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  1. #11
    Thanks Jameis1of1 for your comments and I agree about ESPN Max Kellerman political propaganda comments. ESPN and announcers of sports games have became very bias and I would rather watch the game with no volume.

    I have changed my view of protesting the flag as spitting on me because most of the players have never been in the military and don't really understand pride for there country. The protesting is like you said what really are they protesting. Let's play the game and not protest on the field but protest on your own time since you are who our kids look up to and want to model and what are you telling the kids by protesting.

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bakemeister52 View Post
    Thanks Jameis1of1 for your comments and I agree about ESPN Max Kellerman political propaganda comments. ESPN and announcers of sports games have became very bias and I would rather watch the game with no volume.

    I have changed my view of protesting the flag as spitting on me because most of the players have never been in the military and don't really understand pride for there country. The protesting is like you said what really are they protesting. Let's play the game and not protest on the field but protest on your own time since you are who our kids look up to and want to model and what are you telling the kids by protesting.
    Well said!

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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 View Post
    Now, to some specific questions for the OP:
    1. The “you” is intentionally generic: primarily directed toward the view of the vast majority of white America. I can’t even count how many times people (rightfully) spoke out against the riots I brought up, and how many of them cited MLK’s non-violent actions while ignoring his quote that I brought up that could be considered to justify some cases of rioting. It's meant to ruffle the feathers a bit. It’s meant to make the reader look at themselves and truly examine their own thoughts and actions when it comes to everything that has led up to these protests. Apparently it succeeded.

    2. Everyone has their own reason for taking a knee because everyone has their own different experiences in life. As I also said later in the article I can’t say that I directly understand the plight of black Americans, but I support the response in drawing attention to an issue that affects them. I do understand that many have had a far different experience in their lives than I have, often related to nothing more than skin color. And if it happens repeatedly, they’re likely to have a strong response, such as the AmeriKKKa comments. If any of us were dealing with something heavily against us that seemed to be institutionalized and accepted by the majority, I think we would likely respond similarly. It’s not about hating America so much as drawing attention to an injustice in any legal way possible in an effort to change it.

    3. While whites killed by police are 3x more killings than blacks by police, this fails to differentiate why and how they were killed. How many of those whites killed were of the mentally-ill “suicide by cop” variety? How many of them were shot in the manner of John Crawford III who was simply moving a BB gun back to its appropriate place inside a Walmart? How many were like Eric Garner where the police served as judge, jury, and executioner over an incredibly minor crime? Lastly, the rate statistic would make sense as being equal if there were less than three times more whites than blacks in America. But based on the 2010-2015 American Community Survey, the racial makeup of the United States is nearly SIX times more whites than blacks (73.9% to 12.6%). If their populations were more even, then that 3:1 stat would mean something. Instead it displays the opposite: blacks are killed by police twice as often as whites. Those charts are therefore quite misleading due to the failure to take racial population percentage differences into consideration.

    4. Many of those tributes involved alteration of the uniform. As with any corporation, the NFL takes their branding very seriously. There are multi-billion-dollar contracts that they have to uphold when it comes to that and unless there is special permission granted for a team or the entire league, they aren’t going to jeopardize that. If the players were putting BLM decals or something like that on their uniform, I would be 100% in favor of fining. Had the Texans removed the logo from their helmets after their owner’s comments, the league would be completely justified in fining them. Actions are typically permitted, displays that change the physical branding are not. Sure, you can claim the protests can also affect multi-billion-dollar contracts, but puts the onus onto the sponsor to choose to remove their support, and not something that they could enforce in a court to terminate that contract. As a political libertarian (pro-freedom, pro-equal-opportunity, and pro-choice-in-all-aspects-of-life: more left on social issues, more right fiscally) I’m not here to argue left vs. right, so your “left-leaning” and “left-of-center” comments are moot.

    5. This is about the NFL, not whatever direction you’re trying to take this. Any abusers, whether sexual, physical, mental, whether of a child or an adult, man or woman, are violent criminals and there is no justification for it. Nothing with the protests is criminal. As with my comments in #4, once again turning this into a left vs. right issue is taking away from the central point. This is yet another strawman that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    6. So Christianity and protest are somehow incompatible? I think the many Christian players in the NFL who are taking a knee would disagree with that assertion. How many times in the Bible did people overlook those in need on the Sabbath (Luke 13)? Jesus healed on it-- and most would agree this is the right course of action even though religious leaders said this constitutes work and thus a violation of the Commandments. Could this be seen as a protest against the inconsistency of their ideals, much as Kaepernick started this as a protest against the inconsistency of the American ideal? Jesus wanted the Sabbath to be in its original intention; Kaepernick and others want true liberty and justice for all, as the flag should signify. I'm not trying to equate Kaepernick to Jesus, just trying to show that Christianity's top guy has some definite elements of protest in his actions. The cleansing of the temple, to boot. Christianity and protest are not incompatible, and just because some chose to lash out against Dylan for a change in his life should not be any sort of argument against citing his words in an area where it most certainly applies.

