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  1. #41





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    That longevity, however, is the same reason that I won't rank Emmitt (a Gator) ahead of Barry Sanders, who played far fewer seasons. Plus put him behind that OLine and with Irvin and Aikman and he DESTROYS Emmitt's numbers.

    I agree on Barry!

    I'm sorry, but stats alone are just not a good barometer for GOAT, especially considering the context of rule changes. What would Jordan have done with the hand check rule in effect like it is today? He'd average 60 points per game. You breath on a dude today and a ref blows the whistle. I think Lebron is probably close to as effective as he is today in the NBA of the 90s, but Jordan would have been unstoppable under today's rules.

    Today? Yeah, MJ could have averaged 40ppg but not in Kobe's era ... his ppg would have been far lower in Kobe's era ... just look at the difference in league-wide ppg and you'll see what I mean. When Kobe averaged 35+ ppg that represented a higher % of points when measured against the league than when Jordan averaged 37+ppg ... that is a fact.

    In Jordan's era scoring was easy and league-wide scoring was incredibly high ... it dropped dramatically in Kobe's era and is now going right back up. those are undisputable facts.


    Wilt, by all accounts, cared more about stats than maybe anyone that ever played in the league. This is a dude who led the league in assists one year just because he wanted to prove he could do it. He won two rings.

    What other center could lead the league in assists? Wilt was a bad, bad man ... his two rings are probably one more than he should have had actually ... the Celtics were loaded during his era and a great player doesn't beat a great team.

    Give me the consumate teammate - Bill Russell - all day, every day. He was a dude who mastered blocking a shot TO his teammate rather than throwing it into the front row a la Dwight Howard, because blocking a shot into the stands gives the other team possession. And, he's got 11 titles to show for it. No one will come CLOSE to sniffing 11 rings ever again. And, he won his last two as player coach.

    Bill was a great leader and teammate ... but he was a far inferior basketball player when compared to Chamberlain ... it wasn't even close ... it's like saying Robert Horry was better than Barkley ... it's absurd.

    Karl Malone is second all time in scoring and top ten in rebounding, and does anyone consider him in the top ten players ever? Top 20?

    I think quite a few would have him in the top 20 ...

    You just can't use stats as a way to decide who's the best ever. If Lebron doesn't win another ring - and really, two more - then I don't think you can anoint him GOAT.

    That's nonsense imho ... not the stats thing but the LeBron thing ... LeBron has already won more conference titles than Jordan and when he finally hangs em up his numbers and wins will dwarf Jordan's ... it's not as if we're comparing an obviously inferior player who just happens to have better stats with a far superior player that happens to have lesser stats ... we're comparing two GOAT's of their era and one of those GOATs (Lebron) will have stats that dwarf the other.

    Go Grizzlies.

    Yeah, sure, go grizzlies! I'm not a Griz fan at all BUT I like them more than the Spurs, so, go Grizz, go, lol.

  2. #42





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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...injury-big-toe

    Blake Griffin to miss rest of postseason with injury to big toe

    The Clips are irrelevant which is sad ... their fans really thought when the NBA stole the team from Sterling and allowed Balmer to "buy" it that a title was coming ... not even close. I wouldn't be surprised if either CP3 bolts this summer and signs with another team or Blake Griffin is traded ... their roster just doesn't work, at least not on a championship level.

  3. #43





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    Bill was a great leader and teammate ... but he was a far inferior basketball player when compared to Chamberlain ... it wasn't even close ... it's like saying Robert Horry was better than Barkley ... it's absurd.

    This is just crazy talk. Wilt was traded twice...in his prime. Yes, the Celts were loaded during that era. However, Wilt played with Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich. Let's not underrate the team around Wilt, as those are Hall of Famers he was playing with.

    Khendra - sorry to threadjack your playoff thread ;)

  4. #44







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    LOL. To be fair, I was the one who brought up an MJ comparison. I shouldn't be surprised to see it side-track from there.

    What I'll do is start a separate thread for those who want to keep debating this to debate it from all the angles they see fit.

  5. #45





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    This is just crazy talk. Wilt was traded twice...in his prime. Yes, the Celts were loaded during that era. However, Wilt played with Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich. Let's not underrate the team around Wilt, as those are Hall of Famers he was playing with.

    Wilt dominated Bill head-to-head and everyone from that era knows Wilt was the most unstoppable force around ... anyone who doesn't understand that is either ignorant or a Celtics homer like Bill Silly Simmons ... Russell was a cog in the Celtics dynastic machine ... Wilt was a machine all by himself.

  6. #46





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    Wilt dominated Bill head-to-head and everyone from that era knows Wilt was the most unstoppable force around ... anyone who doesn't understand that is either ignorant or a Celtics homer like Bill Silly Simmons ... Russell was a cog in the Celtics dynastic machine ... Wilt was a machine all by himself.

