separation of church and state

[shrewsbury]

tom, I have no issue with creationism or ID not be taught as facts or even in relation to evolution. but I also think it is wise to know what others believe and teaching religion as faith and not fact is a good thing.

like others said, evolution is a theory not a fact but it is a great, complex, well thought out theory and it makes sense, an is a huge part of science and should be taught. me nor wickabee are saying throw out science or logic, we are saying don't throw out religion just because you don't believe. this is as bad as the 6000 year old earthers, all logic has been thrown out with them.

[Wickabee]

Knowledge is knowing my brakes work.
Faith is believing they will stop my car without first thoroughly inspecting them.

[drtom2005]

Knowledge is knowing my brakes work.
Faith is believing they will stop my car without first thoroughly inspecting them.

I disagree and that is where we have a difference of opinion. And quite, frankly, evolution is like your brakes that have been thoroughly inspected.

[JustAlex]

Knowledge is knowing my brakes work.
Faith is believing they will stop my car without first thoroughly inspecting them.

Your comparison is a bit off because you already KNOW that the brakes are there and they have worked in the past.

However, it would be faith if you said: "I have faith that if my brakes stopped working, I will be Ok".

Faith is the firm belief in something or someone without any proof.

Consider the following:

Do you have faith that when you get on an airplane, it will safely land?

After all, you don't know for certain that it will land.

Actually, that's not faith at all....it's a reliable confidence.

This reliable confidence is grounded in evidence.

The evidence is that we have seen an airplane fly and land safely countless of times before.



Actually, this is where Faith vs. Reason comes in.

It is Reasonable to believe that when you get on an airplane it will safely land....it would be faith to believe that IF an airplane crashed to the ground, you won't die.

[drtom2005]

tom, I have no issue with creationism or ID not be taught as facts or even in relation to evolution. but I also think it is wise to know what others believe and teaching religion as faith and not fact is a good thing.

like others said, evolution is a theory not a fact but it is a great, complex, well thought out theory and it makes sense, an is a huge part of science and should be taught. me nor wickabee are saying throw out science or logic, we are saying don't throw out religion just because you don't believe. this is as bad as the 6000 year old earthers, all logic has been thrown out with them.

This is the issue though. Our government does not allow religion into public classrooms. Until creationism/ID makes predictions like evolution, it is not science. It should not be in public schools. It is not the equal of evolution. The controversy starts when it has some evidence.

Evolution is not an attack on religion. It is the scientific understanding of how all living things on Earth change. Nothing more. It makes no statement on god.

[Wickabee]

Your comparison is a bit off because you already KNOW that the brakes are there and they have worked in the past.

However, it would be faith if you said: "I have faith that if my brakes stopped working, I will be Ok".

Faith is the firm belief in something or someone without any proof.

Consider the following:

Do you have faith that when you get on an airplane, it will safely land?

After all, you don't know for certain that it will land.

Actually, that's not faith at all....it's a reliable confidence.

This reliable confidence is grounded in evidence.

The evidence is that we have seen an airplane fly and land safely countless of times before.



Actually, this is where Faith vs. Reason comes in.

It is Reasonable to believe that when you get on an airplane it will safely land....it would be faith to believe that IF an airplane crashed to the ground, you won't die.

You don't believe faith can be based on reason. Yes, my brakes worked last time. Does that mean they will work next time? Common wisdom says yes and I have little doubt they will. But do I know if the line has been cut? It probably hasn't, but it's possible. When I get in my car in the morning, I have some amount of faith that my car will stop when I tell it to. I don't know for certain but I believe that it will.

Not all faith is baseless.

[JustAlex]

Evolution is not an attack on religion. It is the scientific understanding of how all living things on Earth change. Nothing more. It makes no statement on god.

And that's why one can believe in god and accept evolution as fact at the same time.

The problem is with the book of Genesis (in concern to christians).

The majority of christians hold these writings to be 100% literal truth.

God created the world, animals and man in their present form only days apart from each other.

Because of this, evolution to the literal Genesis believer is a major contradiction and they can't come to grips with it.

How can evolution and genesis be both true?

Well, they can't.....UNLESS, Genesis isn't literally true.

And one only has to think carefully about it....

God created plants before the sun? (How did they grow?)

God created light before the universe? (Where did this light source come from?)

The bible also says that the Moon has light....(Isaiah 30:26).....We know this to be untrue.

Can't we logically conclude that at the very least, some of the bible isn't literally truth?

You don't believe faith can be based on reason. Yes, my brakes worked last time. Does that mean they will work next time? Common wisdom says yes and I have little doubt they will. But do I know if the line has been cut? It probably hasn't, but it's possible.

Occam's Razor comes into play here.

Yes, someone might have cut your line....they also might have planted a bomb in your car.

Do you have faith that your car doesn't have a bomb within it?