    7. This is again in reference to those who choose to willfully ignore the original intent of the protests and refuse to look at WHY they’re happening, and would rather just make an assumption of the worst possible reason for it. Unfortunately, as we see from the vehement reactions to them, that is a significant number of people. The fact that booing has gone on even when a knee was taken before the anthem and not during it seems to indicate this maybe isn't about their beloved song.

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    Last edited by *censored*; 10-31-2017 at 10:42 AM.

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  5. #14
    *censored* ... I'd still love to hear your reply to my above posts and questions ...

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  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 View Post
    *censored* ... I'd still love to hear your reply to my above posts and questions ...
    I responded ten days ago, individual point by individual point.

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  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by *censored* View Post
    1. The “you” is intentionally generic: primarily directed toward the view of the vast majority of white America. I can’t even count how many times people (rightfully) spoke out against the riots I brought up, and how many of them cited MLK’s non-violent actions while ignoring his quote that I brought up that could be considered to justify some cases of rioting. It's meant to ruffle the feathers a bit. It’s meant to make the reader look at themselves and truly examine their own thoughts and actions when it comes to everything that has led up to these protests. Apparently it succeeded.
    I wonder, in today's pc thought police culture if it's even okay to quote MLK anymore, now that the JFK files revealed he was holding massive sex orgies and the like all the time? Of course, since the media is basically ignoring revelations from the JFK files that don't fit their identity-politics agenda, who knows ...

    2. Everyone has their own reason for taking a knee because everyone has their own different experiences in life. As I also said later in the article I can’t say that I directly understand the plight of black Americans, but I support the response in drawing attention to an issue that affects them. I do understand that many have had a far different experience in their lives than I have, often related to nothing more than skin color. And if it happens repeatedly, they’re likely to have a strong response, such as the AmeriKKKa comments. If any of us were dealing with something heavily against us that seemed to be institutionalized and accepted by the majority, I think we would likely respond similarly. It’s not about hating America so much as drawing attention to an injustice in any legal way possible in an effort to change it.
    I can understand that ... though I think with the obvious anti-white sentiment currently in the media and the massive identity and race-based politics dominating America, there are going to be many whites that feel every bit as disenfranchised as various blacks currently do, in the future ... I wonder if a "White Lives Matter" or a "National Association for the Advancement of White People (NAAWP) or "White Entertainment Television (WET) will be popular in the future ... although since "Black Pride", "Brown Pride", "Asian Pride", Latino Pride" and even "Gay Pride" are all acceptable to the media but "White Pride" is immediately considered evil ... probably not.

    3. While whites killed by police are 3x more killings than blacks by police, this fails to differentiate why and how they were killed. How many of those whites killed were of the mentally-ill “suicide by cop” variety? How many of them were shot in the manner of John Crawford III who was simply moving a BB gun back to its appropriate place inside a Walmart? How many were like Eric Garner where the police served as judge, jury, and executioner over an incredibly minor crime? Lastly, the rate statistic would make sense as being equal if there were less than three times more whites than blacks in America. But based on the 2010-2015 American Community Survey, the racial makeup of the United States is nearly SIX times more whites than blacks (73.9% to 12.6%). If their populations were more even, then that 3:1 stat would mean something. Instead it displays the opposite: blacks are killed by police twice as often as whites. Those charts are therefore quite misleading due to the failure to take racial population percentage differences into consideration.
    You're cherry picking stats and using "what if" arguments that can't be proven.

    The last FBI stat I saw on arrests said that 2.44 times as many whites were arrested as blacks (6,214,197 to 2,549,655), which means that whites still suffered more deaths per arrest than blacks.

    You also seemed to completely ignore the first chart I posted which does examine relevant factors AND STILL shows that whites were killed by police at a higher rate than blacks when "not attacking when killed"!


    4. Many of those tributes involved alteration of the uniform. As with any corporation, the NFL takes their branding very seriously. There are multi-billion-dollar contracts that they have to uphold when it comes to that and unless there is special permission granted for a team or the entire league, they aren’t going to jeopardize that. If the players were putting BLM decals or something like that on their uniform, I would be 100% in favor of fining. Had the Texans removed the logo from their helmets after their owner’s comments, the league would be completely justified in fining them. Actions are typically permitted, displays that change the physical branding are not. Sure, you can claim the protests can also affect multi-billion-dollar contracts, but puts the onus onto the sponsor to choose to remove their support, and not something that they could enforce in a court to terminate that contract. As a political libertarian (pro-freedom, pro-equal-opportunity, and pro-choice-in-all-aspects-of-life: more left on social issues, more right fiscally) I’m not here to argue left vs. right, so your “left-leaning” and “left-of-center” comments are moot.
    I said the NFL and ESPN are left-leaning, not that you were ... my points are valid and I stand by them.

