not being governed by the standards of a Fortune 500 company. So a basement-dwelling card collector made an error on a listing. Big whoop. Happens all the time. Seller explains the situation to the buyer, and the buyer either understands that people make mistakes or he does not. If not, the buyer can feel free to file whatever action he wants with whatever entity he thinks would take an interest:

• Police? No interest as no laws were broken.
• eBay? They'll tell you to leave a negative and move on. Maybe you can persuade them into suspending his account if he has a habit of doing this (but doubtful if he's a power seller).
• Better Business Bureau? Seller most likely is not a member.
• City/State/County licensing departments? Probably not licensed.
• Civil Court? You may be able to recoup any money you've put out-of-pocket, but that's about it. After the $5 refund is given, good luck proving recoverable damages beyond that.
• Take it to the message boards and publicly air the situation. Just remember, you may be the one that comes off as a greedy opportunistic jerk and honest sellers WILL want your eBay user ID to add to their blocked list.

Bottom line, because one innocent collector makes a mistake does not mean someone else is entitled to a major windfall. We're ALL human and mistakes happen. And at least he was HONEST about the mistake and tried to satisfy the buyer. He didn't just take the negative and move on. What about all those chumps that sell cards, then mysteriously can't find them the next day? Or say they sold it to someone else on another site and forgot to remover your listing? Do you make all of them honor your deals no matter what?

It's a bad situation, but it wasn't done intentionally. And without the ability to prove malice, it's just time to move along.

I concur completely,well put.

[Star_Cards]

Star_cards: All I can say is, in Sweden you are completely wrong, I can go on and explain our laws further but that's how it is. I'm living here and not over there so of course I can't argue what your laws is.

"It would be up to a parent or guardian to monitor what their kids sell and buy on an ebay account. Bottom line, if item is listed for lower than typical ebay market price it's up to the seller to proof read his listing before hitting "list". The buyer has no responsibility to save the seller from himself. "

Yes, you do here. There is age laws here too, but even if there is and it turns out there's a kid hiding behind the name and lets say you sell or buy with that kid without the parents allowance you're breaking the law. But again, this is our laws. Sorry if it sounds unbelievable for you, thats the way it is here. But all this law talk of course got nothing to go with tie original moral debate.

"If someone wants to say it's a moral issue to buy this card isn't it just as immoral for a seller to list a item on ebay and then back out of a legally binding agreement after the seller buys it? "

No. Cause it's not an active choice. If it's not an active choice it can't be a moral choice. The seller has not made the moral decision to make the mistake. The buyer however makes the moral active choice of taking advantage of someone's mistake. Jesus has none of you never read any ehtics or learned moral references?

HOWEVER, say I as a seller list a LIVE auction, and it ends on a terribly bad price much less then it should have, and the seller somehow wrigles his way out of it. Not THAT is immoral of the seller. This has happened to me once, I listed a card live, it was worth around $100, and it sold for a crappy $26, timing, day, place, whatever the cirumctances it ended that low. I honored the deal of course and sold and shipped it promptly to the buyer cause it was my risk to take, my active choice.

And this comment just is sad:

"What's wrong with preying on people's mistakes? It sounds like you have very high expectations of the internet. If you worried about making a BIN mistake just triple check. $13 Jordan Eberle exclusive young guns are excellent. Also, it appears that you think the internet has morals... hehehe "

Internet is life. Internet is becoming more and more common, everyone's on it, not to mnention hetre I just saw a list today that Swedes are the most online people in the world (think usa came fifth on the list). Even our elder retired folks know how to surf around. Internet is the future. I should god darn well expect people to behave morally well on internet too. If you want to prey on people's mistakes by all means, but don't justify it morally. I expect people to act like adults with full responsibility on internet, not hide behind things or think they can leave all morals behind.

As for the rest I refer to Ironhorse, he puts it so much better then I do.

Of course it is an active choice. Just because it is due to ignorance or lack of attention to detail still makes you listing a card incorrectly a choice. You chose to nit proof read your listing before you hit list. True you didn't make the choice by saying to yourself "I will list this at a much cheaper price", but you did make the choice to not double check your listing before submitting. To put blame on a buyer, that simply came across an item listed on eBay that they wanted (no matter the price), seems like you want to deflect some of the blame of your errored listing onto the buyer. In my opinion the buyer did nothing but buy an item for the amount that the seller listed it for.

I'm glad that you would honor a live action sell price even if it went for less than you had hoped. That is the way it should be.

I guess my main thing about these types of situations comes down to this. Buyers don't know what a seller motivation to selling an item is and I feel it's not the buyers job to figure that out. If someone wants to sell me something and they quote me a price, I'm more than likely not going to come back to them and tell them "no, I will give you more."... Especially if it's a complete stranger of a faceless listing online. Sure it would be nice to do, but it's up to the seller to educate himself on what he has. With the internet and eBay and such, it's never been easier to research and figure out what you have. Anyone that would sell something and not know exactly what they have is just lazy. I know this doesn't pertain to your specific situation, but the thread has evolved into a discussion along these lines.

As far as each countries laws, I'm not even going to get into that because I have no knowledge of Swedish law... I just took offense that you would classify US law as having no common sense.