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  1. #1

    Question for all of the Becket bashers

    I have a question for all of the Beckett bashers in the world, but the forum will have to do because not everyone in the world reads this forum, but they should.

    A lot of people don't like that Beckett is used as the end all be all resource used when determining value when doing a trade. How would you base fair trade value on a trade if a price guide did not exist? Would you look at the the price you paid for a pack/box and compare it to a card from another set and the cost of it's pack/box? Do you look at the overall odds of the rookie insertion rate as compared to the common rate?

    What if you pulled a jersey card that you have no interest in, but the other person has a rookie card, non jersey card that you want? They are not comparable because they are very different types of cards.

    How would you truely value an autograph card. Would you try to find out what a guy charges at a show and compare to what another guy charges at a show? What if they don't sign, then you have nothing to go off of. Would you just trade auto for auto straight up?

    I guess the way the hobby has turned in the last 5 years has made it very difficult to know what to value a card at without other data because some cards are very limited, some rookie are inserted 1 per box, where in the old days, they were just randomly inserted.

    To those of you who hate Beckett, do you hate it because you do not think it accuratly reflects what a card is worth? I have to admit, the only place you are going to pay full price for a card is if you go to a shop or a show, or you want the "HOT" player of the time, like Vick after the Packer game last year on Ebay. And many cards go unsold after a player retires, so if nothing sells, can the true book value be 0 because nobody wants it? The internet makes many cards available at much less than book value, so why have one at all?

    How many of you look at book price before buying a card? Before trading a card?

    Also, those of you who hate Beckett, do you buy Beckett and read it, or even use it or the free pricing on the net when you make a trade? Would you blindly say I will give you my X for your Y without looking at the book price? Do you just go off of what it sells for on ebay on average for your fair trade prices?

    I do know after reading some posts though that people put too much emfasis (spelling) on book price, and not look at who they are trading for. Someone is looking for a set filler like a Ryan Leaf and sees one, but the other guy wants only Vick or some hot player for his card, and wouldn't even consider anyone else they may like.

    Sorry for the long read, but I am really curious how people would and do trade without using Beckett as a resource.

  2. #2
    Gee... I think they woukld trade card for card Like some of us did in the 60's and 70's! I need/Like that guy and you like /need that guy. There is too much emphasis on bv these days because the collectors of the last 10-15 years know nothing else except what the cards are worth.
    I'm not saying everyone is this way, But look at 85% of the responses to trade threads, "Whats the BV"
    This is an old , stale statement, But is still true..

    "It's only worth what someone's willing to pay for it."

    p.s. I really liked this thread and you have made some good points, although Neither I or others will agree 100%.

    I'm giving you 50 Card cash for the post! Congrads

  3. #3
    Hey....great read!! :)

    IMO people put waaaay too much into BV (beckett). For those who need a guide to go by, then I guess its cool, but I couldn't care less if I ever had to use one...the ONLY reason I ever pick one up is when I am working a trade with folks who go strictly by beckett. I wouldn't mind trading straight up for anything I needed be it a RC, Auto, or one of the players I collect. Actually, the beckett we have here is generally so outdated, I have to leave it up to the other person to LMK the BV's....lol.

    Actually I am in the midst of a trade right now (just sent the cards
    out today) in which no bv was even mentioned! I am getting a bunch of autographs, he is getting a bunch of yucky GU (lol), and we are both happy with the deal! Not once was BV mentioned.
    The thing that ticks me off, is when making a trade, and being told, "well, my card books for $15 and yours is $12, so can you throw in a $3 to make up the difference?" Sorry, but that seems so petty to me. If you want the card you are trading for, and they want the card they are trading for...WHO CARES! I know I have offered 25CC here and 50CC there to make up $$ in a trade....but I would not expect it. It's not that big a deal to me...lol.
    The ONLY time I will not give someone extra in trade is if they are a scumbag card show dealer (NOTE: I am NOT saying all card show dealers are scum, I am saying there are some who are...lol)
    and THOSE are the ones I would not deal with. I used to do shows myself :)

    As far as buying stuff.....it all depends on what I pay. If it seems like a good deal for me, I will pay it, if it isn't worth it to me I won't. I have a set price in my mind already for what I will pay for something. What ticks me off are those who sell for an inflated price but want you to "give them a steal" when you are selling to them......whatever!

    I only trade for autographs, because that is all I collect (except for my guys :)) but I would trade a GU or auto for a Prentice RC or some such thing I don't have yet...I have done it many times before. If I need it and the cards I have for trade are collecting dust, why not trade?? It's silly if you ask me!!

    As far as what my collection is "worth" I don't have the foggiest idea! I know some of the BV of some of the cards because I remember them from having them listed to me in the trade, but I don't feel like looking them up! They give me much enjoyment no matter what!