    5. This is about the NFL, not whatever direction you’re trying to take this. Any abusers, whether sexual, physical, mental, whether of a child or an adult, man or woman, are violent criminals and there is no justification for it. Nothing with the protests is criminal. As with my comments in #4, once again turning this into a left vs. right issue is taking away from the central point. This is yet another strawman that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
    There is no strawman ... you stated, "
    No one can ever advance in a positive direction by being unwilling to listen, to learn, to understand" and I completely disagree with that statement, simple as that.

    6. So Christianity and protest are somehow incompatible?
    I never said they were; why put words into my mouth?

    I think the many Christian players in the NFL who are taking a knee would disagree with that assertion. How many times in the Bible did people overlook those in need on the Sabbath (Luke 13)? Jesus healed on it-- and most would agree this is the right course of action even though religious leaders said this constitutes work and thus a violation of the Commandments. Could this be seen as a protest against the inconsistency of their ideals, much as Kaepernick started this as a protest against the inconsistency of the American ideal? Jesus wanted the Sabbath to be in its original intention; Kaepernick and others want true liberty and justice for all, as the flag should signify. I'm not trying to equate Kaepernick to Jesus, just trying to show that Christianity's top guy has some definite elements of protest in his actions. The cleansing of the temple, to boot. Christianity and protest are not incompatible, and just because some chose to lash out against Dylan for a change in his life should not be any sort of argument against citing his words in an area where it most certainly applies.
    I don't disagree with anything you said above, though I still stand by my initial statement. You simply read something into my statement that wasn't there ... I simply said Dylan's words cannot be used as a justification for every new idea or protest that comes down the pipe ... and I stand by that.

    7. This is again in reference to those who choose to willfully ignore the original intent of the protests and refuse to look at WHY they’re happening, and would rather just make an assumption of the worst possible reason for it. Unfortunately, as we see from the vehement reactions to them, that is a significant number of people. The fact that booing has gone on even when a knee was taken before the anthem and not during it seems to indicate this maybe isn't about their beloved song.
    I don't disagree with your above, more reasonable and logical statement ... but in your original article you were not as reasonable and logical and basically insinuated that ANYONE who disagreed with the Protests was ignorant and I simply don't believe that to be the case.

    All of the above said, thank you again for writing the article and even more so for taking the time to reply ... I love debate, especially when it's with someone who has done their homework and has enough intelligence to make solid points and debate like an adult ... so ... keep up the good work! I look forward to your next article :-)

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  8. #17
    The thing that bothers me is the uterly disrespect for the flag. As many on here I served in the Army for 25 years and I am shocked that the youth of this country are being taught such disrespecting antics by these crybaby millionaires. First off the military pays the NFL to have the National Anthem played at the beginning of the games so the players need to respect that and if they dont they need to stay in the tunnel til the Anthem is over. If these millionaire crybabies want to do something positive in the Black community do it with money not with these immature antics. I am all for 1st amendment rights as I fought for them but dont get it twisted this kneeling crap has nothing to do with that. Colin was the only one that explained why he was doing it and now he doesnt have a job but these other idiots just need to shut up and stand for the american flag. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

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  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sportsnutz1915 View Post
    The thing that bothers me is the uterly disrespect for the flag. As many on here I served in the Army for 25 years and I am shocked that the youth of this country are being taught such disrespecting antics by these crybaby millionaires. First off the military pays the NFL to have the National Anthem played at the beginning of the games so the players need to respect that and if they dont they need to stay in the tunnel til the Anthem is over. If these millionaire crybabies want to do something positive in the Black community do it with money not with these immature antics. I am all for 1st amendment rights as I fought for them but dont get it twisted this kneeling crap has nothing to do with that. Colin was the only one that explained why he was doing it and now he doesnt have a job but these other idiots just need to shut up and stand for the american flag. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
    I appreciate your sincere reply (even though you're a nonsensical Jameis-hater, who by the way, always stood with helmet on heart for the anthem and is very patriotic despite many of his teammates and the black community ripping him for not kneeling ... but he's a true alpha and doesn't care what people think which I love about him). However, I would add that it's NOT just "millionaire crybabies" that are spiking all the anti-American feelings ... it's the school system and mainstream media as well which is a real problem. Youngsters these days are basically taught to be ashamed of America's history and to be anti-patriotic and pro-globalism ... and main stream media serves to increase such anti-American, anti-patriotic and pro-globalist leanings ... at least that's how I see it and it's a real shame.

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  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sportsnutz1915 View Post
    If these millionaire crybabies want to do something positive in the Black community do it with money not with these immature antics.
    You mean like the million-plus dollars Kaepernick donated to various causes?

