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Thread: Cavs send Kyrie Irving to Celtics in deal including Isaiah Thomas and 2018 1st round pick + more
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08-22-2017, 09:17 PM #1
Cavs send Kyrie Irving to Celtics in deal including Isaiah Thomas and 2018 1st round pick + more
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-isaiah-thomas
The Boston Celtics have acquired All-Star point guard Kyrie Irving from the Cleveland Cavaliers for point guard Isaiah Thomas, forward Jae Crowder, center Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's 2018 unprotected first-round pick, the team announced Tuesday night.
"Kyrie is one of the best scorers in the NBA. He has proven that on the biggest stage, the NBA Finals, the last three years," said Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge. "He's been an NBA Champion, an Olympic Gold Medalist, and a four-time All-Star. For all he's accomplished, we think his best years are ahead of him."
Irving, 25, requested a trade during a July meeting with Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has said that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.
Irving has three years and $60 million left on his contract, but he can opt out of the final year before the 2019-20 season.
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08-22-2017, 10:33 PM #2
IMHO the Celtics got fleeced and barring any serious injury LeBron will easily advance to his 8th straight and 9th overall NBA Finals this season.
I also think this trade may assure LeBron stays in Cleveland beyond next season as I expect the Nets pick Cleveland received to be a top 3 pick which they could use to draft a star rookie or maybe even package with one of their current players to ensure a massive upgrade ... something like the Nets #1 and Tristan for DeMarcus Cousins in a S&T comes to mind ... would LeBron really go to the Western Conference where it will be very difficult to even advance to the Finals rather than stay in Cleveland with IT, Love AND Boogie? I doubt it!
It wouldn't shock me to see LeBron stay in Cleveland another 4 years after this one, advance to his 12th straight Finals and 13th overall ... and then finish out his career with the Lakers when he's well past his prime ...
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08-23-2017, 06:22 PM #3
I think it was a fair deal on both sides
Ainge couldn't get a better offer despite other teams getting Butler or PG for less. Let's not forget Bulls asking price for Butler was BKN pick, LAL pick, the #3 that turned into Tatum in addition to the fillers to match salaries, which likely would have meant including Bradley at the time and they would not have been able to add depth with Morris.
Trading away IT who they didn't plan to extend saves them money as Kyrie is on the books at a cheaper price of 18mil/year for at least two years. Crowder is valuable but incredibly redundant in a team that is going to be starting Hayward at the 3, which would cut into his minutes significantly. Let's not forget they drafted Brown, Tatum, AND Ojeleye in addition to getting a small forward from FA. It was an obvious and blatant message to Crowder that the Celtics only viewed him as an asset and were merely buying time to replace him because of his skillset andcheap contract. Finally, BKN pick had to be included to be a fair deal. Kyrie is worth more than a 1 year IT rental and crowder. Initially Cleveland wanted Tatum, but a lottery pick for next year's draft class full of elite bigs (although very few) is a consolation prize. That being said, Cleveland is merely getting enough assets to likely package for more veterans to join Lebron and Rose (and possibly Wade).
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08-23-2017, 07:55 PM #4
I totally agree with both of these and I'm utterly shocked that some people actually thought the Celtics did well on this trade. Not only do I think they overpaid but they basically gave the Cavs and Lebron new life which is just going to do more damage to the Celtics in the long run.
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08-23-2017, 10:44 PM #5
Exactly!
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08-23-2017, 10:58 PM #6
Boston got fleeced imho.
Ainge couldn't get a better offer despite other teams getting Butler or PG for less. Let's not forget Bulls asking price for Butler was BKN pick, LAL pick, the #3 that turned into Tatum in addition to the fillers to match salaries, which likely would have meant including Bradley at the time and they would not have been able to add depth with Morris.
Morris didn't add depth as they had to dump Olynk ... they just replaced Olynk with Morris which may have been a bad, bad move.
The C's are worse now than they were last year imo.
They lost IT/Bradley/Crowder/Olynk and replaced them with Kyrie/Tatum/Hayward/Morris ... as I see it they are more "talented" now and have a higher ceiling that they could maximize years from now, but for next year, they will be worse as they will have no chemistry, will be led by a malcontent in Kyrie and replaced two great teammate and glue guys in Bradley and Crowder with a rookie (Tatum) and another malcontent (Morris) ...