    Well...I will stop now, i have no idea what I just wrote, or if it makes a bit of sense :p as it has been one of those days lol

    Thanks again for the great read SMD :D

    Peace,
    Rima
    ~COLLECTING specific Chris Brown autos & multi color patches
    ~Collecting Hakeem Nicks, Stepfan Taylor, Mario Manningham, Geno Smith and Victor Cruz Auto's

    TRADE LIST:
    Hidden Content

  4. #4
    Originally posted by BlackDiam0nd66
    Hey....great read!! :)

    IMO people put waaaay too much into BV (beckett). For those who need a guide to go by, then I guess its cool, but I couldn't care less if I ever had to use one...the ONLY reason I ever pick one up is when I am working a trade with folks who go strictly by beckett. I wouldn't mind trading straight up for anything I needed be it a RC, Auto, or one of the players I collect. Actually, the beckett we have here is generally so outdated, I have to leave it up to the other person to LMK the BV's....lol.

    I am praying that one day, you get a gem mint Jerry Rice rookie card, b/c I would LOVE to trade you straight up for a card you need. No BV used.

    hehehehe



    :D :D :D

  5. #5
    There is no offense meant to you Podstock, so do not take it that way. You probably meant that as a joke, so that is how I will take it. This is what I hate about the hobby. People expecting your best card for something you just want.

    If I know a guy is going to sell, or try to sell, the card they are asking me for, I won't even consider the trade because I want to trade with people like myself who don't want to sell their stuff or make money off of people. That is what drives the greed in this hobby and ruins the fun. I am not saying I wouldn't love it if my cards went up in book value, but after collecting as a kid I pretty much know that whatever I have now will sell for nothing near what I paid for it, even the stuff off of ebay. That is about the only thing that graded cards are for... Sorry to get off topic.

  6. #6
    I guess my bashing is for two reasons mostly. Firstly more on a general philosophical level, the emergence of Beckett as a serious player in the hobby kind of signaled a death of innocence for the hobby. Maybe it had to happen or it was just inevitable but I resent it and Beckett is the symbol of that death so I resent them too. Secondly, I've never trusted their pricing even a decade ago because of some of the things other people have mentioned (regionality, timely updates, etc.) but also because it seemed to me that Beckett was more of a pimp for the card companies than an objective evaluator for card prices. You see their close relationships with shows, promoters, and the card companies and I think it affects what they feature in their magazines, how they hype certain things, and how they do their pricing. In a sense, it's like a politician who's funded by powerful corporations so the politician does what's necessary to keep the funding coming and remain in power. I think Beckett does the same thing to keep it's standing with the card companies and maintain it's foot hold in the hobby.

    In regard to buying, selling, trading, and whatever. I don't collect cards other than to get them autographed so I never buy boxes or packs, I just buy singles of prospects. I'm usually on a self-imposed budget so I won't pay more than $2 or so for a single card unless it's really a scorching prospect. If you know the quality of the prospects out you can have a general idea how much a card should go for compared to other prospects. I've found that when people know you're just getting cards to get autographed that they usually don't try to gouge you as much on the prices, my local card shop owner is great about this. I usually trade one for one unless one prospect is much better than the other, then I trade one for two/three or whatever.

  7. #7
    I think the only reason I hate beckett as it has made the majority of traders put a set value on everything and that they stick buy it sometimes dow to the penny. Very rare I come across a trader now who will trade cards he/she doesn't want for cards he/she needs, that is what bugs me, beckett has taken some of the fun out of the Hobby and has replaced it with a more business like atmosphere.

  8. #8
    What about cards from a set that have different Multipliers on them?

    I HATE THAT!!! (I.E.) Donruss Elite- The Aspitarion cards #'d to /99 or so are Multiplied 20X for the regular cards, but a RC card that is an Aspiration #'d to the same is only 1.2X. I think that is a crock! If it is the same set and the same # it should be the same Multipliers. I would rather have a RC #'d to /99 than 1 #'d to /500 because there are less and they should be more valuable because they are more rare. I think if it is a #'d card from the same set the same multipliers should be used and not make it multiplied by less because it is a RC.


    Just my $.02

    Jim

  9. #9
    good debate so far and i vale uall of your input.

    Ricefan, I think the reason why Elite aspirations cards are 20x for the common player and 1.2 x a rookie would be because there are thousands of the common, so the multiplier for a #/99 is a really big deal, where with the rookies, they are already short printed so they only get a little value multiplier to it. Could you imagine a Palmer #/80 that is 20x$50? I think that is a little crazy, and people would not pay that much.

    Heartattaq,
    I have started realizing that there are some cards i want more than some that I already have, so for those cards i really want, I am offering up 2x book of my basketball and hockey for stuff I would rather have. I wont take anything at all and give out that type of deal, but in my case, if I can attract some more trades for things I want, so be it.

    I also fell pray to the wanting exactly book for this one card, and turning down a trade because his was $15, and mine was $20, because he wouldn't throw in a $5 card. I guess i feel dumb about that one and looking back on it, i wish I would have made the trade because it was for something i wanted more. Now that I have had more time on these message boards, and reading other people's opinions, my trading habits are changing a little.

  10. #10
    Nice thread SMD!

    50 CC to chris too for the nice reply.

    I personally have no problem w/ Beckett and like it a lot. However, I don't use the price guide near as much as I used to. There are enough people on ebay that it is a true market now. I generally track and manage prices of closed auctions and take an average of the last few ending auction prices for a card to get a "true" current value. JMO.

    BGray
    SCF Founder
    BIG Props to everyone at SCF as you chase 14 Million posts!

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