    Patrick Peterson's Foundation for Success and Patrick's Corner?

    J.J. Watt and Micheal Thomas putting in a lot toward Hurricane relief? FYI Thomas has done a LOT for a number of causes.

    Charles Johnson building affordable housing for seniors in South Carolina?

    Browns players working with Cleveland Police to help youth sports teams?

    Brandon Marshall (the linebacker) donating $200 per tackle to various charitable organizations?

    Chris Long donating his entire base salary to educational causes?

    Glover Quin holding benefit events for victims of domestic violence, donating water to the city of Flint, and raising money for his former high school?

    Are those not enough for you?

    And as I stated in the original article, you clearly are missing the entire point of the protests. Still.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jameis1of1 View Post
    Youngsters these days are basically taught to be ashamed of America's history and to be anti-patriotic and pro-globalism
    I wouldn't say that. Much of what is taught in public school history classes largely whitewashes our country's ills. We're not perfect, nor should we try to teach children that we are. That hits levels that are closer to indoctrination rather than education. Kids need to know that yeah, we've done some bad things, we've made some bad mistakes-- how can we make it right and make sure we don't repeat them? One of the biggest critiques I heard from a former co-worker was that Barack Obama doesn't believe in "American exceptionalism." I don't see why that's such a bad thing. For me, it goes back to the opening scene from the series The Newsroom (despite its statistical inaccuracies, the point is well-made)-- we aren't the greatest country on earth, and to continue in some misguided thinking that we are removes any hope of and any reason for future improvement.

    "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing that there is one."

    The worst thing we can do is to go around acting like we're superior to the rest of the world, whether we are or not, or whether we EVER were. The best thing we can do is to take an honest look at ourselves and ask what we can do better, and then to actually go to work on that. That goers for all aspects of life, from the macro-- the country-wide level-- on down to the micro-- the individual-person level. And until that happens, any talk of greatness is little more than jingoistic self-pleasure.

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  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by *censored* View Post
    Much of what is taught in public school history classes largely whitewashes our country's ills.

    True ... and much of what is taught also glorifies anti-Americanism and could certainly be said to be anti-patriotic.


    We're not perfect, nor should we try to teach children that we are. That hits levels that are closer to indoctrination rather than education. Kids need to know that yeah, we've done some bad things, we've made some bad mistakes-- how can we make it right and make sure we don't repeat them? One of the biggest critiques I heard from a former co-worker was that Barack Obama doesn't believe in "American exceptionalism." I don't see why that's such a bad thing.
    The biggest and most popular legitimate complaint I've ever heard about Obama, and I've heard it a lot, was simply that he was not "America first" and that he literally put other nations ahead of America ... this is one reason why Trump's "America First" viewpoint was so wildly popular. The leader of any country should put that country and it's citizens ahead of the citizens of any other country or any other country's government's wants.

    I think many Americans simply don't want America to turn into modern Germany, where everyone is ashamed of the past and has a massive guilt complex that leads the country itself to do present things that damage it and its citizens.


    For me, it goes back to the opening scene from the series The Newsroom (despite its statistical inaccuracies, the point is well-made)-- we aren't the greatest country on earth, and to continue in some misguided thinking that we are removes any hope of and any reason for future improvement.
    What is the "greatest country on earth"? Is there a single country on earth that has more of a legitimate claim to that title than America does? The concept of "American exceptionalism" is NOT merely an American idea, it's a world-wide idea that is believed and propagated by citizens of nearly every country ...

    "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing that there is one."
    I agree, bit inventing false narratives to push an agenda isn't the way to do that ... and nearly ALL of the current race-based politics is complete and utter nonsense ...

    The worst thing we can do is to go around acting like we're superior to the rest of the world, whether we are or not, or whether we EVER were.
    Why? Should LeBron pretend he's no better a basketball player than Iman Shumpert? Nearly the entire world begs for America's help in one way or another; why shouldn't America be confident in its standing as a world super power?

    The best thing we can do is to take an honest look at ourselves and ask what we can do better, and then to actually go to work on that.

    That would certainly be advisable for all countries, yes.


    That goers for all aspects of life, from the macro-- the country-wide level-- on down to the micro-- the individual-person level. And until that happens, any talk of greatness is little more than jingoistic self-pleasure.
    I don't disagree with your former sentence above, but I'm not sure I agree with the latter sentence as the "greatness" of America is a world-wide concept that is believed and promoted by citizens - and many times even governments - of nearly every country on earth, rather than a mere "American idea".

    I honestly think that just as a lot of white folks are put off by the fact that "Black pride", "Brown pride", "Latino pride" and even "Gay pride" are celebrated by the main stream media, "white pride" is demonized ... and that likewise, many patriotic Americans are put off by the fact that the Left and the main stream media seem to wilfully try to glamorize and praise other nations and cultures while at the same time trying to demonize American history and European culture.

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