However the reason the Celtics got FLEECED is because on top of all of the above they also gave away the Nets pick which most likely will be the #1 pick in the draft and I'll say right now that Michael Porter could become a better NBA player than Kyrie Irving ... they don't call MP "Baby KD" for nothing!
Trading away IT who they didn't plan to extend saves them money as Kyrie is on the books at a cheaper price of 18mil/year for at least two years. Crowder is valuable but incredibly redundant in a team that is going to be starting Hayward at the 3, which would cut into his minutes significantly. Let's not forget they drafted Brown, Tatum, AND Ojeleye in addition to getting a small forward from FA. It was an obvious and blatant message to Crowder that the Celtics only viewed him as an asset and were merely buying time to replace him because of his skillset andcheap contract. Finally, BKN pick had to be included to be a fair deal. Kyrie is worth more than a 1 year IT rental and crowder. Initially Cleveland wanted Tatum, but a lottery pick for next year's draft class full of elite bigs (although very few) is a consolation prize.
I hear ya ... I'm just not as high on Kyrie as many others are ... the kid has never won anything without LeBron, not even 30 games in a year ... to me, he's more Stephon Marbury than Kobe Bryant (who he seems to think he is) ... I'm just not high on Kyrie and my guess is that IT will re-up with the Cavs and that they will get Michael Porter, so if you're telling me that Porter, Thomas, Crowder and Zizic for Stephon Marbury 2.0 is a "fair trade", forgive me if I don't agree.
That being said, Cleveland is merely getting enough assets to likely package for more veterans to join Lebron and Rose (and possibly Wade).
You may be right ... it wouldn't shock me to see LeBron push them into trading the Nets pick along with Tristan for DeMarcus Cousins which could give the Cavs a loaded all-star team with: IT/Wade/LeBron/Love/Cousins and even a loaded bench with Rose/JR/Green/Crowder/Zizic ... with quality role players like Korver, Shumpert, Richard Jefferson and Jose Calderon as their 11-14th guys ... that's a stacked team that could knock off the Warriors in the Finals.
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08-24-2017, 07:01 PM #7
When I first saw the trade I thought the Celtics got robbed and this was the key piece for me. That draft pick has the potential to be a big piece. Now for the people saying it is an even trade or even that the Celtics won ask yourself this. Can you imagine this deal working out poorly for the Cavs? Under no circumstance can I see that happening. Yeah I can see it working out well for both teams but I can also see it working out very poorly for the Celtics. The same can't be said for the Cavs because let's just say it doesn't turn into a #1 pick. Let's say it is like a #3-#5 pick. The Cavs can still package that with something else to land a star to go along with Lebron and keep him in Cleveland.
Now I was never too high on Irving so maybe I'm a little more biased than others but he was unhappy with the Cavs so they had to move him and even though they were in a tight spot to move him they basically got at worse a star back in return for him with the the upside of even more. That's one heck of a job by the Cavs GM from a team that is in direct competing competition to the Cavs as well. I mean when does something like this ever occur? If I was a Cavs fan I'd be extremely happy because not only do they come out like winners in this deal it also increases the chances that Lebron stays which is to be hones the only thing the Cavs have going for them. If he would have left again the team would of become a basement dweller again.
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08-25-2017, 12:32 AM #8
^ I agree 100%
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08-25-2017, 01:07 AM #9
1. marcus morris is a tweener and doesn't play the same position as olynyck. the very depth people talk about when losing out on crowder is really covered by hayward who is an upgrade at the 3 and morris who can back up that position in addition to being cross covered by someone like jaylen brown who can play both the 2 and the 3. then there's semi ojeleye who is a classic 3 + D player. marcus smart will likely cover any tough guards, both 1s and 2s. olynyck...well let's just say the only thing the Cs haven't improved over the offseason is one of their biggest weaknesses, which is rebounding. tatum is not a good rebounder and they're stuck with horford who is overall a good player but not an elite rebounder.
2. hayward played on a utah team with gobert and hill and was able to get to 50 wins. him moving to the east coast and playing with a great coach, defensive minded squad, and more offensive talent in a much weaker conference can really only elevate his game. he has a better pg in kyrie, and while gobert is a significantly better center (his advanced stats are amazing) defensively, horford is a more significant offensive threat. add that to tatum who is nba ready, and hayward will really get to utilize mismatches in any iso he gets. teams certainly can't afford to double on hayward with the scoring threats in the paint. i think the Cs hit 50 wins easily.
