Thornton’s 1,000th assist set to put him in exclusive company

[30ranfordfan]

Sorry, I'll rephrase.

The 'NO' comments were regards to winning the Cup ('YES' means they've already won).

Of the 7 guys on the list that have never won a Cup, I find it very unlikely that any of them ever will:

Thornton & Marleau - I suppose this year is still a fair shot for them..... but if they don't win it this year, are the Sharks a team that's going to improve significantly, without overhauling their roster (and specifically using the money tied up in these two elsewhere) ??

Iginla & Doan - Both at the end of their careers. Maybe done after this season, can't rule out the possibility of one more year for either. They could both be moved @ the deadline (Iginla especially) but what are the chances they actually get moved to the winner? "Not likely" is the answer.

Sedins - Vancouver is going to get worse before they get better. I see little chance of them ever contending while the Sedins are still playing.

Ovechkin - What are the odds he'll actually win one? Is he ever going to have a better group of players around him than he has in the recent years? I suppose it's possible... but he's been on REALLY good teams for most of his career. He (and the Caps) are probably due for some down years soon.


The point I was trying to make... is that Championships don't make you a HOFer.... at least I don't think they do.

Thornton, Iginla, and Ovechkin are kinda automatic HOFers at this point (I think).

So I'll use Shane Doan as my example. Maybe some feel he's a HOFer, maybe some do not. (I would say, but that isn't really the point).

If he retires after this season, never leaving the Coyotes.... or he's traded to the Penguins, chips in 4 goals during the playoffs, and wins a Cup.... have his HOF credentials really changed? Would that alter someone's opinion?

I don't think it should.

If the Sharks were to win this year... yeah, Marleau would (likely) be a big (enough) contributor that maybe it does alter the resume somewhat.

As for Ciccerelli... if I'm removing players from the HOF for not being good enough, he's not even close to the top of my list (cough, Cam Neely, cough).

All I can say about this, and I don't mean to slag anyone or their fans or careers, but when you look at this list, and consider past Hall voting, the NHL has made some very interesting choices on who gets elected! Are you suggesting that 7 of the players listed don't get in? If so, all I can add is one name to verify that, when it comes to Hall voting, ANYTHING is possible! That name? Dino Ciccerelli! He's in, so pretty much every name on that list should get in! I'm actually a little surprised Andreychuk isn't in.

[SenatorCollector]

I'm not saying Ciccerelli wasn't good enough. All I'm saying is that, based on what the standard criteria seems to be, based on public knowledge and general consensus, he shouldn't be in. Not to slag the man's accomplishments, because he did put up very impressive numbers, and he did so having ( to the best of my knowledge ) never played on a Cup winning team, but he's also got no real individual accolades of note. Never won a scoring title like Dionne, or League MVP like Lindros. Thornton and Marleau are 2 players that, like my all time favourite Senator, Daniel Alfredsson, I would consider to be almost definite possible maybes, ya know? The only thing missing for these three players, is a Championship. I think if anything sways the vote in their favour, it'll be International accomplishments.

[30ranfordfan]

Alfie is a good example of what I'm trying to get at.

Personally, I would lean towards HOF.... but maybe not strongly enough for me to say "lock".

49 Points in his final season didn't make him a bit player on the Red Wings....

Let's say the Red Wings win the Cup in 13-14. Takes them 22 games to do it. Alfredsson puts up a respectable 6 goals & 8 assists in those 22 games (yeah, I'm just making stuff up).

Does that alter anyone's opinion of his career? Has he gone from "not a HOFer" to "HOFer" in anyone's mind ??

I'm not saying Ciccerelli wasn't good enough. All I'm saying is that, based on what the standard criteria seems to be, based on public knowledge and general consensus, he shouldn't be in. Not to slag the man's accomplishments, because he did put up very impressive numbers, and he did so having ( to the best of my knowledge ) never played on a Cup winning team, but he's also got no real individual accolades of note. Never won a scoring title like Dionne, or League MVP like Lindros. Thornton and Marleau are 2 players that, like my all time favourite Senator, Daniel Alfredsson, I would consider to be almost definite possible maybes, ya know? The only thing missing for these three players, is a Championship. I think if anything sways the vote in their favour, it'll be International accomplishments.

[SenatorCollector]

Alfie is a good example of what I'm trying to get at.

Personally, I would lean towards HOF.... but maybe not strongly enough for me to say "lock".

49 Points in his final season didn't make him a bit player on the Red Wings....

Let's say the Red Wings win the Cup in 13-14. Takes them 22 games to do it. Alfredsson puts up a respectable 6 goals & 8 assists in those 22 games (yeah, I'm just making stuff up).

Does that alter anyone's opinion of his career? Has he gone from "not a HOFer" to "HOFer" in anyone's mind ??

I actually had this discussion with a regular customer of mine. We agreed Alfredsson will get in, but not a first ballot HOF'er
My thinking is that Cups shouldn't matter. How consistently excellent was the quality of your game over the course of your career? Guys like Henrik Lundquist get my vote before a Henrik Seeing because the man never really has an off night!

[Devlin]

I don't think Cups should matter either.