    Sure - statistically, it's not even close. But, by all first-hand accounts, Wilt was a selfish jerk who cared more about his stats than his teammates, and Russell was the exact opposite. Who's to say if Russell didn't have that attitude he could not have put up the same gaudy stats.

    Again - hence why arguably the most dominating player of all time got traded.

    Twice.

    In his prime.

    Can you imagine ANY scenario where MJ or LeBron got traded?

    I can't/won't get past the whole 11 titles vs. 2 titles thing. The two times they faced in the finals - when it matters most - Wilt lost. And, as far as games, they played 142 times and Russell won 88 of them. The stats clearly favor Wilt, but I imagine you can ask every single player in the NBA right now (except for maybe Carmelo Anthony) and they would take Russell's 11 titles over the numbers EVERY SINGLE TIME.

  7. #47







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    Warriors 45 pts in the first quarter. C.J. McCollum 0 for 9 and -32 with him in the game. lol wow. Glad I'm not a Blazers fan right now

  8. #48





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    Sure - statistically, it's not even close.

    Yup ... because Wilt was a far superior player.

    But, by all first-hand accounts, Wilt was a selfish jerk who cared more about his stats than his teammates, and Russell was the exact opposite. Who's to say if Russell didn't have that attitude he could not have put up the same gaudy stats.

    You've got to be kidding me ... Russell was basically the exact same size as Tayshaun Prince and had no offensive game ... he played on loaded teams and was a great leader that did his job exquisitely ... Wilt was just a monster ... again, this isn't even a debate ... it'd be like debating Robert Horry v Karl Malone ... it's just silly.

    Again - hence why arguably the most dominating player of all time got traded

    Twice.

    In his prime.


    Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky, two GOATS were traded in their primes too ... and Shaq got traded too ... who cares, that is entirely irrelevant.


    Can you imagine ANY scenario where MJ or LeBron got traded?


    YES and YES! LeBron actually was traded though most people think he just "signed" with Miami ... and while you're reply will probably be, "yeah, but LeBron forced that trade, it's not the same thing", allow me to enlighten you on Wilt's trade to the Lakers ... according to Dr. Jack Ramsey Wilt also forced that trade as he absolutely refused to ever play another game with Philly! As for the time Wilt was traded to Philly, from what I understand it was all about money ... Chamberlain was breaking the bank in Golden State and the NBA's highest paid player making $65k and the team wanted cash and they got around $300k plus a bunch of players for Wilt ... so, $300,000 is 4.615x Chamberlain's salary of $65k ... the highest paid center in the game today is Al Horford who made $26,540,100 this year so it would be like a team offering the Celtics a bunch of players and around $122,000,000 cash ... that's a whopper of a deal and akin to the transfer fees that go on in soccer.

    Now, as for Jordan ... you may not have known this but according to Sam Smith, author of "The Jordan Rules", the Bulls actually wanted to trade Jordan for the #1 and #6 picks in the 1988 draft but the deal fell through, and that from what I understand this was actually the second time the Clippers almost acquired Jordan via trade as the Bulls were interested in dumping their draft pick that netted them Jordan for the Clippers Terry Cummings.

    The whole "Wilt was traded so Russell was better" is one of Celtics-homer Bill Silly Simmons statements and it's just goofy and doesn't hold water.


    I can't/won't get past the whole 11 titles vs. 2 titles thing. The two times they faced in the finals - when it matters most - Wilt lost. And, as far as games, they played 142 times and Russell won 88 of them. The stats clearly favor Wilt, but I imagine you can ask every single player in the NBA right now (except for maybe Carmelo Anthony) and they would take Russell's 11 titles over the numbers EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    Ask every single player and coach and GM and scout and fan on earth if Robert Horry (who won more rings than Jordan!!) was better than Charles Barkely or Karl Malone (who never won a single ring) and 100% of them will say "NO WAY, only an idiot would think Horry is better than those guys" ... again, Russell was a cog in the Dynastic Celtics machine ... Wilt was a machine all by himself.

    It sincerely irks me when people try to evaluate individual dominance based on T-E-A-M success ... it's just dumb. NBA basketball is not boxing or tennis ... it's a T-E-A-M sport and one great player does not beat great teams ... if they did LeBron and Jordan would each have more rings than fingers ...
    Last edited by Jameis1of1; 04-25-2017 at 01:35 AM.

  9. #49





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    Ask every single player and coach and GM and scout and fan on earth if Robert Horry (who won more rings than Jordan!!) was better than Charles Barkely or Karl Malone (who never won a single ring) and 100% of them will say "NO WAY, only an idiot would think Horry is better than those guys" ... again, Russell was a cog in the Dynastic Celtics machine ... Wilt was a machine all by himself.

    The Horry = Russell argument holds no water. I understand what you're trying to imply, but it's not the same.

    And Lebron was "traded" to Miami? What in the world are you talking about? He was an unrestricted free agent.

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