3. the bkn pick isn't a #1 pick until the lottery actually happens. celtics weren't going to use the pick since they have so many rookies to develop. ainge already passed on trading this year's pick or next year's brooklyn pick for butler. who else were the Cs going to get? owning a draft pick might have high perceived value, but it's not of value until you actually get what you want out of it. after striking out on paul george and jimmy butler, and the nets getting dangelo russell and allen crabbe in the offseason, the value of that pick has dropped. you might be high on michael porter jr or even marvin bagley - but tbh, i think the 2018 class has a massive drop off of talent after those two and the 2018 class in general is weaker from both peak talent and depth compared to the 2017 class.Last edited by halekulani; 08-25-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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08-25-2017, 11:44 AM #10
As the Donald would say, "wrong" ... Morris will replace Kelly as the Celtics starting PF.
the very depth people talk about when losing out on crowder is really covered by hayward who is an upgrade at the 3 and morris who can back up that position in addition to being cross covered by someone like jaylen brown who can play both the 2 and the 3. then there's semi ojeleye who is a classic 3 + D player. marcus smart will likely cover any tough guards, both 1s and 2s. olynyck...well let's just say the only thing the Cs haven't improved over the offseason is one of their biggest weaknesses, which is rebounding. tatum is not a good rebounder and they're stuck with horford who is overall a good player but not an elite rebounder.
I agree with all of the above ... the C's are still very deep ... they're just not as good imho. I honestly think the Cavs would obliterate them in 5 games or less in a series ... the gap widened in Cleveland's favor this offseason imho.
2. hayward played on a utah team with gobert and hill and was able to get to 50 wins. him moving to the east coast and playing with a great coach, defensive minded squad, and more offensive talent in a much weaker conference can really only elevate his game. he has a better pg in kyrie, and while gobert is a significantly better center (his advanced stats are amazing) defensively, horford is a more significant offensive threat. add that to tatum who is nba ready, and hayward will really get to utilize mismatches in any iso he gets. teams certainly can't afford to double on hayward with the scoring threats in the paint. i think the Cs hit 50 wins easily.
I think they hit 50 wins as well and might even still get the #1 seed as LeBron doesn't care about his seed and may take some time off in the middle of the year ... but ... come playoff time Boston will get destroyed by Cleveland yet again.
3. the bkn pick isn't a #1 pick until the lottery actually happens.
There are FIVE guys that have #1 overall talent in next year's draft ... FIVE (Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Ayton and another center who I forgot) ... Boston was INSANE to include this pick imho as it sets the Cavs up for years, makes it less likely LeBron will leave anytime soon, etc ... to me Ainge just killed the Celtics' chances at winning the East for years!
celtics weren't going to use the pick since they have so many rookies to develop.
Nonsense. They were going to use it over getting Butler or George ... a Smart/Brown/Porter/Tatum/Zizic young 5 would have been astounding ... they just think Kyrie is worth it ... and I do NOT as I view him as far closer to Stephon Marbury than Kobe
ainge already passed on trading this year's pick or next year's brooklyn pick for butler. who else were the Cs going to get? owning a draft pick might have high perceived value, but it's not of value until you actually get what you want out of it. after striking out on paul george and jimmy butler, and the nets getting dangelo russell and allen crabbe in the offseason, the value of that pick has dropped.
Dropped? Are you kidding me? Bagley just reclassified recently so he's now in the draft as well and he has #1 overall talent ... FIVE dudes with #1 overall talent ... the pick has increased in value ... Aine just fell in love with Starbury 2.0 ... poor Boston.
you might be high on michael porter jr or even marvin bagley - but tbh, i think the 2018 class has a massive drop off of talent after those two and the 2018 class in general is weaker from both peak talent and depth compared to the 2017 class.
I think you're crazy ... Porter/Bagley/Doncic/Ayton/other C are all bad, bad boys ...
And honestly, it's not even about the pick, it's all about LeBron as everything in the NBA is ... if this trade becomes the reason LeBron stays in Cleveland, Danny Ainge just murdered the Celtics ...
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